Opinion Losing

[XU1-ROO]

Won 9 in a row last year. And didn't think we were playing that great.
Lost 5 in in row this year. Could of won 3. But look to be playing a better style of footy. If we still had Spud, NDal & Harvey, could of we won those 3 games. Maybe yes. Am backing in a bit of pain this year to get games into players will less than 50 games in Wood, Simpkin, Hrovat, Garner, EVW etc.

 

[Dodecahedron]

i don't want to just finish in the 8 ... I want to win f*****g premierships & this squad needs more class .

I agree that we should play the kids now.
Drop some of Brad's favourites and let the new generation have a genuine crack.

But the day I attend a whole season hoping we lose every game is the day I give this caper away.

 

[deano28]

I agree that we should play the kids now.
Drop some of Brad's favourites and let the new generation have a genuine crack.

But the day I attend a whole season hoping we lose every game is the day I give this caper away.

Nobody goes to the footy hoping to lose mate but the fact is we won't be playing finals this year and whilst it burns in our guts that we are letting wins slip through fingers , we shouldn't be too disappointed if we end up in the bottom four at the end of the year because we have shown very good signs and I think it will be tougher in the 2nd half of the year for our younger group to run out games particularly if we bring in more youngsters at the expense of the likes of swallow , Gibson , Thompson & Hansen

 

[Zebrah]

TBH, couldn't script the first 5 rounds better. We have shown we can match it with top teams yet we are still in line for a top 2 pick.

****, every other team has raided the top end talent via the draft. I have caved. I want number 1-2 pick.

 

[GazzaRoo]

Contrary to what a lot think i think we have some real good young players who have had there development hampered by
lack of opportunity. We often went with slightly injured experienced players rather than blooding our kids.
With no cup in hand that proved to be the wrong choice. I hope brad has learnt and gives games to all the young boys so we can really build a
list with depth. That does unfortunately mean a bit more pain regardless ill be there again next week to take mine.

 

[Mav]

Preuss? Brown? Garner? EVW? Dumont? Mullet? McDonald? Going further back Goldstein? Agree we have some stagnating players but this "We can't develop anyone" narrative is applied pretty selectively.

Goldy is the only player of that lot that you can call an A grader.

 

[Ischenko]

Goldy is the only player of that lot that you can call an A grader.

Yet. Others have all played ~50 or less games. And add Cunnington as A grade, and Tarrant as well. Wright/MacMillan/Ziebell/Jacobs solid B graders, which every club has and needs - you cannot field a team of absolute guns unless the AFL hands you myriad top 10 picks and you don't **** them up.

We develop players alright IMO, we just haven't had access to absolutely elite talent. Simpkin looks very promising in this regard, add Josh Kelly, maybe Ahern plus a top 10 pick this year and we will then be able to judge.

Not "excusing mediocrity" btw, just trying to put things in perspective a bit.

 

[Caracas]

.... and the circle jerk continues. Woe is us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thewlis Dish]

We develop players alright IMO, we just haven't had access to absolutely elite talent.

Of the last seven Brownlow winners, only Cotchin and Dangerfield were taken inside the top ten of the draft.

"Access to elite talent" is a convenient excuse when talking about player development. Sure it helps, but good sides consistently develop players they take in the 20s and 30s into stars. The problem is we don't have the senior leadership and on-field culture to foster this development, and we haven't for some time.

How many guys have Sydney turned into elite players that they have taken with picks outside 30? I can think of Jack, Parker, Hannebery, Grundy, Smith, Goodes and Rampe just off the top of my head.

 

[Mcarcherey]

I fear that our top pick will end up at GWS anyway.

So who gives a **** if we finish 12th or 18th?

Because GWS will want a top 5 pick at the minimum plus other picks/players, if we get another post top 5 pick it won't cut the mustard and have to give up more.

 

[Mav]

Of the last seven Brownlow winners, only Cotchin and Dangerfield were taken inside the top ten of the draft.

"Access to elite talent" is a convenient excuse when talking about player development. Sure it helps, but good sides consistently develop players they take in the 20s and 30s into stars. The problem is we don't have the senior leadership and on-field culture to foster this development, and we haven't for some time.

How many guys have Sydney turned into elite players that they have taken with picks outside 30? I can think of Jack, Parker, Hannebery, Grundy, Smith, Goodes and Rampe just off the top of my head.

yep, have a look at Adealaide.

JZ and Cunners should be A graders being high picks. Taz and BJ are first rounders as well. And sure the next crop have potential, but we've been talking up our potential for the last 7 years.

 

[Samsquanch]

IMO it is never "ok" to lose. We are not Melbourne

Seriously, north should have held on to win 3 of the 5 games from the lead the team had. We should not be having this conversation.

If north were playing all of the young blokes and getting done by 10 goals each week, but building a new team then losses would be expected even if not accepted.

