Universal Love Holding Faith in Stephen Wells and Mackie (a.k.a. "In Wells We Trust")

[Biggy_Boy]

Look i actually agree with a lot of the rest of what you have posted on BF today (cant believe i am saying that) but the overpaying for danger is a bit hilarious. When you consider hawthorn just paid a 2017 1st rounder + picks 23 36 + 2017 2nd rounder for a bloke who hasnt played in 2 years picks 9 and 28 for an elite brownlow winner is very cheap.

Was JOM a free agent?

 

[Willo_]

Horrific trade period. We deserve some answers.

We won't get any

CatsMedia are probably preparing videos and a podcast as we speak talking up 'how well we have done'

 

[Seeds]

I don't post on here because I can't stand all the negativity.

Firstly, if anyone thinks Caddy was becoming a quality player I'd like you to show me 5 games where he showed an A grade ability. He bursts a pack once a fortnight and kicks the occasional goal. He's behind Joel, Danger, Scooter, Menegola, Guthrie, Duncan and even Blicavs. They play him at half forward. Motlop, Lang, Cockatoo, Gregson, and McCarthy all play that role better. What were supposed to do with Caddy? Hope he got better? Pick 24 is good!

We got rid of Smedts. That is good. We got Tuohy. Also good. We dropped pick 12-18 for 19-24. That was a good deal.

Kersten was okay. Nothing more than that.

Vardy can't get on the park.

If you write up a best 22 can you fit Caddy in the middle??? Because that's where he wants to play and plays his best. His best isn't near our best 4. Does Tuohy fit in? Straight away. Does Kersten fit in? Maybe for balance. Maybe.

Do we want to pay 800K for Deledio? He's not worth that. He's a wonderful player, but Thurlow will be our wonderful player.

We were missing picks because of the quality we brought in last season.

Now we don't trust Wells?

Are you kidding me?! Look at the draft he brought in Gregson and look who was picked before that kid.

The lack of faith in our club is disgusting. It's not in Scott or Wells. It's the club. From the top down. Have faith in this brilliant establishment.

If pick 24 doesn't turn out to be an absolute gem in years to come I'll be surprised.

But for the love of God what an overreaction.

Gees you don't might giving a boot in the backside to players leaving. Tone down the negativity a tad and think happy thoughts. Rainbows, lollipops, the sound of rain on a tin roof. It's all good.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Was JOM a free agent?

Irrelevant when the crows could and were prepared to match any offer up to and including 1.2mil a year.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

We won't get any

CatsMedia are probably preparing videos and a podcast as we speak talking up 'how well we have done'

They seemed to skim over the Caddy deal pretty quickly in the trade wrap-up video. Must be hard for them, trying to put a positive spin on something I'm sure they're all baffled about.

 

[ATSAM]

That sums up our list management over the last few years to be honest.

But fits with Stephen Hockings speech about recruiting individuals and then thinking about building a team

 

[Mooneyman]

We traded list cloggers and a half forward flank. The way people are talking you would think we traded Selwood, Dangerfield and Hawkins.

When did Caddy become this absolute superstar, i must have missed all those consistent games he played.....

And whos to say Wells is a marshmallow at trade time? Theres probably a number of requested deals he refuses that go un reported.

The club has done pretty well for the last 10 years.

 

[Frank Bunn]

selwood was a free agent - pretty simple that one
smith - was playing in the ressies in qld and not wanted
Henderson - for his age was ok, but given what caddy went for we paid overs for his record at the time
Dangerfield- given the jom trade we got cheap, but not a steal

however whilst on topic
- got unders for bundy
-paid massive MASSIVE overs for clark
- got unders for kersten, vardy, walker, jj
- paid overs for hmac (we actually paid him an inflated salary)

and do I need to go go on

talent that has surprised
- menzel (and he was recruited 8 years ago)
- blitz (and that was Guthrie's dad's pick)
and then I hear crickets

It's never going to be 100% because recruiting is about taking calculated risks but last years trade period has to go down as HUGE success. We targeted players to address our shortcomings and got them all - a ruckman, an elite clearance player, a KPD to replace Rivers, and a tagger. You can argue the toss about overs/unders but we went for 4 specific players, signed them all, and they improved our team.

