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Love to see it - but don't like the chances

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Eagle_Fan

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West Coast
The back page of todays West Australian..... :D

Travel weary: WA clubs ask for more home games

WEST Coast and Fremantle have asked the AFL to reduce their travel requirements next season.

The two WA clubs take to the air between 12 and 15 times a year - nearly three times as often as Victorian clubs.

The Eagles want all their pre-season matches in Perth and to play one fewer away game. For the latter to happen, a Victorian club would have to transfer one of its home games to Subiaco Oval.

Several cash-strapped Victorian clubs have played home games in Sydney, Tasmania, Brisbane and Canberra in recent years.

Though the Eagles would not be prepared to give any guarantee, a visiting club could expect to make about $200,000 from a Perth game.

The Eagles have also asked that all their away matches be played in the afternoon, rather than at night, which would eliminate the need for the team to be away for three days at a time.

If its proposal is accepted by the AFL, West Coast's travel commitment next year would be cut to nine matches before the finals.

Fremantle has also applied for a lighter travel load, although not to the same extent as the Eagles.

The Dockers have asked to play two of their first three Ansett Cup matches at home, as they did this season. Their other two practice games also would be in Perth.

They have also asked to play home and away matches on alternate weeks, avoiding a repeat of this season's scheduling which will see them play consecutive games in Melbourne in rounds 15 and 16.

Though West Coast acknowledged that travel had a detrimental effect on the players, this was not the motivation for its plea.

Chief executive Trevor Nisbett said the club wanted the competition to be as equitable as possible.

"If we play all of our pre-season games at home, it will mean some of the Melbourne clubs, which travel about four times a year, will have to travel more often," he said.

"There is an indication that the AFL will try to make us travel less in the pre-season to make it more equitable."

Nisbett said that club research in the past 15 years indicated that extensive travel had a detrimental effect on players, making them more susceptible to fatigue and injury.

He said the scheduling of games and times, the availability of flights and inability to treat injuries were the major travel pitfalls.

"There is nothing conclusive that says travel shortens careers but it does interfere with rehabilitation because you can't schedule the flight to suit your needs," Nisbett said.

"It probably takes our players who receive soft tissue injuries in Melbourne longer to mend than others and we don't do anything abnormally different to other clubs."

The Eagles, in conjunction with Life Care, are conducting further research into the effects of travel.

West Coast premiership players Chris Mainwaring and Chris Waterman both believe they were disadvantaged by the constant travel.

Mainwaring, a dual premiership player, said it was not just the flights that affected players before away matches.

"It was the whole package that tired you out," he said. "There was the trip to the airport, the flight, the bus to the hotel, the night spent in a strange bed and the long journey back again. It all combined to take a toll."

Mainwaring estimated he had made about 130 return flights during his 201-match career with the Eagles. He reckoned he had flown a total of almost 950,000 kilometres.

"The flights certainly affected your recovery time," he said.

"Players are put in a high-pressure situation with soft tissue injuries that bleed while you're flying. That is why after a while the Eagles medical staff would take ice packs on the plane so we could get some treatment on the flight."

Waterman agreed with his former teammate, saying there was no doubt that the travel tired players.

"Unlike the Melbourne-based teams we couldn't just jump in the car and drive home," he said.

"Some Melbourne teams only travel three times a year and that is a bit unfair on the Dockers and Eagles."


So..... any takers for that $200,000? ;) Nah, thought not
 
Theres no doubt this has to be done. How many great football players (Kemp, McKenna, Heady, Mainy) do we have to lose earlier than expected because of injury. Matera got a soft tissue injury and could have been treated better if not for the ride home.

Something must be done and that sounds great. It looks as though the Saints and the Roos could use that cash.
 
Jod
Hate to disappoint you, but your club offered the Saints $300,000.00 to play a home game here next year & the Saints refused, saying their supporters already had to put up with being moved twice in recent times (shifting their home base) & they didn't want to alienate their supporters again, by them having 1 less home game for them to attend.
 
I hope the Dees don't take up the offer.!!
Its bad enough that they play an extra game in Brisbane for the next 5 years.

This travelling is part of being in a National competition.
West Coast joined the comp. realising they would need to travel, and now they want relief.
In the end we won't know who our home team is.!!!

I am afraid I don't have too much sympathy and I think the afl players are turning soft!!
What has to happen is that clubs need to increase the numbers on their lists, thus providing an interchange of players.
 

