News Lower Delisted

[Fred Ziffel]

He was still better than 11 other players though I guess which is my point. He was a very handy depth player.

Anyway, it's done, I'm upset about it, but unfortunately like so many other decisions that are made, I just have to accept it. Thank Christ I like the chevron jumpers

That's two of us . Would like a more purple shade though.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

and I guess you think they traded Broughts cause he was worth pick 37?

Not at all. I rated Broughton and was surprised when he was traded.
Ross Lyon doesn't share my opinion though or care what I think.
Given there wasn't many clubs who could afford Greg's contract, pick 37 was probably the best we could get.

 

[pistol17]

It only would have been a waste of time if the last picked player we get this year becomes better than him, that is what depth is. I highly doubt whoever we pick with our last rookie pick will offer more than lower. I'm
Not sure that some of our listed players will either

Lower would alse cost more than our last rookie selection would cost. The guy is so over rated on this board, if he stayed at freo he wouldnt have played seniors at all in 2013.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Lower would alse cost more than our last rookie selection would cost. The guy is so over rated on this board, if he stayed at freo he wouldnt have played seniors at all in 2013.

With the state of our salary cap... Who cares if he cost an extra 100k. We still have bucket loads of salary cap
Space. And as for not getting a game, all it would have taken was one injury to Deboer, Barlow or mundy and he would have gotten the nod. I know your thoughts on him, but you can't say that he wouldn't offer more to our side as a reserve than a last round rookie pick or the like. He averaged 25 touches and 7 tackles in the games he played for us last year.... If lachie neale averaged that he would in reality be Jesus for some people on here. But this isn't about how good neale or sheridan or sutcliffe may be in four years time, it's about what they will offer in 2013 if they have to be relied upon because of injury. None of them would give as much as lower would.

And let's face it, when was the last time we managed to keep our number one midfield on the park. I can't remember when that was

 

[paul8241]

With the state of our salary cap... Who cares if he cost an extra 100k. We still have bucket loads of salary cap
Space. And as for not getting a game, all it would have taken was one injury to Deboer, Barlow or mundy and he would have gotten the nod. I know your thoughts on him, but you can't say that he wouldn't offer more to our side as a reserve than a last round rookie pick or the like. He averaged 25 touches and 7 tackles in the games he played for us last year.... If lachie neale averaged that he would in reality be Jesus for some people on here. But this isn't about how good neale or sheridan or sutcliffe may be in four years time, it's about what they will offer in 2013 if they have to be relied upon because of injury. None of them would give as much as lower would.

And let's face it, when was the last time we managed to keep our number one midfield on the park. I can't remember when that was

Funny how I keep hearing the word overrated with Lower. So many were too blinded by his shortfalls to recognise his talents. If they stopped running him down, I wouldn't feel the overwhelming need to keep defending him.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Funny how I keep hearing the word overrated with Lower. So many were too blinded by his shortfalls to recognise his talents. If they stopped running him down, I wouldn't feel the overwhelming need to keep defending him.

Who has run him down ?

 

[paul8241]

Who has run him down ?

Anybody that starts by stating his limitations undervalues his strengths. Anybody who compares him with players that do not play in the same position. He is an inside clearance player, that was always the expectation, he does it very well.

If you are talking about Hill or Pav do you hone in on their high skill areas or focus on their limitations. People make excuses for other players because of the things they do well. This is no different.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Anybody that starts by stating his limitations undervalues his strengths. Anybody who compares him with players that do not play in the same position. He is an inside clearance player, that was always the expectation, he does it very well.

If you are talking about Hill or Pav do you hone in on their high skill areas or focus on their limitations. People make excuses for other players because of the things they do well. This is no different.

It's human nature, when I watch mzungu play, unfortunately I focus in on his poor kicking etc. everyone has a player or two who they don't rate etc and it is not easy to make comment without bias. I know what you mean about the feeling of having to defend players, I think that is partially the reason why I like Dawson, on top of the fact he is a solid defender. Hypocritical for me to make comment given my outspoken ways with some players.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

I reckon that's debatable. He's on par with Mzungu and Clancee, but he has different strengths. Strengths which apparently aren't required at Freo under Lyon. And it's difficult to prove that Subcliffe, Neale, sheridan or Crozier are better players. Lower wouldn't have played many games, but it's harsh to say that he isn't good enough.