We weren't left with much in the draft but we still picked up Menegola at pick 66 and Ruggles in the rookie draft, who have both shown they can play good AFL standard.

Previous years have seen us recruit the following players as very good value picks.

Guthrie pick 23
Kolo pick 41
Motlop pick 39
Duncan pick 28
Harry F Taylor pick 17 !!!

I reckon Cockatoo will justify his selection at pick 10.

 

[geelong_boy]

I agree with Black and it seems like 50-50. However, that is possibly 140k more than a first year player.

The problem with Deledio is that the club could have stopped it at the start, yet they went down that path with Richmond. They spoke to them and tried to get a deal. This has been publicly confirmed. However, then we can't complete because of salary cap. To me that sounds like running around headless. Surely, when you go down that path, you know you can complete the deal.

The Caddy trade sounds fine but we are in a premiership window not a rebuild. I'm not sure someone at pick 24 will contribute where Caddy would have. Hence, why I would hold him. We can't blame everything on salary cap, we were just weak.

I think it's important to have at least one youngster come into the team each year and just give the team some sort of energy. Let us hope that pick 24 can contribute in that way in 2017.

 

[darrenmorgan]

Don't feel as bad as I did earlier about it. We lose some depth which will be a concern if we have more injuries next year (which is likely) but Caddy for 24 aint so bad, and the rest of the movement was wins or equals. And caddy going will give cuckatoo, Lang, GHS, Menengola, S Selwood more midfield time and opportunities. One of them will step up to Caddy's level - it's not like he was a superstar or anything. Onwards and upwards!

 

[steady2]

Dangerfield - Danger was an RFA. If Geelong had offered him enough, he could have come for free. He elected one club and was out of contract. He had to go, and Geelong played a pretty high price for him given that. Hardly a good deal. It was a fair price is the best you could say, but I imagine any list manager could pull that off or even do better.

Hardly a good deal? Your post smacks of sour grapes.

Henderson - we paid overs. For what he had shown, he wasn't worth an R1.

So that underlines how brilliant Wells was in seeing what others did not see. Proving my point.

S. Selwood - A free agent who WCE didn't want to keep. Geelong only had to offer him enough money.
Z. Smith - A fair deal, but I wouldn't call getting a fair deal one a mediocre ruckman to be an example of something great, either.

Who said that? I said it was a great deal in getting those four, but you disagree, that is fine. I think that in the first year we have seen how good Danger and Hendo are, next year we should have a better idea of the other two. An extraordinary buy up which everyone in the media was praising Wells and the Geelong administration, yet there are always a few whingers here claiming "Hardly a good deal" for getting Patrick Dangerfield. Extraordinary!

 

[steady2]

All of those fish jumped into the boat. And I still don't understand why we paid Adelaide so much for an uncontracted Danger....

Perhaps if you had read the papers at the time. Adelaide could have matched the money we were offering, and that being the case, under the rules we would have had to offer him more or drop out, allowing other clubs to bid. By negotiating a deal with Adelaide we kept the others out of the loop and avoided having to pay extra for him.

 

[Larry Donohue]

The more I think about the trade period for Geelong, the less concerned I am.
1: Kersten Vardy Smedts were not what we thought they'd become
Kersten showed some signs this year, but never really sparked when the nitty gritty came
Vardy is pretty soft to be honest. He couldn't make his way in and then couldn't get the energy to perform in the vfl. I truly hope he finds a second wind but wasn't going to at Geelong. The way he played this year I think we got a fair deal for him
Smedts was not looking like breaking into the Geelong senior team. Even when he got chances he didn't show signs of what was first thought of him. At Carlton he may even show some level of skill and get consistent games. (MAY)

Caddy hurt us. It would have been better to swap him directly for Deledio.
But, so many here have cried out to get a higher draft pick and use it on youth. Well, that is what happened. Hopefully we'll get a good young player in and perhaps a barlow at the tail end of the draft to do as Menegola did this year.

Summed up, we have a quicker player with a big leg running off half back. As we wanted.
Players of the ilk of Cockatoo, Gregson, Lang and Murdoch (perhaps Parsons, Cunico, Gardner) could get some consistent time that they need at AFL level.

