Looking ahead

[jono25]

If the year pans out as I think it will, we will be somewhere between 10-12 on the ladder. We will have some ok players as potential trade bait eg Walker, Hampson (depends on offer, still think he can be a star), Houlihan, Grigg etc.

Not popular but I also think we should consider trading Gibbs for the right price.

It is time to think about exactly who we could make a big play for in trade week or through the draft. The obvious missing links are a gun forward and a great defender.

In terms of the great defender if it was at all possible I would be targetting Tayte Pears. I was so impressed with him last night - he was unbelievable. I must add I think Jamison is capable of being in the top 5 FBs in the league and Bower will be the best CHB in 3 years time (injuries permitting). But adding someone of the class of Pears would add a new dimension to our defence.

As a forward target the obvious is Roughead. If that is not possible (and it is unlikely at best) then I think we need to look very closely at someone like Trengove from Port. He will be a very very good player in 3-4 years time.

Why trade Gibbs? I think he is a great player but we have a lot of great finishers in Judd, Murphy, Simpson, Lucas (will be a star) etc. You have to give something big to get something big and trading Gibbs and Hampson may be a way of getting a Pears, Trengove and another hard bodied mid to the club.

Realistically until we get a quality tagger (and we may be able to develop someone like Russell or Browne in this role), another great defender (sorry but I don't think Austin is it) and a key forward to go with Henderson, we can't win 17.

It is time to make the hard cuts both in the coaches box and the playing list.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

It shows a real lack of knowledge of the game when supporters think that 1 match can change you from an ok team, into a great team, or from a good team, into the worst in the comp, or from a top 4 team, to a bottom 4 team etc.

Our inability to beat the Bombers doesn't change the fact that we are better, or at least on par with 8 other teams in the competition (and thats if you want to take a harsh view)

Unless you are going to tell me that Freo are suddenly a better team than us

If we had smashed the Bombers last night, and Gibbs was BOG, you would be saying how lucky we are to have him, and that we can make finals this year.

How about we just put all our focus into winning next week, instead of giving up on the season after 3 rounds. We will hopefully get Judd and Bower back, and the Crows aren't in any better form than us. If we can come away with a 2-2 record, we will be on track, albeit with a shaky start.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

It shows a real lack of knowledge of the game when supporters think that 1 match can change you from an ok team, into a great team, or from a good team, into the worst in the comp, or from a top 4 team, to a bottom 4 team etc.

Our inability to beat the Bombers doesn't change the fact that we are better, or at least on par with 8 other teams in the competition (and thats if you want to take a harsh view)

Unless you are going to tell me that Freo are suddenly a better team than us

If we had smashed the Bombers last night, and Gibbs was BOG, you would be saying how lucky we are to have him, and that we can make finals this year.

How about we just put all our focus into winning next week, instead of giving up on the season after 3 rounds. We will hopefully get Judd and Bower back, and the Crows aren't in any better form than us. If we can come away with a 2-2 record, we will be on track, albeit with a shaky start.

Dreaming....

Crows will cast their net and we will get caught in it like a school of tuna....

We wont make the eight.. no matter what players are playing and not playing.
Development is sub standard/
Structures are no existent.
Gameplan is a dogs breakfast.

Thats what will count.

We lack in those areas... 10th to 13th..

 

[thylacine60]

It shows a real lack of knowledge of the game when supporters think that 1 match can change you from an ok team, into a great team, or from a good team, into the worst in the comp, or from a top 4 team, to a bottom 4 team etc.

Our inability to beat the Bombers doesn't change the fact that we are better, or at least on par with 8 other teams in the competition (and thats if you want to take a harsh view)

Unless you are going to tell me that Freo are suddenly a better team than us

If we had smashed the Bombers last night, and Gibbs was BOG, you would be saying how lucky we are to have him, and that we can make finals this year.

How about we just put all our focus into winning next week, instead of giving up on the season after 3 rounds. We will hopefully get Judd and Bower back, and the Crows aren't in any better form than us. If we can come away with a 2-2 record, we will be on track, albeit with a shaky start.

Pie in the Sky stuff. I'm done with 'if' and currently yes, Freo are a much better team than us.

