Multiplat - Loot Boxes, Gambling or Not? | BigFooty

Multiplat Loot Boxes, Gambling or Not?

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by quotemokc, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. quotemokc

    quotemokc Brownlow Medallist

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    I am sure most people are aware of the huge uproar going on towards EA and them having loot boxes in their full price game Battlefront 2.

    It seems that the gaming community is getting fed up with them in being in every game as a way to milk as much money from the consumer as possible.

    One tact is that they (the community) are pointing to them as a source of gambling aimed at children. (and others)

    Battlefront & Overwatch's Loot Boxes Under Investigation In Belgium

    https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/11/battlefront-overwatchs-loot-boxes-under-investigation-in-belgium/

    So many games have them now, it used to be a standard practice for free or cheap games to have them as purely cosmetic options for those dedicated enough to the game to buy as they wish. But now you cannot escape them and Battlefront 2 has almost made them a must buy in order to be competitive in the game.

    I have spent hundreds on League of Legends since 2009 on skins I really wanted and that is fine as it was my choice and I knew exactly what I was purchasing.

    I don't buy loot crates with real money. I have on occasion bought keys to open them in some games which is just as bad but as a whole I have probably spent less than $100 on them over the last couple of years. But once again these are for cosmetic purposes.

    I don't even want to touch the subject of paying to progress as is the entire model of almost all mobile apps as you pretty much hit a brick wall until you start spending. (Candy Crush, Clash of Clans etc)

    But should they be considered a source of gambling? I have read that buying loot crates is no different to say buying a packet of Pokemon cards that could have anything in it and kids have been buying them forever. Is that different because that is the entire purpose of Pokemon cards?
     

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  2. GeelongFTW

    GeelongFTW Norm Smith Medallist

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    Because you are guarnteed to get something i dont think it could be classed as gambling.
     
  3. Gralin

    Gralin Moderator

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    if you can spend money to get them then yes it is

    it's funny there are plenty of mobile games, mostly made in Asia that use this kind of mechanic, summons, loot boxes, etc, they don't post the odds, though China recently changed the law so in China they have to post the odds

    It's definitely gambling when you can pay
     
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  4. GeelongFTW

    GeelongFTW Norm Smith Medallist

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    Are you sure? I mean consider a claw machine. You might get something or you might not>gambling

    Purchase loot crate> collect stuff (even if it aint want you want)
     
  5. Gralin

    Gralin Moderator

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    Yeah I'm sure

    The whole premise is there is a range of items from trash to gold, free ones get you hooked, when you open one and get a good item it feels like a win its like when the pokies make that noise or your horse wings etc

    If you get excited about opening a loot box because you might win then its like gambling, once they add in the you can buy them it is 100% gambling

    the only difference is that you are paying money for imaginary shit that you don't own
     
  6. GeelongFTW

    GeelongFTW Norm Smith Medallist

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    Id make it so you know exactly what youre buying ala titanfall 2.
     
  7. beta_condition

    beta_condition Norm Smith Medallist

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    You're buying an item with an unknown outcome(with weighted results) it's most certainly gambling and a disgusting practice.
     
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  8. quotemokc

    quotemokc Brownlow Medallist

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    Is it bad if gambling is in games with in game currency or only if it forces people to spend real money or is it irrelevant?

    All (I think) the Pokemon games have the casino corners with slot machines that you can gamble all your coins away on.

    Is that an issue as well or just a game mechanic?
     
  9. 00Stinger

    00Stinger Duel Group 1 winner

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    Gambling is more buying packs of cards on Fifa, Madden ext

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
     
  10. Gralin

    Gralin Moderator

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    there is the argument that in game gambling without real currency is just training people for the real thing, ala lollies that looked like ciggies, ah fads

    you have all these kids toys now that are blind sales with rare items, like the old collectors cards, pokemon etc, the question is whether these sorts of things indoctrinate people into gambling behavior, they certainly seem to be a good way to make money because people are gambling for items not cash
     
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  11. Gralin

    Gralin Moderator

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    loot boxes that you buy and card packs that you buy are the exact same thing
     
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  12. quotemokc

    quotemokc Brownlow Medallist

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    I guess a slight difference is physical vs digital?

    If League Of Legends shut down tomorrow I won't be getting my money back.
     
  13. Gralin

    Gralin Moderator

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    i was talking about virtual card packs like Madden Ultimate Team in response to another post

    yes if you buy physical collectors cards you could end up with something worth money that you can sell, plenty of people sell virtual objects for money against the terms of service
     
  14. Donakebab

    Donakebab Premium Gold

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    For mine, purely cosmetic crates are fine, but **** pay to win bullshit off right now. EA is a cancer and after the truly awful number they have done to SW:BF2, after butchering the first with a rag tag empty shell of a game, I will be actively avoid any games they or any studio under their umbrella release.
     
  15. Knighta21

    Knighta21 Premiership Player

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    Yep, Would be fine if they had an in game currency that you get for playing the game and allowed loot boxes to get "Cosmetic" items from that currency but it's so bad and while people continue to put real money in, why would they stop?
     
  16. Runk

    Runk Brownlow Medallist

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    Nailed it.
     