Clearly we need Clark to stay as even with Black he is our only true CHF in the squad. He could crack the difference from 16' to 17'. Black is my main surprise in this trade period for me is picking up a guy who couldn't get a game at north as a KPF. Silly. (Glad to surprisingly proven wrong).
For me forget makeshift and move forward with a real CHF.

Truly thought with 6 departures and 5 rookie departures, we were going to bring Ablett into the team again. Or perhaps a rocky, hanley level player.

Take a deep breath and remembrer

B: Thurlow Henderson Ruggles
HB: Kolo Taylor Tuohy
C: Duncan Guthrie Cowan
HF: Cockatoo Clark Motlop
F: Menzel Hawkins McCarthy
R: Smith Dangerfield Selwood
I: Menegola S. Selwood Stanley Blicavs.

Others Mackie Gregson Lonergan Murdoch Bews GHS Lang Black Cunico Parsons Gardner Luxford other drafted players

Still a fairly decent team I would have thought.
Be sure to play Cockatoo every game of the year.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

who is getting the big bucks

Hawkins
Selwood
Danger
Taylor
Lonergan
Motlop

I don't need to tell you which 2 deserve it. The rest dont.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

The more I think about the trade period for Geelong, the less concerned I am.
1: Kersten Vardy Smedts were not what we thought they'd become
Kersten showed some signs this year, but never really sparked when the nitty gritty came
Vardy is pretty soft to be honest. He couldn't make his way in and then couldn't get the energy to perform in the vfl. I truly hope he finds a second wind but wasn't going to at Geelong. The way he played this year I think we got a fair deal for him
Smedts was not looking like breaking into the Geelong senior team. Even when he got chances he didn't show signs of what was first thought of him. At Carlton he may even show some level of skill and get consistent games. (MAY)

Caddy hurt us. It would have been better to swap him directly for Deledio.
But, so many here have cried out to get a higher draft pick and use it on youth. Well, that is what happened. Hopefully we'll get a good young player in and perhaps a barlow at the tail end of the draft to do as Menegola did this year.

Summed up, we have a quicker player with a big leg running off half back. As we wanted.
Players of the ilk of Cockatoo, Gregson, Lang and Murdoch (perhaps Parsons, Cunico, Gardner) could get some consistent time that they need at AFL level.

Clearly we need Clark to stay as even with Black he is our only true CHF in the squad. He could crack the difference from 16' to 17'. Black is my main surprise in this trade period for me is picking up a guy who couldn't get a game at north as a KPF. Silly. (Glad to surprisingly proven wrong).
For me forget makeshift and move forward with a real CHF.

Truly thought with 6 departures and 5 rookie departures, we were going to bring Ablett into the team again. Or perhaps a rocky, hanley level player.

Take a deep breath and remembrer

B: Thurlow Henderson Ruggles
HB: Kolo Taylor Tuohy
C: Duncan Guthrie Cowan
HF: Cockatoo Clark Motlop
F: Menzel Hawkins McCarthy
R: Smith Dangerfield Selwood
I: Menegola S. Selwood Stanley Blicavs.

Others Mackie Gregson Lonergan Murdoch Bews GHS Lang Black Cunico Parsons Gardner Luxford other drafted players

Still a fairly decent team I would have thought.
Be sure to play Cockatoo every game of the year.

Swap Clark for someone, maybe black.

 

[Larry Donohue]

Swap Clark for someone, maybe black.

boo
#keep Mitch pitch

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I don't post on here because I can't stand all the negativity.

Firstly, if anyone thinks Caddy was becoming a quality player I'd like you to show me 5 games where he showed an A grade ability. He bursts a pack once a fortnight and kicks the occasional goal. He's behind Joel, Danger, Scooter, Menegola, Guthrie, Duncan and even Blicavs. They play him at half forward. Motlop, Lang, Cockatoo, Gregson, and McCarthy all play that role better. What were supposed to do with Caddy? Hope he got better? Pick 24 is good!

We got rid of Smedts. That is good. We got Tuohy. Also good. We dropped pick 12-18 for 19-24. That was a good deal.

Kersten was okay. Nothing more than that.

Vardy can't get on the park.

