Autopsy Loss v Giants

RobbieK

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Robbie it's sweet and naiive that you believe its not biased but you live in a dream world. Of course the AFL seeks to steer the competition to meet their objectives to spread the game at grassroots level, develop key markets and monetise the TV, streaming and merchandise rights. Sometimes its obvious like the trading ban but most times its far more subtle.

It's not hard. They talk. The AFL umpires know the objectives and the preferred outcomes, though of course they can't be seen to influence the games. Still they know which side their bread is buttered on. So they give a soft free, miss a free, a missed 50m, a momentum killer if needed. Of course they try to tidy up the stats if they're too lop sided, usually by awarding junk time frees. Nothing too obvious but watch the 2016 GF if you want to see AFL bias.

Normally it would never be as obvious as 3 errors in one team's favour in the dying minutes but the weekend's game was very close. Pay any of those correctly and the outcome is not what the AFL prefers. So to defuse accusations of bias the AFL admits the umpire made an error and thus they absolve themselves of blame. Issue AFL apology, defend umpires, rinse repeat.

it's only by calling them out that we can mitigate this behaviour.

BTW. Horse says "WTF ?"
Sweet and naive? Better than paranoid and delusional.
 
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Bloodied52

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Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

There is no way Umps are instructed to persecute one team. Incompetence is the explanation. Home crowds no doubt influence some errors

However I think there may be an element of stereotyping of some teams and players that influences how Umps see the game.
 

RobbieK

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Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

There is no way Umps are instructed to persecute one team. Incompetence is the explanation. Home crowds no doubt influence some errors

However I think there may be an element of stereotyping of some teams and players that influences how Umps see the game.
I think that means you agree with me rather than splitting the difference between the two of us.
 

bungee

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Interesting that McLean was our clearance king (7) on the weekend, followed by clarke and parker (5), florent (4), jack (3) and rowbum, heeney (2), lloyd (1) while Kennedy & hewett both had none.
 

bungee

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I think that means you agree with me rather than splitting the difference between the two of us.
I never claimed umps are "instructed to persecute one team" but they cannot help but be aware of their paymaster's objectives and its long antipathy towards the Swans. To think they're immune to such influence is naive. To believe the weekend's umpiring wasn't biased smacks of simplemindedness and viridity
 

Bloodied52

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Anyone else see the look on Kirk's face as he presented the medal to Hopper ? Very pi**ed off.
No. I could not bear to watch it any more. I wonder whether anything other than the defeat had got up Kirky's nose. Maybe Hopper had just bitten the head off a chook or bad mouthed the Dalai Lamington.

FWIW, I thought Hopper played a terrific game.
 

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RobbieK

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I never claimed umps are "instructed to persecute one team" but they cannot help but be aware of their paymaster's objectives and its long antipathy towards the Swans. To think they're immune to such influence is naive. To believe the weekend's umpiring wasn't biased smacks of simplemindedness and viridity
They aren't instructed by the AFL now? That isn't what you said before:

The umpires' employer is the AFL so naturally they make their calls at the discretion and direction of the AFL when required.
You really believe that the AFL has such a clear an anti-Sydney agenda that the umpires are aware of it without needing to be told about it and have somehow taken it upon themselves to further this agenda by making the odd bad decision at key moments in matches?

You can call me simple minded, but if you honestly believe this BS then you've lost your mind completely.
 

Heeney2Franklin

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Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

There is no way Umps are instructed to persecute one team. Incompetence is the explanation. Home crowds no doubt influence some errors

However I think there may be an element of stereotyping of some teams and players that influences how Umps see the game.
I just dont understand the very obvious 50m penalties that have not been awarded to us during a few games, i have seen slight pushes after a mark get 50 the bloke just cannoned into Menzel back.

Jones picks up the ball and has a nanosecond to get rid of it otherwise gets HTB.
 

RobbieK

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I just dont understand the very obvious 50m penalties that have not been awarded to us during a few games, i have seen slight pushes after a mark get 50 the bloke just cannoned into Menzel back.

Jones picks up the ball and has a nanosecond to get rid of it otherwise gets HTB.
I think a player like Jones is on the umpire's radar before the ball even bounces. They know he is the kind of guy who is likely to take on tacklers and try to break the lines. Does this change the way they umpire him? Almost definitely. Subconsciously they will give him less time or opportunity before calling him for holding the ball than they would another player who doesn't have the same reputation. Even if he didn't have priority opportunity he will get calls against him because of his tendency to try and break tackles when he does have prior opportunity. Is this fair? No. Is this an anti-Swans conspiracy? No. Its just the way the human brain works, we make short cuts and prejudgments that help us make faster decisions (though not necessarily the best decisions).