The pity is, too many losses from winning positions, or not enough games into younger players.

If north were 3/2 right now then confidence would be up, we would all be reasonably happy (I'm joking about that) and all would be good in the world.

If north had played most of the young blokes in at least 3 or 4 games each then regardless of wins and losses, confidence would be up, we would all be reasonably happy (I'm joking about that) and all would be good in the world.

We are here where we are because we've lost 3 we should have won, and/or we are not getting games into the newer players as much as the majority of posters would like.

I also think there are some quite reasonable expectations that selections would have been more based on merit that so far have not been met. Maybe this will be fixed up now that the VFL season has started.

 

[Mcarcherey]

Of the last seven Brownlow winners, only Cotchin and Dangerfield were taken inside the top ten of the draft.

"Access to elite talent" is a convenient excuse when talking about player development. Sure it helps, but good sides consistently develop players they take in the 20s and 30s into stars. The problem is we don't have the senior leadership and on-field culture to foster this development, and we haven't for some time.

How many guys have Sydney turned into elite players that they have taken with picks outside 30? I can think of Jack, Parker, Hannebery, Grundy, Smith, Goodes and Rampe just off the top of my head.

with all due respect, brownlow's mean f-all -how many did the two best players ever win? 0

i'm not saying top 10 picks = guaranteed gun, but it gets you someone half decent, just like the current top 10 players according to the AFL website, 60% are in the top 10, 80% are in the first round area.

Rance - 18
Parker - 40
Ablett - 40
Kennedy - 5
Pendlebury - 5
Bont - 5
Selwood - 7
Franklin - 5
Fyfe - 20
Danger - 10

Regardless, it gives you access to elite talent due to the fact you can use it as trade bait to get something elite.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

yep, have a look at Adealaide.

Sloane (44), Laird (86), Cameron (rookie), McGovern (43), Crouch (23), Knight (46) and Atkins (81) are all important contributors to their side.

Not to mention Walker as a NSW scholarship player, and turning fringe players from other clubs into stars (Lynch, Jenkins, to a lesser extent Jacobs). They are probably flag favourites and I don't think they have a top ten draft pick on their list now that Dangerfield has left.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

i'm not saying top 10 picks = guaranteed gun, but it gets you someone half decent, just like the current top 10 players according to the AFL website, 60% are in the top 10, 80% are in the first round area.

It got us Ziebell and Cunnington, who sat and watched Fyfe (pick 20), Mundy (pick 19) and Neale (pick 58) win every important clearance in the last quarter.

 

[Mcarcherey]

It got us Ziebell and Cunnington, who sat and watched Fyfe (pick 20), Mundy (pick 19) and Neale (pick 58) win every important clearance in the last quarter.

what's your point? cunners was close to BOG - the other BOG, hill, taken at pick 4. ziebell had a shit game. Fyfe and mundy are still first rounders....out of the 5 players you've mentioned 80% were in the first round area and the obvious one you missed to help your confirmation bias you excluded because you knew he was a top draft pick.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

what's your point? cunners was close to BOG - the other BOG, hill, taken at pick 4. ziebell had a shit game. Fyfe and mundy are still first rounders....out of the 5 players you've mentioned 80% were in the first round area and the obvious one you missed to help your confirmation bias you excluded because you knew he was a top draft pick.

My point was our player development issues have little to do with where we draft and using that as an excuse masks the real issues. There's a good reason clubs like Sydney, Adelaide and Geelong stay up the top and clubs like Gold Coast and Melbourne who have a glut of top picks stay down the bottom.

It would be great to have a few top picks but it won't change the fact they are coming into a playing group that lacks leadership and discipline.

 

[tommy_g]

I know it looks like we have thrown these games away but I think everyone is underrating how unfit we actually are. We had 10+ players on the injury list during pre-season. Most in the side had an interrupted pre-season. Every game we have played so far the effort has dropped off significantly in the last quarter.

I agree with the thread creator. There has been plenty of positives so far. I think that their are some key areas that we need to improve. We could have played finals this year had we been healthy from the start but none the less:

> Defensive transition: Every game we have seen coast-to-coast plays.
> Ball use: Every game we have seen terrible ball use
> Team selection: Swallow, Gibson as an example. Now LT if he plays again.
> Overall team fitness: Last quarter fade outs. Also effects particularly those first two areas.

We will continue to build into this season as the players get fitter from playing games of AFL football and as we have more competition for spots etc.

When the game is structured however, we look really good and have really got on top.

 

[Mcarcherey]

My point was our player development issues have little to do with where we draft and using that as an excuse masks the real issues. There's a good reason clubs like Sydney, Adelaide and Geelong stay up the top and clubs like Gold Coast and Melbourne who have a glut of top picks stay down the bottom.

It would be great to have a few top picks but it won't change the fact they are coming into a playing group that lacks leadership and discipline.