 

[jono25]

It shows a real lack of knowledge of the game when supporters think that 1 match can change you from an ok team, into a great team, or from a good team, into the worst in the comp, or from a top 4 team, to a bottom 4 team etc.

Our inability to beat the Bombers doesn't change the fact that we are better, or at least on par with 8 other teams in the competition (and thats if you want to take a harsh view)

Unless you are going to tell me that Freo are suddenly a better team than us

If we had smashed the Bombers last night, and Gibbs was BOG, you would be saying how lucky we are to have him, and that we can make finals this year.

How about we just put all our focus into winning next week, instead of giving up on the season after 3 rounds. We will hopefully get Judd and Bower back, and the Crows aren't in any better form than us. If we can come away with a 2-2 record, we will be on track, albeit with a shaky start.

Please don't try to verbalise me - it doesn't win you an argument. I have never been taken in by Gibbs the way others have. I see a lot of potential and he has great 5-10 minute patches but I am yet to see the signs that he will become an A grade player year in year out.

I have said since we traded Fev that finals are unlikely and we would finish anywhere from 7-12. Missing finals was acceptable to me as we just lost a 90 goal a year FF - one step backwards to take three steps forward in the future. What I can't tolerate is the lack of a game plan, the lack of basic skills and the lack of intensity and leadership from this group, starting with the coach.

Yes one loss does not make us a bad team but the trouble is I don't see the structure and the base to make us a great team. I will happily put my football knowledge against yours anytime sunshine. Making excuses year after year shows you to be someone who finds defeat acceptable. I cut from the old Carlton cloth of anything but a flag is failure.

You don't change your club or list if you have the fundamentals right. I don't believe we have the fundamentals right hence why I seek massive change.

I would hope more than anything that Ratts, Gibbs etc prove me wrong, come out and have a blinder next week, push forward and finish in the finals or thereabouts using a distinct game plan. Would be very happy to come on here and say I was 1000% wrong - nothing would make me happier. But the trouble is I can't see that happening.

As for a few tweaks making a cultural change - no better eg than Leigh Matthews or Bomber Thompson. The Lions were a good side from 96 onwards (albeit some bad years) but LM came and turned them into a great side by focusing on building the basics into a complete game plan.

Ditto Bomber Thompson who did not get the sack but changed the way he fundamentally prepared and dealt with his playing group.

5 premierships from from two teams who would otherwise have been good teams but never premiers.

The likes of you would be happy being a good team but never premiers. For me it is be the best or die trying. Anything but a flag is failure.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

Pie in the Sky stuff. I'm done with 'if' and currently yes, Freo are a much better team than us.

That's a very shortsighted view in terms of looking at things.

 

[jono25]

If I was President of the CFC I would change the culture of the club by implementing each of the following on Monday morning:

1. A drinking ban for all of the year except for the 8 week player break and one week over Christmas. Even then no more than 3 drinks in one 24 hour period. Alcohol does not aid recovery, leads to off field incidents and when players are paid 200k plus in their early 20s they should be doing everything they can to get the best out of their body. That ban applies to the President, the Coach and other key staff. If you don't like it - go to another club. I note when the Lions won in 01 it was on the back of a drinking ban that was gradually lifted as the culture of the group was brought under control. A similar thing could happen over time. Right now we have to many piss heads.

2. Mandatory weekly boxing and wrestling sessions for all players. Get some toughness in the squad, if we lose a few to injury in the short term tough. We aren't winning a flag this year or next.

3. A three times weekly "football skills" lecture series. Bring in past greats and guest lecturers to go through things like tactics, nutrition etc. Our guys need to be taught the academics of football. Obviously make this as practical as possible. Also go into the history of the club - they should be taught to live and breathe Carlton.

4. 5 times a week skills session. You walk, eat, sleep and shit with a football in your hands. Back to basics on kicking, handpassing etc. No excuses.

5. Each player would be linked to a specific primary school in the area. Like the old "adopt a cop" scheme. The players go to the school every few weeks and talk with the kids, go to watch some of their junior games etc. Get them re-understanding the passion of the average child footy fan. This gets lost in this professional era.

Swann is a great CEO - nothing to change there.

But the culture of the club needs changing - that is the Presidents job.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

If you have no faith in the team then that's your prerogative.