There are players all around the league who get umpired differently because of their reputation. Toby Greene and James Sicily come to mind straight away. In an ideal world every player gets treated the same, but we don't live in an ideal world. Let's not mistake all of this for the AFL's conscious and pre-meditated institutional animosity towards our club, though.

I think there needs to be better umpiring in this league. There needs to be full time umpires getting paid enough for them to make this their career rather than a weekend side-gig. There also needs to be a stop to all this incessant tinkering and interpretation shifting that makes it even harder for them to do an already difficult job. So let's do something practical like that to address real issues rather than creating nefarious conspiracies out of nothing that just deflects from what is actually happening.
 

Bloodied52

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I think a player like Jones is on the umpire's radar before the ball even bounces. They know he is the kind of guy who is likely to take on tacklers and try to break the lines. Does this change the way they umpire him? Almost definitely. Subconsciously they will give him less time or opportunity before calling him for holding the ball than they would another player who doesn't have the same reputation. Even if he didn't have priority opportunity he will get calls against him because of his tendency to try and break tackles when he does have prior opportunity. Is this fair? No. Is this an anti-Swans conspiracy? No. Its just the way the human brain works, we make short cuts and prejudgments that help us make faster decisions (though not necessarily the best decisions).

There are players all around the league who get umpired differently because of their reputation. Toby Greene and James Sicily come to mind straight away. In an ideal world every player gets treated the same, but we don't live in an ideal world. Let's not mistake all of this for the AFL's conscious and pre-meditated institutional animosity towards our club, though.

I think there needs to be better umpiring in this league. There needs to be full time umpires getting paid enough for them to make this their career rather than a weekend side-gig. There also needs to be a stop to all this incessant tinkering and interpretation shifting that makes it even harder for them to do an already difficult job. So let's do something practical like that to address real issues rather than creating nefarious conspiracies out of nothing that just deflects from what is actually happening.
Hmmmnnn. I have to confess that I pretty much agree with this. The example of Jones could be replaced by Umps subconsciously expecting that Rampe will grapple a bigger opponent.

Hmmmnnn .... now where is that mirror? Think I need a very long hard look in it.
 

bungee

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They aren't instructed by the AFL now? That isn't what you said before:



You really believe that the AFL has such a clear an anti-Sydney agenda that the umpires are aware of it without needing to be told about it and have somehow taken it upon themselves to further this agenda by making the odd bad decision at key moments in matches?

You can call me simple minded, but if you honestly believe this BS then you've lost your mind completely.
I'll refer you to the weekend's Port game. I don't believe in coincidence.
 

caesar88

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The umpiring against Port had nothing to do with the result.
Disagree. Their third quarter spree came on the back of countless frees given away by our defenders who by that point weren’t sure of what sport they were playing because the rules had been compromised so much in the first half!
 

RobbieK

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Disagree. Their third quarter spree came on the back of countless frees given away by our defenders who by that point weren’t sure of what sport they were playing because the rules had been compromised so much in the first half!
We were watching different games, then. I didn't see anything particularly wrong with the umpiring at any point in the game and I saw Port rapidly pile on the points when their midfield was able to decisively overpower ours after a closely contested first half. We weren't good enough and they played better.
 

caesar88

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We were watching different games, then. I didn't see anything particularly wrong with the umpiring at any point in the game and I saw Port rapidly pile on the points when their midfield was able to decisively overpower ours after a closely contested first half. We weren't good enough and they played better.
We weren’t good enough and they did play better, and were still only just in front at half time. The dam wall was going to break at some point. You can only play 25 so long before you give up.

It was up there with the worst umpiring displays I’ve ever seen in a football match
 

RobbieK

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We weren’t good enough and they did play better, and were still only just in front at half time. The dam wall was going to break at some point. You can only play 25 so long before you give up.

It was up there with the worst umpiring displays I’ve ever seen in a football match
I can't imagine how favoured by the umpires we would need to be in order for you to think a match was officiated fairly if that is the case.
 

Bloodied52

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I can't imagine how favoured by the umpires we would need to be in order for you to think a match was officiated fairly if that is the case.
Dunno about C88, but a free line of 50-0 with repeat 50m penalties brought so so so so close to goal that even Hayward couldn't miss* would satisfy me!

* If Will happened to miss the Ump would kick it for him.

We got beaten because Port were a better team on the day (inc players and box) and not because of the Umps.
 

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