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What a bunch of soft people we have here. Nobody forced a side from WA to come into the league. They should have thought of this before they decided to enter.

I would expect to travel lots more than Melbourne sides if I were involved in a interstate side, and if I didn't like it, well it would just be tough luck. Even if it meant players finished their careers early. Get over it, or kick yourselves out of the league.


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Play on says the umpire
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the AFL's policies do nothing but help the VFL team survive
If we have to travel week in week out because "were in the AFL" then i say fine, but only if the AFL and the vic teams piss off and leave ALL WA talent to the WA teams, whatever players are left over they can have, bring back zoning and we will stop complaining, we must travel, and we must loose our players, not fair, i say its one of the other, 8-9 away games or zoning.
 
If the eagles shouldn't be helped with their travelling problems, then poor clubs in Vic shouldn't get help with their finances, underperforming clubs shouldn't get zones, etc!

The Roos got their 2001 share from the AFL almost a year early so they could pay their players, Brisbane has a 50km zone in which they can pick up any players they want without the threat of losing them to other teams. Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, and some other teams get "blockbuster" games scheduled every year so they can reap the profits from them.

Why shouldn't the eagles and freo get some help from the AFL? We don't get help with finances - the WAFL is $30million in dept because they forked out along with the eagles on renovating Subiaco, AFL does all that in Vic(Colonial and now the new stand at the MCG). We don't get zones like Brisbane do. We don't have away games at home like Sydney and Brisbane do. And quite frankly WA teams are treated like dirt by the AFL.

So why not ask the AFL for assistance? This way the WA teams benefit by not having to travel as much and the vic teams get a bit of profits aswell. It's not like West Coast and Fremantle have been unbeatable at home this year.
 
Originally posted by play on
What a bunch of soft people we have here. Nobody forced a side from WA to come into the league. They should have thought of this before they decided to enter.



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Play on says the umpire
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Spot on Play On;)
 
With the whole world against them, it makes you wonder how the weagles managed to win two Grand Finals.:rolleyes:
 
So Geelong, Melbourne, Kangaroos, Hawthorn and the Bulldogs have all knocked back the offer. Clubs will happily play their home games in Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Balranald etc. before p!ssweak crowds, but won't come to Perth even with a cash incentive of ~ $250,000. I'm glad I'm not a creditor of those clubs

And the "nobody forced the Eagles to join" argument has knobs on it. These player health issues are going to arise in any "national" competition. And put it in context - the Eagles have asked for their Aeroflot Cup games (at least one of which is already played in Perth) and one more season game in Perth. It's not like they asked for a home GF
 
What a crock.

The disavantage of being a W.A. side in the A.F.L. is that you have to travel to Australia 10 times a year.

The advantage of being a W.A. side in the A.F.L. is that you get to play 10 games a year against Australian clubs have had to travel to Perth.

These two factors cancel each other out.

As for the Melbourne-based clubs, sure we don't have to travel as much. But then we don't have the advantage of being the home side against an interstate visitor as often as you do.

Again, the two factors cancel each other out.

Stop your bloody grizzling.
 
Originally posted by AlfAndrews
What a crock.

The disavantage of being a W.A. side in the A.F.L. is that you have to travel to Australia 10 times a year.

The advantage of being a W.A. side in the A.F.L. is that you get to play 10 games a year against Australian clubs have had to travel to Perth.

These two factors cancel each other out.

Like hell they do. One team gets the wear and tear of travelling to/from WA 10 times, vs. 10 teams each getting the wear and tear of travelling once. How precisely does that cancel out?

As for the Melbourne-based clubs, sure we don't have to travel as much. But then we don't have the advantage of being the home side against an interstate visitor as often as you do.

Again, the two factors cancel each other out.

Let me get this straight. Your players retire prematurely but you have a better home ground advantage. Sorry, but that doesn't cancel out at all

Stop your bloody grizzling.

One more game at home in the H&A season, that's all that's being sought. Nobody seems to have a non-emotional answer as to why this is such a huge problem
 

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Originally posted by AlfAndrews
What a crock.

The disavantage of being a W.A. side in the A.F.L. is that you have to travel to Australia 10 times a year.

The advantage of being a W.A. side in the A.F.L. is that you get to play 10 games a year against Australian clubs have had to travel to Perth.

These two factors cancel each other out.

As for the Melbourne-based clubs, sure we don't have to travel as much. But then we don't have the advantage of being the home side against an interstate visitor as often as you do.