If you write up a best 22 can you fit Caddy in the middle??? Because that's where he wants to play and plays his best. His best isn't near our best 4. Does Tuohy fit in? Straight away. Does Kersten fit in? Maybe for balance. Maybe.

Do we want to pay 800K for Deledio? He's not worth that. He's a wonderful player, but Thurlow will be our wonderful player.

We were missing picks because of the quality we brought in last season.

Now we don't trust Wells?

Are you kidding me?! Look at the draft he brought in Gregson and look who was picked before that kid.

The lack of faith in our club is disgusting. It's not in Scott or Wells. It's the club. From the top down. Have faith in this brilliant establishment.

If pick 24 doesn't turn out to be an absolute gem in years to come I'll be surprised.

But for the love of God what an overreaction.

I think the issue is not the end result caddy is coverable and tuohy is needed its just that we ballsed up both trades. Particularly given you have to use 2 firsr rounders in 4 years to effectively lose 2 (one traded out for tuohy and the one we should have got in for caddy) loses us a lot of flexibility in the future and is poor.

For example if we traded 38 and 42 to gc for 26 like the bulldogs did and the insisted that richmond got us pick 15 from gws and gave it to us then we are 2 extra first rounders to the good. Its poor tactics and wells needed some better advice today.

Imagine geelong trades 38 and 42 to gc for 26. Then trades 26 and smedts for tuohy and a pick in the 60s.
Trade caddy for 15 only or keep him.
We gain pick 15 and a 2017 1st rounder and lose carltons 2017 2nd and picks 38 and 42. Big difference.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

boo
#keep Mitch pitch

Gone i reckon.

 

[thegerman]

Maybe if you posted more often it wouldn't be so negative.

Maybe Riessy should post every second post, to even out the crap

 

[Lana]

I think the issue is not the end result caddy is coverable and tuohy is needed its just that we ballsed up both trades. Particularly given you have to use 2 firsr rounders in 4 years to effectively lose 2 (one traded out for tuohy and the one we should have got in for caddy) loses us a lot of flexibility in the future and is poor.

For example if we traded 38 and 42 to gc for 26 like the bulldogs did and the insisted that richmond got us pick 15 from gws and gave it to us then we are 2 extra first rounders to the good. Its poor tactics and wells needed some better advice today.

Imagine geelong trades 38 and 42 to gc for 26. Then trades 26 and smedts for tuohy and a pick in the 60s.
Trade caddy for 15 only or keep him.
We gain pick 15 and a 2017 1st rounder and lose carltons 2017 2nd and picks 38 and 42. Big difference.

For we all know they tried to do something like that but couldn't get it to stick. So they did the moves they could do and moved on, it's not like they did them in the first few days of the trade period.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

For we all know they tried to do something like that but couldn't get it to stick. So they did the moves they could do and moved on

With tuohy maybe you are right we needed him and needed to close it. But with caddy we just could have kept him, unless our cap is in worse shape than i thought theres no reason to buckle on that trade.

 

[Lana]

With tuohy maybe you are right we needed him and needed to close it. But with caddy we just could have kept him, unless our cap is in worse shape than i thought theres no reason to buckle on that trade.

If they grab someone like Kerr in the national draft I'll be able to get over the Caddy trade. I'd be able to link that need to the buckle.

 

[Ricketz]

Thompson did it very early, and after especially Murphy and White vowed to not do it unless something pretty special was available. In his case the Ottens deal (kind of similar to the Dangerfield deal I guess). But after about 2001, Thompson didn't do many trades and certainly didn't throw away early picks like now.

Our squad had nothing to do with anything, I guess...

 

[Ricketz]

Put Mr Wells under 1 arm and Mr Scott under the other and take them too while you are at it.
Tell them too get their s**t together and explain the effects of the regular use of hallucinogenic drugs.

Why don't you and all the other baggers here apply for their jobs, with your clearly superior skills? That way we don't have to worry about who they get in next to replace them, and we won't have to deal with the hand wringing that goes on here because noone will ever disagree with your decisions? Two birds etc etc... or maybe those who can etc etc...

 

[darren forssman]

Are tacticians available in the trade period??

Probably belongs in the Chris Scott thread.

Seriously, I think it was a combination of lack of tactical nous and also having the right cattle.