Are you seriously suggesting that Lower is higher ranked and ahead of Neale and Croz?? Seriously??

 

[DMan 11]

Are you seriously suggesting that Lower is higher ranked and ahead of Neale and Croz?? Seriously??

I think the point was Lower may be stronger in 2013 than some of those guys. Taking Paul's and KPR's views into account I agree that Lower would offer more as an inside mid and would be first called for that position if any other match committee was making the call. If we compare apples for apples there wasn't any one else in WAFL pulling the numbers as an inside mid that Lower was last year when he finally got on the park in half decent shape. My concern, like others, is that the strong body required as an inside mid just isn't there yet on the kids POTENTIALLY some are suggesting take his place in the 22. Would guess Ross is smart enough to run the barlow', deboer, clancee and who knows (suggestions here) as the hard at it inside mids. I question Barlow in this capacity though, only deboer has the kamikaze and intent lower had.

Edit- throw king Fyfe into that inside mid mix....once he has knocked the OP for 6

 

[Nickos66]

Are you seriously suggesting that Lower is higher ranked and ahead of Neale and Croz?? Seriously??

In 2013? Yes.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Are you seriously suggesting that Lower is higher ranked and ahead of Neale and Croz?? Seriously??

Absolutely, those young lads will probably overtake Lower in the next few years but for now Lower is a better player IMO. Having said that he plays a dif. possie to Crozier and Subcliffe. Easier to make a direct comparison with Neale who showed some some really good signs this year.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Well, I guess I shall just have to disagree then. IMHO, right now, no way is Lower ahead of any of Neale, Croz, Mello, Sheridan or Simpson. And arguably Sloth-slothy and Michie would be ahead of him too I reckon...

I'd have kept Broughts, but now way is Lower the loss that most on here are suggesting, if only because his absence will truly put the heat on the up and coming gunyunguns, instead of clogging the list with another mid tier 25 year old who plays 6 or 8 games a year...

Clancee, Mz, DePig, Barlow, Mundy, Crowley and either of Ballas and Fyfe can play that mid role at least as well as Lower (in terms of overall effectiveness and hurt on the scoreboard). I reckon young kids like Neale, Shero, Simpson, Shlothe and Mello will be in the mix by round 6 or 7 too...

 

[paul8241]

Are you seriously suggesting that Lower is higher ranked and ahead of Neale and Croz?? Seriously??

Yes, for all the same reasons stated above

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Well, I guess I shall just have to disagree then. IMHO, right now, no way is Lower ahead of any of Neale, Croz, Mello, Sheridan or Simpson. And arguably Sloth-slothy and Michie would be ahead of him too I reckon...

I'd have kept Broughts, but now way is Lower the loss that most on here are suggesting, if only because his absence will truly put the heat on the up and coming gunyunguns, instead of clogging the list with another mid tier 25 year old who plays 6 or 8 games a year...

Clancee, Mz, DePig, Barlow, Mundy, Crowley and either of Ballas and Fyfe can play that mid role at least as well as Lower (in terms of overall effectiveness and hurt on the scoreboard). I reckon young kids like Neale, Shero, Simpson, Shlothe and Mello will be in the mix by round 6 or 7 too...

So you think that if Barlow gets injured, and we are playing Geelong that neale would have more of an impact in 2013 than what lower would?.... That's crazy talk

 

[caterina]

• Not sure why anyone would think moving Lower on this way was planned, it clearly wasn't.
• He was depth but exactly the type of depth we need.
• We got nothing for him when we could have got something.
• Any number of the young guys mentioned may turn out to be better players, but they are not battle ready now when our premiership window is allegedly open.

But apart from those few minor points, it was a genius move by Bond to delist him

 

[paul8241]

Well, I guess I shall just have to disagree then. IMHO, right now, no way is Lower ahead of any of Neale, Croz, Mello, Sheridan or Simpson. And arguably Sloth-slothy and Michie would be ahead of him too I reckon...