What makes your opinion so great, as that you need to start a thread declaring where we will finish. Oh wait, I see, you use terms like 'sunshine', and suggest really insightful and compelling things such as we should go after a forward like Roughead if we want to have the best opportunity to win a premiership...

The likes of you would be happy being a good team but never premiers. For me it is be the best or die trying. Anything but a flag is failure.

Missing finals was acceptable to me

Sorry, which one of us is more readily willing to accept mediocrity?

 

[Blues_FC]

It shows a real lack of knowledge of the game when supporters think that 1 match can change you from an ok team, into a great team, or from a good team, into the worst in the comp, or from a top 4 team, to a bottom 4 team etc.

Our inability to beat the Bombers doesn't change the fact that we are better, or at least on par with 8 other teams in the competition (and thats if you want to take a harsh view)

Unless you are going to tell me that Freo are suddenly a better team than us

If we had smashed the Bombers last night, and Gibbs was BOG, you would be saying how lucky we are to have him, and that we can make finals this year.

How about we just put all our focus into winning next week, instead of giving up on the season after 3 rounds. We will hopefully get Judd and Bower back, and the Crows aren't in any better form than us. If we can come away with a 2-2 record, we will be on track, albeit with a shaky start.

Going by performances so far this year, Freo are definitely better than us. There's no question about that.

 

[jono25]

If you have no faith in the team then that's your prerogative.

What makes your opinion so great, as that you need to start a thread declaring where we will finish. Oh wait, I see, you use terms like 'sunshine', and suggest really insightful and compelling things such as we should go after a forward like Roughead if we want to have the best opportunity to win a premiership...




Sorry, which one of us is more readily willing to accept mediocrity?

Again you make a crash statement and rather than support it you back away and come back with something even more stupid.

What makes me think I am so important to make a new thread? Well it is a footy forum for discussion and when something requires a new topic one makes a new thread because I want other fans views. Do you understand the concept of a footy forum?

As for your comment re me saying missing finals is ok - do you understand you can't win a flag ever year? Do you understand why the club traded Fev (a decision I didn't agree with but have accepted)? It was to set a culture - other steps need to be taken to set that culture. What would you prefer - finish 7th this year, 4th in 2011 and 4th in 2012 OR 10th this year, 6th in 2011 and 1st in 2012?

If we need to go back a year to win a flag - yep I will miss finals that year if it makes us closer to 17.

You aren't a sharp one are you? I do need some air in my tyres and my windows wiped - what can I get for a 20?

 

[blue gunslinger]

If I was President of the CFC I would change the culture of the club by implementing each of the following on Monday morning:

1. A drinking ban for all of the year except for the 8 week player break and one week over Christmas. Even then no more than 3 drinks in one 24 hour period. Alcohol does not aid recovery, leads to off field incidents and when players are paid 200k plus in their early 20s they should be doing everything they can to get the best out of their body. That ban applies to the President, the Coach and other key staff. If you don't like it - go to another club. I note when the Lions won in 01 it was on the back of a drinking ban that was gradually lifted as the culture of the group was brought under control. A similar thing could happen over time. Right now we have to many piss heads.

2. Mandatory weekly boxing and wrestling sessions for all players. Get some toughness in the squad, if we lose a few to injury in the short term tough. We aren't winning a flag this year or next.

3. A three times weekly "football skills" lecture series. Bring in past greats and guest lecturers to go through things like tactics, nutrition etc. Our guys need to be taught the academics of football. Obviously make this as practical as possible. Also go into the history of the club - they should be taught to live and breathe Carlton.

4. 5 times a week skills session. You walk, eat, sleep and shit with a football in your hands. Back to basics on kicking, handpassing etc. No excuses.

5. Each player would be linked to a specific primary school in the area. Like the old "adopt a cop" scheme. The players go to the school every few weeks and talk with the kids, go to watch some of their junior games etc. Get them re-understanding the passion of the average child footy fan. This gets lost in this professional era.

Swann is a great CEO - nothing to change there.

But the culture of the club needs changing - that is the Presidents job.

boxing is used more as a Cardio workout - not for toughness

 

[CrippsonBlue]

Again you make a crash statement and rather than support it you back away and come back with something even more stupid.