  17. UnitedWarrior93

    UnitedWarrior93 Brownlow Medallist

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    Yep, long gone are the days where you pay $70 for a game and that’s it, you just play the game after that. Theres just so much more to games after you spend that initial $70 nowadays it’s a joke.

    I know a mate who is obsessed with Ultimate team on FIFA, and ended up spending nearly $1k on FIFA 17 with those card packs, he couldn’t stop!!

    As long as people like him are pumping money in, it won’t stop these companies doing it.
     
  18. fpcookie

    fpcookie Premiership Player

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    It's a bit of grey area to me. But it's definitely programmed to trigger the brain in the same way as gambling does so it's very similar.

    I'm not really against gambling in general so I'm not really against lootboxes (Overwatch for example) but I think the Pay2Win mechanic in a full priced multiplayer game is a ******* joke and I'd never play a game with that mechanic.
     
  19. Dannnnnnnnnn

    Dannnnnnnnnn Moderator

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    It makes use of the same reward pathways and the same patterns of use that lead to addiction.

    Whether it's "gambling" or not is a meaningless, semantic argument. The more poignant point is whether it preys on the vulnerable in a way that is unbecoming to video games. I would argue that it is.
     
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  20. Gralin

    Gralin Moderator

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    There are people out there that have a lot of money and will pump it into games to be the best, I'm talking over $100k on pay to win gambling

    Add to that the average bloke who might do the $5-500 transaction and it's no wonder companies are doing it.

    It needs to be regulated they have a loop hole at the moment.

    I have no issue with the optional new content stuff, extra cars, tracks, areas that you can buy but don't need to experience the core game you bought.

    It's another breason single player games are becoming rarer, paytowin works best in multiplayer.

    Company can say you don't have to pay to play but when you keep getting ganked by those that do you either quit or join the arms race

    It's why I prefer single player games
     
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  21. MightyTiger

    MightyTiger Norm Smith Medallist

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    It's most definitely gambling, even pokie machines give a return each spin, it's the same thing as loot boxes, CS GO is the worst imo that I've come across, CS GO was recently released in China and because of there laws they had to release the odds of each box, apparently to get a rare item it is a less then 1% chance, yes that's right, less then 1% chance to get a rare item, so we're talking a knife skin or gloves, those types of odds are absolutely pathetic but yet companies still get away with it. Valve is currently being sued by a group of people for this micro transaction rubbish, not sure how the lawsuit is going but hopefully something comes of it and companies get rid of micro transactions all together.

    Found the odds in an article.

    Mil-spec to Restricted is 1:5

    Mil-spec to Classified is 1:25

    Mil-spec to Covert is 1:125

    Mil-spec to Knife/Glove is 2:625

    Normal to StatTrak is 1:10

    Based off calculations:

    Rarity%
    Mil-spec 79.92%
    Restricted 15.98%
    Classified 3.2%
    Covert 0.64%
    Knife/Glove 0.26%

    And for those that don't know about the prices, it's $2.50 USD to buy a key to open a case, so it's roughly about $3 AUD to open a case, and going by these numbers to get a rare item we'd need to spend roughly almost $2000 to get a rare item, and the rare item could be worth $40-50 or it could be worth thousands depending on the type of skin you get, and those numbers don't include the cases, some cases themselves prices range from $0.1C to $10 USD a case.

    Somebody tell me this isn't robbery and gambling, but because it's a virtual item these companies can get away with it, yet Steam has its own market that involves real money, I don't know how they're allowed to get away with it but they do. Bring back the days of spending 70$ on a game and getting the full game, no dlcs no season passes no micro transactions no nothing, just a game and endless hours of fun.
     
  22. beta_condition

    beta_condition Norm Smith Medallist

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    These type of lootboxes aren't the real problem, you can argue the damaging effects of the practice sure but it's minor compared to when game companies specifically developed them into the core of the game. There's a huge difference between spending money on the possibility to get rare item which is purely cosmetic and has real life trade value compared to buying the chance to unlock content. Lets not even get started that companies now monitor you buying habits and specifically target to your weaknesses.

    Locking content on a disc was bad enough when Capcom started releasing dlc on disc back in like 2008 but now we're at a point where content is sliced into lootboxes where even if you spend money you're not guaranteed to get the content which was developed along side the game which should be released with the main product.

    NO there's plenty of good examples of dlc not only bringing a product but to life but expending it's universe and the perception of the original product. Just because large amounts of companies abuse the original idea of dlc doesn't mean it's flawed. Bloodborne is the perfect example of dlc done right, clearly material produced after the original game which expanded upon the games lore, it was a product worthy of buying on it's own. Support the companies which do it right and boycott the ones which don't. As for season passes don't buy them, just like preordering don't ******* do it.
     
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  23. Bob Cobb

    Bob Cobb Premium Gold

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    It’s a disgrace.
     
  24. ioppolo

    ioppolo Brownlow Medallist

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    Just boycott them. Will speak louder than any investigation.
     
  25. nahnah

    nahnah Brownlow Medallist

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    I refuse to pay for micro transactions now, they can get ****** if the game isn’t enjoyable without it then I just won’t play it.
     
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