I'd have kept Broughts, but now way is Lower the loss that most on here are suggesting, if only because his absence will truly put the heat on the up and coming gunyunguns, instead of clogging the list with another mid tier 25 year old who plays 6 or 8 games a year...

Clancee, Mz, DePig, Barlow, Mundy, Crowley and either of Ballas and Fyfe can play that mid role at least as well as Lower (in terms of overall effectiveness and hurt on the scoreboard). I reckon young kids like Neale, Shero, Simpson, Shlothe and Mello will be in the mix by round 6 or 7 too...

Each of those players bring different skills, but not all as clearance players. The effectiveness of some of those players depends on who gets first hands. Can't hurt on the scoreboard if it's moving the other way.

 

[Moo]

GABOS

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

So you think that if Barlow gets injured, and we are playing Geelong that neale would have more of an impact in 2013 than what lower would?.... That's crazy talk

I guess we will agree to disagree. I happen to think Neale and Croz can step in ahead of Lower right now.

I also note that you ignore the first 8 names I have quoted, and zero in on the young kids. Hardly surprising, given your hatred of Clancee and Mz. If 3 or more of Clancee, Mz, DePig, Barlow, Mundy, Crowley, Ballas and Fyfe are out injured, we will be struggling - with or without magic man Brownlow winning king of all footballers Lower on our list. And, far from crazy talk, the games played in 2012 clearly show that Neale is already a better inside mid and more effective forward than Lower. Just IMHO.

• Not sure why anyone would think moving Lower on this way was planned, it clearly wasn't.
• He was depth but exactly the type of depth we need.
• We got nothing for him when we could have got something.
• Any number of the young guys mentioned may turn out to be better players, but they are not battle ready now when our premiership window is allegedly open.

But apart from those few minor points, it was a genius move by Bond to delist him

Dunno why you needed to refer to Bond in responding to my post, in the last ten weeks you have gone from being a reasonable, objective poster on here to being totally fixated on bagging anything and everything Bond, all because (with the PSD and Rookie draft still to come) he has dared to not deliver something that aligns with exactly what you, the genius of football, wanted. Not one of your posts has set out a positive, clear approach to 2013 - just constant carping and bagging of Bond.

BTW, I never said moving Lower on was planned, in terms of the initial plan.

I do think we did plan (when the trades offered for Ibbo, Moller, Robbo and Broughts fell through) to drop him to the rookie list, or at best redraft through the PSD on a one year contract (no different to the way we have offered one year contracts to the likes of Kep, Clancee and Crowls and others in the last few years). The fact Nick and his manager got a better offer from elsewhere is great for all parties - Nick doesn't have to wallow in the WAFL, we get to pick an extra new player (be they a PSD or recycled rookie or a genuine new rookie), Bullies get a potential journeyman decent inside depth mid - plus, BF know it all geniuses (especially haters from other teams, and the whingers and whiners on this board) get yet another reason to bag "Bond, Lloyd, and all things Freo" for "Fremantling" the trading and draft period.

Personally, I will wait until the end of the PSD and rookie drafts before passing judgment, and even then I will always favour the development of the likes of Neale, Croz, Mello and Shero/Simpson ahead of a known quantity like Lower.

Some of you just need to get past your hatred of Bond, Clancee and Mz.

 

[Crippa]

• Not sure why anyone would think moving Lower on this way was planned, it clearly wasn't.
• He was depth but exactly the type of depth we need.
• We got nothing for him when we could have got something.
• Any number of the young guys mentioned may turn out to be better players, but they are not battle ready now when our premiership window is allegedly open.

But apart from those few minor points, it was a genius move by Bond to delist him

Agreed absolutely. That is the glaring point that has rather been missed here.

 

[Nickos66]

I guess we will agree to disagree. I happen to think Neale and Croz can step in ahead of Lower right now.