Support what exactly?

You seem to think there is a debate happening here.

You thread is a rant - it gave no insightful comments or information for which to debate about.

I've given it more attention than it deserves.

Perhaps if I was a little more sharp like you, and less of a sunshine, I could have imagined a point or purpose to this thread somewhere in the op...

 

[thylacine60]

That's a very shortsighted view in terms of looking at things.

What does that even mean? You suggested we are a better team than Fremantle, I suggested otherwise. What has short or long sightedness have to do with it? Did you see what Freo did to a stronger Essendon last week? Right now the Dockers would maul us by 10 goals.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

What does that even mean? You suggested we are a better team than Fremantle, I suggested otherwise. What has short or long sightedness have to do with it? Did you see what Freo did to a stronger Essendon last week? Right now the Dockers would maul us by 10 goals.

It is shortsighted to claim a team is better, on the back of 2 (or 3) rounds.

If the Crows get beaten today, it doesn't make us a better team than them.

We played finals last year, while Freo were a long way off.

Freo clearly have the better form at the moment - it doesn't make them the better team. (to suggest form is the basis in determining the better team is certainly shortsighted)

They have a long way to go before proving that.

Did you see what Freo did to a stronger Essendon last week? Right now the Dockers would maul us by 10 goals.

When has footy ever worked this way - come on, that is ridiculous logic.

If we continue to play with no intensity like we did last night, a lot of teams will beat us by 10 goals.

We won't dish that every week however.

 

[jono25]

Support what exactly?

You seem to think there is a debate happening here.

You thread is a rant - it gave no insightful comments or information for which to debate about.

I've given it more attention than it deserves.

Perhaps if I was a little more sharp like you, and less of a sunshine, I could have imagined a point or purpose to this thread somewhere in the op...

No it is not a rant. It is an attempt to look at our list and assess what we need and what we may need to give up to get it.

If you don't want to take the time to have a good look at our list or don't know enough about other teams to constructively suggest players we may target then why bother to respond? Unless of course you just like seeing your own posts and think trying to have a crack at someone makes you a big man. Think again.

 

[blues4flag]

What does that even mean? You suggested we are a better team than Fremantle, I suggested otherwise. What has short or long sightedness have to do with it? Did you see what Freo did to a stronger Essendon last week? Right now the Dockers would maul us by 10 goals.

Because we got done by Essendon yet again after smashing Richmond in round 1 and losing due to inaccuracy and one of the most dominant individual performances I've ever seen last week?

We lost by 69 points to Essendon in round 13 last year. We then went on to win 6 of our next 7 games.

While our inability to play well against the Bombers is infuriating, it isn't indicative of where we are at as a team.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Indicative that the fans are getting sick and tired of crap performances by us individually and collectively

 

[blues4flag]

Indicative that the fans are getting sick and tired of crap performances by us individually and collectively

You mean arguably a sole crap performance collectively?

While a few individuals were disappointing against Brisbane I thought we played pretty well against them. Were playing interstate against the strongest forward duo in the league down a key defender. Had more shots on goals and the difference between the teams in the end was a brilliant performance by Brown.

 

[thylacine60]

Because we got done by Essendon yet again after smashing Richmond in round 1 and losing due to inaccuracy and one of the most dominant individual performances I've ever seen last week?

We lost by 69 points to Essendon in round 13 last year. We then went on to win 6 of our next 7 games.

While our inability to play well against the Bombers is infuriating, it isn't indicative of where we are at as a team.

Freo are still performing better than us. Forget your 'last night was just an aberration' take on things.

 

[blue gunslinger]

You mean arguably a sole crap performance collectively?

While a few individuals were disappointing against Brisbane I thought we played pretty well against them. Were playing interstate against the strongest forward duo in the league down a key defender. Had more shots on goals and the difference between the teams in the end was a brilliant performance by Brown.

James Brown?