I'm happy with cunnington and ziebell as top ten picks, if you get over 200 games and they are in your top few players at the club that's a pretty successful top pick. you look at the above players draft years, out of the top 20 picks they're either where they should be or better - the top 20 picks are virtually decided before the draft, it's a question of which order after the first 5. After the first round it's a lottery.

as for our development - i'm pretty happy with the development of goldy, dumont, brown (rookie), preuss (rookie), and wood that were all outside of the first round and to a lesser extent swallow pre-achilles.

Don't forget clubs like Sydney have had the academy and many many other concessions.

as for the bolded part i don't think it has really affected the development of anyone except maybe atley - who should really be a leader by now anyway.

Out of the current group, really the proof will be in the 2014/15 draft crop.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

My point was our player development issues have little to do with where we draft and using that as an excuse masks the real issues. There's a good reason clubs like Sydney, Adelaide and Geelong stay up the top and clubs like Gold Coast and Melbourne who have a glut of top picks stay down the bottom.

It would be great to have a few top picks but it won't change the fact they are coming into a playing group that lacks leadership and discipline.

Absolutely agree re challenging the assumption that the only way to success is to have early picks.

Everyone always states this as fact but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny and in a sport where there are 22 players to a side each individual added - even future stars - is by definition limited.

Everything from culture, leadership, experience, coaching, drafting and trading all come into play.

Anyone thinking/hoping we just finish bottom 4 then scoot up the ladder next year is dreaming.

Sure a bottom 4 finish may help us snag Kelly in a straight swap but there is too much water to go under the bridge there to plan our whole year around that.

 

[hcd199]

****, every other team has raided the top end talent via the draft. I have caved. I want number 1-2 pick.

Two sides presently 5-0 and generally seen as contenders this season certainly haven't done so:
Geelong's last three top ten picks: Cockatoo (#10, 2014), Selwood (#7, 2006), Tenace (#7, 2003)
Adelaide's last three top ten picks: Davis (#10, 2008), Dangerfield (#10, 2007), Meesen (#8, 2004)

Having a horrid season doesn't beget success in any meaningful fashion either; of bottom 2 sides since 2000, only Hawthorn (2004) and Collingwood (2005) have gone on to win the flag within 10 years, and beyond that, only St. Kilda (2000-2002) and West Coast (2008, 2010) have made the GF in that timeframe (even expanding to consecutive prelims - which we achieved without any such poor season - only adds in the 2003 Bulldogs spoon). Finishing so low is instead the province of present-day failures like Melbourne (no finals since '06 and 2 spoons), Brisbane (one finals series since '04), Essendon (no finals wins since '04 and a spoon), Richmond (no finals wins since '01 and 2 spoons), Carlton (no prelims since '01 and four spoons)... my point is, the clubs that have succeeded in the modern era have by and large been those that haven't seen the tail end of the ladder for quite some time - Geelong (one finals series missed since 2006), Sydney (one finals series missed since 2002)... even the bulk of the Hawks' success was nearly a decade after their worst season and relied heavily on subsequent recruits rather than high draftees.

Realistically, we'll finish this season in top ten pick territory. Use that wisely and we should recruit a quality player that addresses list deficiencies (i.e., a pacy outside mid). Throwing away an entire season for slightly improved draft positions which give us a slightly better chance of getting a slightly better player makes no sense - as the various different case examples I mention above go to show, approaches that focus on the draft beget failure. Hopefully, North never go down that track.

 

[Ahern2Boof]

Don't mind being in the position we are, but I really hope this 'getting spooked when the opposition kick the first goal of the second half' shit doesn't get too ingrained within the playing group. It's already cemented into the psyche of the likes of Gibson, Atley, Ziebell, Cunnington, Thompson and Macmillan as a result of the 2013 season, we don't need it spreading to the Simpkins and the Hrovats and the Dumonts.

 

[danj]

Seriously, north should have held on to win 3 of the 5 games from the lead the team had. We should not be having this conversation.

If north were playing all of the young blokes and getting done by 10 goals each week, but building a new team then losses would be expected even if not accepted.

The pity is, too many losses from winning positions, or not enough games into younger players.

If north were 3/2 right now then confidence would be up, we would all be reasonably happy (I'm joking about that) and all would be good in the world.

If north had played most of the young blokes in at least 3 or 4 games each then regardless of wins and losses, confidence would be up, we would all be reasonably happy (I'm joking about that) and all would be good in the world.

We are here where we are because we've lost 3 we should have won, and/or we are not getting games into the newer players as much as the majority of posters would like.

I also think there are some quite reasonable expectations that selections would have been more based on merit that so far have not been met. Maybe this will be fixed up now that the VFL season has started.

Are u delusional?

 

[Samsquanch]

Are u delusional?

I try to fit in.

 

[koshari]

just noticed the swans have carlton next week, the bottom of the ladder awaits us.