Analysis Loss of structure during games

Not sure where this should go, but I reckon it warrants its own thread.
We have all seen that all too often when the ball is deep in our backline, our players (either deliberately or not, suspect the former) get sucked into one half of the ground, giving us absolutely NO chance to rebound effectively. We lose all structure, and the only way to get it back is to concede a goal, or if we are lucky to engineer a stoppage on the wing, if we can get it that far before it shoots straight back into the opposition forward line.

Now, if this is deliberate coaching instruction, it's clearly not working, and our coaches can't be blind and not see that. If it's not the coaches doing, then they aren't doing a good job trying to address it. Good teams don't play that way, and we aren't going to kick reasonable score against anyone, until we can fix it. Our only avenue to goal against a decent side would be straight out of the centre bounce. Hence why we don't kick more than 2-3 per quarter.
 
Sep 1, 2015
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Once any team hesitates the opposition press forward. We tried many times to bring the ball across the field. To do this disposal has to be spot on.

I believe that we need more time and the confidence will come. Confident teams play completely different.
 
Structure is hard to maintain when you have:

  • a lack of class in the small sample of senior players
  • a young squad (with a new and developing fitness plan)
  • inexperience in the team across all lines
  • missing key structural players due to availability (McKay for example) or due to staged development into the 22 (Perez, Goater, Ford, Curtis) - this year will tell a story on many of these players and the flow on impacts from their availability and development

So many of the issues are chicken and egg and will naturally improve with consistent games, application and coaching (along with more talent into the team). Patience.
 
Nov 25, 2014
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Structure, for me, is also about making the most of the resources at your disposal - playing players in their best positions and to their strengths. Doing what the opposition doesn't want to happen. Exhibit 1. ,Thomas Powell. The kid's an A grade extractor and distributor. He's born for thinking his way out of heavy traffic. Twitch muscles, superior vision and hands like greased lightning. So what do we do? We play him on the wing!
 
Mar 19, 2014
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It’s interesting that it’s changed from last year when there was a directive to take the inside kick on and be aggressive. That hasn’t been the case so far this year but early days.

We’ve started the year better than last but haven’t improved from the best form of last year. I haven’t been impressed per se but don’t have the existential concerns some posters have. As long as we keep improving it should be a reasonable season.
 

amaz199

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Don't think it's really a loss of structure as much as it's lack of fitness ability.

Watch the first quarter, we come out as fast as we've ever been moving the ball lightning quick. Then, once we're puffed, we can't even defend the corridor properly or even the wings.

All it takes is for us to fade or miss too many opportunities and it's over.

These boys will look a lot fitter in 2023.
 
We've had this problem for years. I can see what we are trying to do - move the ball thru the corridor quickly, and have half backs and midfielders provide that link.

However, the biggest problem is that we don't have the footskills to execute this plan. It'll take some time to phase out the habit of hack kicks out of the backline, and unskilled players.

We aren't going to be anywhere near competing for top 4 for some time, so as long as we eventually phase out guys like JMac, Atley etc in one year, then Ziebell, Turner, Goldy and others and keep building it'll be small steps over time.

Agree we need a second target up forward, i haven't seen enough of Comben to know if he's the answer.
 
Structure, for me, is also about making the most of the resources at your disposal - playing players in their best positions and to their strengths. Doing what the opposition doesn't want to happen. Exhibit 1. ,Thomas Powell. The kid's an A grade extractor and distributor. He's born for thinking his way out of heavy traffic. Twitch muscles, superior vision and hands like greased lightning. So what do we do? We play him on the wing!
He's 19 and doesn't have the body of JHF. We don't want him spending another half the year on the sidelines due to injury and missing out on more development in the 1's. This stuff needs some patience. They'll play him in the guts more as he matures.
 
Our players are always getting sucked into any contest anywhere on the ground.

Stoppage after stoppage all our players go into the contest the oppo stays out and we get killed on the breakaway chasing arse. Happens consistently.
We are elite when it comes to ball watching. Like moths to a flame.
 

koshari

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Don't think it's really a loss of structure as much as it's lack of fitness ability.

Watch the first quarter, we come out as fast as we've ever been moving the ball lightning quick. Then, once we're puffed, we can't even defend the corridor properly or even the wings.

All it takes is for us to fade or miss too many opportunities and it's over.

These boys will look a lot fitter in 2023.
i really dont think our fitness would be so far off other teams, we get shown up when we cough it up and burn tickets then having to push back into defensive mode when everyone had just set up for an offensive play, you continually do this and you run out of legs fast, even the fittest teams would run out of gas. iam not saying we are fitter just to clarify we are crucifying ourselves by turning it over so much, the improvement in decision making and execution is the horse, the fitness is the cart. and we can be smarter about it, if we are completely pressured and there are no options a 50 meter kick out on the full isnt such a bad option, lets us regroup and gives a little time to set up a defensive structure and get a few bodies behind the ball, where as bombing it to a bloke standing by himself he can mark play on immediately and bomb it back without giving us a chance to push back,
 

Psicosis

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Have heard the suggestion that another key forward will solve these issues. I think that's an over simplification.

It starts with skill execution & work rate. We don't have the players in the back half capable of consistent skill execution. We also don't have the players up the ground willing to run unselfishly to provide options. It's a pretty vicious cycle, which is going to see us continue to leak goals on turn over & play a predictable game style.