Again, the two factors cancel each other out.

Stop your bloody grizzling.

You really don't have any idea what you are talking about, do you?

The eagles don't want to travel less to have more home ground advantage, they just believe that covering something like 60,000km a year through travel (3000 each way times 10 games) is the cause of most eagles retiring early thorugh injuries and the reason why in the last 4yrs we have had the longest injury lists in the AFL.

So don't give us crap about home ground advantage when we all know that this isn't what the issue is about.
 
Players retire prematurely, my arse.

What an absolute load of unmitigated bollocks.

It's not as if they had to catch the friggin bus home. Where do you get this baloney about players retiring prematurely? What? Because they had to do a bit more jet-setting than the others. Oh, spare me.

How friggin soft are they if they've gotta reitire prematurely because of all that hard strenuous air travel. It's no more strenuous to catch a plane from Melbourne to Perth than it is to drive your friggin car through Melbourne suburban traffic. In fact it's a lot less stressful, I would imagine.

God, I've heard some crap in my time. But this is an absolute doozy.

Players retire prematurely because of too much air travel! What a pisser.

LOL ... in fact, I'd go so far as to say ROTFLMFAO.

God. I must be due for the pension. Catching that No.11 tram every day. That's hard work!!!

ROTFLMFAO ... ROTFLMFAO

Sorry. I just can't help it. That is just so bloody stupid.

Oh no!!!!

It's the Johnston St. bus!!!

There goes my anterior cruciate ligament!!!!!!!!!!

ROTFLMFAO ... ROTFLMFAO

You people crack me up.
 
I wouldnt care if the Dogs played a "FEW" games in the west, if it means getting more money and stabilising the club.
 
Originally posted by AlfAndrews
(original comment and a lot of laughing and rolling around snipped)

Well, thank you Doctor AlfAndrews. Why don't you go away and do a bit of research on the topic by actually reading the original article. And catch a flight from Melbourne to Perth and back while you're at it, so you can compare it to the No 11 tram
 
I saw an interview where your own WA Football commission researched it, CarnEagles -- and it proved inconclusive.

Given that, I reckon your points re travel are valid, but Alf's posts also had a lot of merit, and were pretty f*ckin funny too. :D



But in regards to whether I would be prepared to see us play games in Perth - If it was to our benefit and made our fight for survival a little easier, then YES.

But will it be to our benefit? The figure mooted in the same article a few weeks ago, was in the vicinity of $450,000 - big difference to the figure suggested now.

I don't believe $200,000 is as large a figure as it seems:-

Firstly, to cover it, a deal has to be arranged with a rival Vic team to have our members enter for 'free' to their home match as compensation for this game. If ten thousand of our members turn up, that represents approx. $100,000 our club must pay to the other club for revenue they have lost. Hence, half of the figure suggested by the Eagles - [/b]GONE[/b].

Then you have to consider the effect such a move will have on memberships levels in general. We are already playing a 'home' game in Sydney, and such a deal with West Coast could be the final straw to some supporters who would feel that the club doesn't care about 'em, so don't purchase a membership in protest. Let's just say 1000 members decide that enough is enough, and decide that they wont renew - another $100,000 GONE. Don't forget the fact that I've ignored factors such as increased travelling costs etc.

So, what's the result? We are in the same (maybe even a worse) position financially, except with a pissed off supporter base, have had to travel when it wasn't required, and lost our home ground advantage. Doesn't seem that appealing now, does it?

Another thing Carn Eagles -- the cash incentives from Canberra, Sydney and Brisbane are equal to, if not greater than the Eagles current offer -- AND satisfy the AFL's current criteria to expand the game in developing markets -- unlike WA.

Don't get me wrong - good on West Coast for taking on the initiative to help out their team -- but the proposal isn't as simplistic as it seems on the surface.

I'll also question whether a large crowd would turn out. Some games are getting around 25,000 at Eagles home games these days, and it would definitely be a lot less than that if supporters have to pay, with the knowledge that the money is not even going to their club.

I posted a similar topic as this on the Freo board, to see whether they would attend - and none of them repsonded, which give rise to doubts on whether it would be successful. A couple of Eagle's supporters replied with a positive response, so hopefully I'm wrong, but I still think the game would get little over 15,000 people. If the $200,000 they suggested wasn't guaranteed, and instead based on "estimations of 30,000 people attending", the match could be an absolute financial disaster for us.