I also note that you ignore the first 8 names I have quoted, and zero in on the young kids. Hardly surprising, given your hatred of Clancee and Mz. If 3 or more of Clancee, Mz, DePig, Barlow, Mundy, Crowley, Ballas and Fyfe are out injured, we will be struggling - with or without magic man Brownlow winning king of all footballers Lower on our list. And, far from crazy talk, the games played in 2012 clearly show that Neale is already a better inside mid and more effective forward than Lower. Just IMHO.



Dunno why you needed to refer to Bond in responding to my post, in the last ten weeks you have gone from being a reasonable, objective poster on here to being totally fixated on bagging anything and everything Bond, all because (with the PSD and Rookie draft still to come) he has dared to not deliver something that aligns with exactly what you, the genius of football, wanted. Not one of your posts has set out a positive, clear approach to 2013 - just constant carping and bagging of Bond.

BTW, I never said moving Lower on was planned, in terms of the initial plan.

I do think we did plan (when the trades offered for Ibbo, Moller, Robbo and Broughts fell through) to drop him to the rookie list, or at best redraft through the PSD on a one year contract (no different to the way we have offered one year contracts to the likes of Kep, Clancee and Crowls and others in the last few years). The fact Nick and his manager got a better offer from elsewhere is great for all parties - Nick doesn't have to wallow in the WAFL, we get to pick an extra new player (be they a PSD or recycled rookie or a genuine new rookie), Bullies get a potential journeyman decent inside depth mid - plus, BF know it all geniuses (especially haters from other teams, and the whingers and whiners on this board) get yet another reason to bag "Bond, Lloyd, and all things Freo" for "Fremantling" the trading and draft period.

Personally, I will wait until the end of the PSD and rookie drafts before passing judgment, and even then I will always favour the development of the likes of Neale, Croz, Mello and Shero/Simpson ahead of a known quantity like Lower.

Some of you just need to get past your hatred of Bond, Clancee and Mz.

I don't hate any of these guys so what's my angle? You're still wrong.

Croz or Neale filling Lower's role now? C'mon. do they average 27 possies & 7 clearances a game? I have no idea how you can fathom that Neale is currently a better player than Lower. Our window's open NOW, so we need the best depth possible - NOW. As KPR said, Mundy/Barlow/Fyfe gets injured in the lead up to a game against the battle hardened Cats or Pies? They aren't going to be your clearance kings now, nor your ball accumulators, they don't yet know the meaning of hard work and gut running required in the 4th quarter of a clutch do-or-die final..

Forget about after the PSD & Rookie drafts, i'm holding out til the end of 2013 to see what could've been in a 2 horse race for clearance numbers with Sandi for 2013 - plying his trade at the Doggies.

 

[paul8241]

I guess we will agree to disagree. I happen to think Neale and Croz can step in ahead of Lower right now.

I also note that you ignore the first 8 names I have quoted, and zero in on the young kids. Hardly surprising, given your hatred of Clancee and Mz. If 3 or more of Clancee, Mz, DePig, Barlow, Mundy, Crowley, Ballas and Fyfe are out injured, we will be struggling - with or without magic man Brownlow winning king of all footballers Lower on our list. And, far from crazy talk, the games played in 2012 clearly show that Neale is already a better inside mid and more effective forward than Lower. Just IMHO.



Dunno why you needed to refer to Bond in responding to my post, in the last ten weeks you have gone from being a reasonable, objective poster on here to being totally fixated on bagging anything and everything Bond, all because (with the PSD and Rookie draft still to come) he has dared to not deliver something that aligns with exactly what you, the genius of football, wanted. Not one of your posts has set out a positive, clear approach to 2013 - just constant carping and bagging of Bond.

BTW, I never said moving Lower on was planned, in terms of the initial plan.

I do think we did plan (when the trades offered for Ibbo, Moller, Robbo and Broughts fell through) to drop him to the rookie list, or at best redraft through the PSD on a one year contract (no different to the way we have offered one year contracts to the likes of Kep, Clancee and Crowls and others in the last few years). The fact Nick and his manager got a better offer from elsewhere is great for all parties - Nick doesn't have to wallow in the WAFL, we get to pick an extra new player (be they a PSD or recycled rookie or a genuine new rookie), Bullies get a potential journeyman decent inside depth mid - plus, BF know it all geniuses (especially haters from other teams, and the whingers and whiners on this board) get yet another reason to bag "Bond, Lloyd, and all things Freo" for "Fremantling" the trading and draft period.