On the work rate piece, we also get out pressured every week by opposition, which when you combine with our foots skills, is a disaster waiting to happen. The Richmond game last year was a classic example, all you need to do is apply moderate pressure and we crumble. All the games that we won last year the oppositions pressure was insipid.

I suppose it's why I'm not as critical as Noble at this stage. He just doesn't have the cattle from a skills perspective (particularly in the back half) yet. They've clearly identified fitness as a problem & anyone that attended preseason training can see that it was clearly a huge area of focus - I've never seen them pushed like that. Rome wasn't built in a day I suppose.
 

Themanbun

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Not sure where this should go, but I reckon it warrants its own thread.
We have all seen that all too often when the ball is deep in our backline, our players (either deliberately or not, suspect the former) get sucked into one half of the ground, giving us absolutely NO chance to rebound effectively. We lose all structure, and the only way to get it back is to concede a goal, or if we are lucky to engineer a stoppage on the wing, if we can get it that far before it shoots straight back into the opposition forward line.

Now, if this is deliberate coaching instruction, it's clearly not working, and our coaches can't be blind and not see that. If it's not the coaches doing, then they aren't doing a good job trying to address it. Good teams don't play that way, and we aren't going to kick reasonable score against anyone, until we can fix it. Our only avenue to goal against a decent side would be straight out of the centre bounce. Hence why we don't kick more than 2-3 per quarter.
I had this bee in my bonnet early last year - I'm seriously concerned about our ability to turn this around and start scoring.

We keep saying we want to move it quickly through the corridor, but apply a really tight defensive half press. These two things are in contradiction to each other.

I also disagree with people here on the footskills thing. We have enough guys who are good kicks now. What we are seeing is blokes who came to our club as good kicks now kicking like s**t. And I reckon a fair bit of that is to do with not having any options making it very hard to make a decision.
 

Passmore

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The quick play on directly forward v the slow, switch, chip pass option = more risk, but greater reward, when you take the slow option, and add in a goodly amount of unforced errors, the turnovers provide opposition easy scoring options.

Someone on Twitter put up a clip of blokes missing targets under no, or very little pressure. Nearly everyone in the team scored a guernsey at some point, but the main culprits were those coming from defence. No game plan or structure will withstand not executing the basics.
 

disco_cowboy

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How did our VFL guys go compared - would be curious if it’s a good system when the quality is lower and how that will change as bodies mature
 

Frank Thring

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I had this bee in my bonnet early last year - I'm seriously concerned about our ability to turn this around and start scoring.

We keep saying we want to move it quickly through the corridor, but apply a really tight defensive half press. These two things are in contradiction to each other.

I also disagree with people here on the footskills thing. We have enough guys who are good kicks now. What we are seeing is blokes who came to our club as good kicks now kicking like s**t. And I reckon a fair bit of that is to do with not having any options making it very hard to make a decision.
Bang on mate. Our forward line is filled with only one natural forward in Larkey, the rest are makeshift or shoehorned there which leads to a disfuntional forward line. They all chase the ball instead of creating space for each other.

Adding natural forwards like Ford and Curtis will go some way in addressing this which will Improve our execution into inside 50 as clearer options will becone available.
 

SonofSamsquanch

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Mar 31, 2016
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I also disagree with people here on the footskills thing. We have enough guys who are good kicks now. What we are seeing is blokes who came to our club as good kicks now kicking like s**t. And I reckon a fair bit of that is to do with not having any options making it very hard to make a decision.
I think this usually the biggest difference between the top and bottom teams (apart from the presence of a few exceptional players). Even an average player can look OK if he (or she) has a teammate who's made some space upfield and provides a hittable target. But a good player can look pretty bad if they've done the hard work, won the ball, then in the few seconds they have to make a decision the only teammate they see is the one who's a half a metre away running alongside them. It must really piss some of these guys off when they look upfield and their forwards are out of position or bunching up in a gang of four on the boundary line all waving like they're seeing off friends at the airport.

The really good teams are those who have a player with the ability to break from the pack and get into space, and to have players upfield who can predict the leading patterns of their forward line targets.
 
Have heard the suggestion that another key forward will solve these issues. I think that's an over simplification.

It starts with skill execution & work rate. We don't have the players in the back half capable of consistent skill execution. We also don't have the players up the ground willing to run unselfishly to provide options. It's a pretty vicious cycle, which is going to see us continue to leak goals on turn over & play a predictable game style.

On the work rate piece, we also get out pressured every week by opposition, which when you combine with our foots skills, is a disaster waiting to happen. The Richmond game last year was a classic example, all you need to do is apply moderate pressure and we crumble. All the games that we won last year the oppositions pressure was insipid.

I suppose it's why I'm not as critical as Noble at this stage. He just doesn't have the cattle from a skills perspective (particularly in the back half) yet. They've clearly identified fitness as a problem & anyone that attended preseason training can see that it was clearly a huge area of focus - I've never seen them pushed like that. Rome wasn't built in a day I suppose.
I agree it’s not magically going to solve everything but it will help massively to have a second key forward which every team has to help straighten us up and provide proper support to Larkey and alternatives when going forward

Comben has to come in for a small
 
Sep 1, 2015
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I agree it’s not magically going to solve everything but it will help massively to have a second key forward which every team has to help straighten us up and provide proper support to Larkey and alternatives when going forward

Comben has to come in for a small
Mate you were saying in the changes thread that Comben should come in for Goldy. Which small would you want out?
 
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