 

[ESKIE]

If I was President of the CFC I would change the culture of the club by implementing each of the following on Monday morning:

1. A drinking ban for all of the year except for the 8 week player break and one week over Christmas. Even then no more than 3 drinks in one 24 hour period. Alcohol does not aid recovery, leads to off field incidents and when players are paid 200k plus in their early 20s they should be doing everything they can to get the best out of their body. That ban applies to the President, the Coach and other key staff. If you don't like it - go to another club. I note when the Lions won in 01 it was on the back of a drinking ban that was gradually lifted as the culture of the group was brought under control. A similar thing could happen over time. Right now we have to many piss heads.

2. Mandatory weekly boxing and wrestling sessions for all players. Get some toughness in the squad, if we lose a few to injury in the short term tough. We aren't winning a flag this year or next.

3. A three times weekly "football skills" lecture series. Bring in past greats and guest lecturers to go through things like tactics, nutrition etc. Our guys need to be taught the academics of football. Obviously make this as practical as possible. Also go into the history of the club - they should be taught to live and breathe Carlton.

4. 5 times a week skills session. You walk, eat, sleep and shit with a football in your hands. Back to basics on kicking, handpassing etc. No excuses.

5. Each player would be linked to a specific primary school in the area. Like the old "adopt a cop" scheme. The players go to the school every few weeks and talk with the kids, go to watch some of their junior games etc. Get them re-understanding the passion of the average child footy fan. This gets lost in this professional era.

Swann is a great CEO - nothing to change there.

But the culture of the club needs changing - that is the Presidents job.

Yep, I agree with all of it.

They all looked like they were in lah lah land lasat night, mostly the coach, that rabbit in the head lights look is not good.

A truly pathetic effort last night, by every individual involved, to me there's zero leadership, I like the idea of the history of the club, get some bloody passion for the jumper, get say, Big Nick in there with his steely stare and tell them what passion and pride is all about.

No excuses for going backward this year, none.

 

[blues4flag]

Freo are still performing better than us. Forget your 'last night was just an aberration' take on things.

Freo are performing better than us at the moment but I'll keep going with my 'last night was just an aberration' take on things because everything points to it being just that.

Not that such a performance is ever acceptable but I'm not forecasting ruin just yet.

 

[Mr.Kennedy]

If the year pans out as I think it will, we will be somewhere between 10-12 on the ladder. We will have some ok players as potential trade bait eg Walker, Hampson (depends on offer, still think he can be a star), Houlihan, Grigg etc.

Not popular but I also think we should consider trading Gibbs for the right price.

It is time to think about exactly who we could make a big play for in trade week or through the draft. The obvious missing links are a gun forward and a great defender.

In terms of the great defender if it was at all possible I would be targetting Tayte Pears. I was so impressed with him last night - he was unbelievable. I must add I think Jamison is capable of being in the top 5 FBs in the league and Bower will be the best CHB in 3 years time (injuries permitting). But adding someone of the class of Pears would add a new dimension to our defence.

As a forward target the obvious is Roughead. If that is not possible (and it is unlikely at best) then I think we need to look very closely at someone like Trengove from Port. He will be a very very good player in 3-4 years time.

Why trade Gibbs? I think he is a great player but we have a lot of great finishers in Judd, Murphy, Simpson, Lucas (will be a star) etc. You have to give something big to get something big and trading Gibbs and Hampson may be a way of getting a Pears, Trengove and another hard bodied mid to the club.

Realistically until we get a quality tagger (and we may be able to develop someone like Russell or Browne in this role), another great defender (sorry but I don't think Austin is it) and a key forward to go with Henderson, we can't win 17.

It is time to make the hard cuts both in the coaches box and the playing list.

Sorry, how amongst that slop we served up did you see Pears as impressive. He didn't nor did Essendon have to really do anything except receive our turnovers, wait for the umpires to give them ridiculous free kicks and watch us spray our shots at goal.

 

[starchamber]

Going by performances so far this year, Freo are definitely better than us. There's no question about that.

Freo may win all home games they do that they in the finals.

 

[jono25]

Sorry, how amongst that slop we served up did you see Pears as impressive. He didn't nor did Essendon have to really do anything except receive our turnovers, wait for the umpires to give them ridiculous free kicks and watch us spray our shots at goal.

Go back and watch the game again in the cold light of day as I did this morning. Watch Pears spoiling work. Watch his body work. Watch his positioning. Pure class. If you can't see that you know stuff all about footy mate.