It isn't whether supporters are dedicated/ bandwagoners etc, but more the match's lack of appeal (which would be the case for game against the likes of the Bulldogs), and the fact that many supporters aren't prepared to pay money over and above their season ticket.

You want clubs to play home games there? Increase the lure - the $450,000 figure is a more realistic carrot to dangle, and I doubt many teams would dismiss it as quickly as they have here. I mean, in our case, it could prove the difference between incurring a bad loss or turning over a healthy profit.

Even $450,000 isn't such a a huge figure in context of your club's financies -- based on your sold out membership base, @ an average of $250 for a season ticket, your club nets about $900,000 a game -- i.e. relatively, paying $450,000 to a Vic club for a game there is only providing half of the normal profits (exluding catering earnings etc) you usually make per match.

Don't take it as criticism of the Eagles that clubs aren't prepared to play home games there for that figure..... it's just that the ramifications don't give Victorian clubs enough confidence in playing a game there. Cost Vs Benefit. Pure and simple.
 
Personally i would never want my team to play a home game at an away ground. And the points Westy Boy stated make an even stronger case against accepting the offer.

Would the offer however look more attractive if the eagles offered $200,000 PLUS all profits taken on the day. This would ensure that at the worst the bulldogs would come away with at least $100,000 more than had they played at home(this of course is including all the points Westy Boy mentioned)??
 

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Ok I agree with many of the points raised about increased home games for the WA clubs.But lets face it my fellow sandgropers the chances of this are slim to none.


These premature retiring of your star players excuse for the eagles poor form is utter crap.Lets get a few things straight here, the reason your club is playing poorly is due to terrible drafting since the golden years of 89-94.Once again eagle supporters are having problems facing facts.

1.There club will be in a rebuilding phase for a long time
2.The Golden years are a long way away, the 89 draft (I think) where they drafted top young west australians was a fluke.

No more excuses eagle supporters.
Your club isnt down the bottom because of travel
It isnt down the bottom because of premature retirement
It isnt down the bottom because of lack of home games.

Its down the bottom due to poor drafting and down right arrogance.

Time to face the music eagle supporters.
 
I have to admit I couldn't see why the clubs would dismiss the Perth proposal out of hand whilst agreeing to other venues. Various theories came to mind - that they don't want to go through the travel headaches, that they didn't want to give the Eagles a gimme like Melbourne gave Brisbane (less likely :( ), or that the Eagles had simply missed the boat. (On that point, is the WB Sydney game a one-off, or have the Bulldogs committed to future games there?)

Travelling costs would be met by the AFL, as would West Coast's if the travel was in the other direction, so that's not really a factor.

The effect on memberships also came to mind, but who really knows what that would be, or why a Perth home game has to be a negative, particularly if the club sells the concept in a sensitive manner

As for the crowd, the Eagles are still drawing 25k for some abysmal performances, which have generally culled out the glitterati/bandwagoners from the Subiaco max of 42k. So you could expect at least that number again for an Eagles away game, and more if the Eagles finally extract the digit. The only real comparison we have (except for a Brisbane Bears home game many years ago, moved to Perth due to a cyclone) is the last Dockers home Derby, for which Eagles supporters had to buy a ticket. The game drew just shy of 39k, compared to 19k for the last Dockers home game - not really an exact comparison given the WCE/Freo rivalry, but there's a bit of history between WCE and the Dogs as well (damn you Danny Southern!) so it wouldn't take too much to get the numbers up. (I was one of the posters who responded to you on the Freo board, by the way)

I guess the Eagles' offer just doesn't match the AFL cash already given to play over east in developing markets. If the money was even close to the same you'd have to stay on the east coast. It's a bit hard to really comment without seeing the actual figures - which have no doubt been given to the clubs concerned - to know if they're rubbery or not. I do remember $400,000 being bandied about the other week, so you'd have to be a bit suss

As for increasing the lure - maybe the Eagles will throw more money into the pot, but given that the Eagles are financially propping up the WAFC/WAFL (particularly with Freo slated to post a loss) it gets to a point where the club may be prevented by other factors
 
If they gave all those concessions to West Coast and Freo then why not to all of the other interstate clubs?

Brisbane had to travel all over the country and even to NZ and were promised a home Ansett Cup Grand Final if they made it that far but they broke their promise!

West Coast won 2 premierships with the current system so I think it's the team not the travel.
 

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