Personally, I will wait until the end of the PSD and rookie drafts before passing judgment, and even then I will always favour the development of the likes of Neale, Croz, Mello and Shero/Simpson ahead of a known quantity like Lower.

Some of you just need to get past your hatred of Bond, Clancee and Mz.

Don't hate any of these 3. I also think the trade period has not been Bond's best work, but what's done is done.

 

[Paracleet]

I don't hate any of these guys so what's my angle? You're still wrong.

Croz or Neale filling Lower's role now? C'mon. do they average 27 possies & 7 clearances a game? I have no idea how you can fathom that Neale is currently a better player than Lower. Our window's open NOW, so we need the best depth possible - NOW. As KPR said, Mundy/Barlow/Fyfe gets injured in the lead up to a game against the battle hardened Cats or Pies? They aren't going to be your clearance kings now, nor your ball accumulators, they don't yet know the meaning of hard work and gut running required in the 4th quarter of a clutch do-or-die final..

Forget about after the PSD & Rookie drafts, i'm holding out til the end of 2013 to see what could've been in a 2 horse race for clearance numbers with Sandi for 2013 - plying his trade at the Doggies.

His stats in three games are irrelevant unless you believe he would have continued to average the same across 6, 12 or a whole seasons worth of games. If the club did he wouldn't have been the first one picked when the unplanned retirement caused them to have to make an unplanned delistment. Now of course eveyone is entitled to their view, but surely it must be clear that the club do value those players higher and believe that his short term value is too marginal to justify his retention under the circumstances that occured.

 

[caterina]

Dunno why you needed to refer to Bond in responding to my post,

.

Well I wasn't responding to your post, or at least not consciously. I was pretty much giving my opinion on why I don't think delisting Lower as happened was a good outcome. Which you and others don't agree with, sort of what makes for a discussion forum.

Some of you just need to get past your hatred of Bond, Clancee and Mz.

What hatred? I think the guy makes lots of right decisions and is clearly talented. He is just absoultely crap IMO at one thing, which is trading. He can't trade in players he himself identifies we need, and he can't trade away players for their true value.

he has dared to not deliver something that aligns with exactly what you, the genius of football, wanted. Not one of your posts has set out a positive, clear approach to 2013 - just constant carping and bagging of Bond.

Genius? I think you are confusing me with someone else. If by positive posts you mean I am not on the board talking about how we have the best list in the history of the club, how this off season has been a triumph and how we are going to win the flag next year, then I guess you are right I am not positive. I'll try and remember next time I post that I should be proselytising all things Freo

 

[Nothing]

If you were Freo's list manager (or any other club trying to improve towards finals football) and you had the opportunity to trade in Broughton, Lower and Roberton under the cicrumstances presented (through the best of our knowledge) what would you give up?
Broughton - big contract, never played a full season, Good shutdown defender (on Stevie J), can run through the midfield
Lower - played 3 games due to injury, suspension (and luck maybe), questions on skills, not quick, can tackle
Roberton - moved back to Vic, doesn't understand how to operate little machinery, Slowish, developing, OK skills

I'd wait for Roberton to be available in one of the free agent periods, I'd at most offer pick 50 for Lower and at most pick 30 for Broughton. More than likely, I'd be hoping that one of Broughton and Lower were available as a free agent.

If these 3 were available, I wouldn't be going out of my way to get them to Freo. At their best they might be good enough to improve a side to get them a chance at playing finals. But at Lower and Broughton's age you prbably aren't getting any more improvement from them. They are not the difference maker between taking a top 8 side to top 4 or premiership. If you view them capable of changing Richmond/Saints/etc to a finals side in 2013 then we have erred.

I think all 3 have the ablity to forge AFL careers, but all of them are replacable with a 100 other people of similar ilk.