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News Lower Delisted

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Kickett Punches Read said:
With the state of our salary cap... Who cares if he cost an extra 100k. We still have bucket loads of salary cap space.
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I don't think this is the correct line of thinking. Do you think we are going to have space in the salary cap in 2013? We will not. We will pay 100%. That 100k will go straight into the bank account of Fyfe (or similar), and then we move the salary cap space to a future year for a free agent (or our current youngsters).
 
caterina said:
Well I wasn't responding to your post, or at least not consciously. I was pretty much giving my opinion on why I don't think delisting Lower as happened was a good outcome. Which you and others don't agree with, sort of what makes for a discussion forum.



What hatred? I think the guy makes lots of right decisions and is clearly talented. He is just absoultely crap IMO at one thing, which is trading. He can't trade in players he himself identifies we need, and he can't trade away players for their true value.



Genius? I think you are confusing me with someone else. If by positive posts you mean I am not on the board talking about how we have the best list in the history of the club, how this off season has been a triumph and how we are going to win the flag next year, then I guess you are right I am not positive. I'll try and remember next time I post that I should be proselytising all things Freo
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Pretty effective rebuttal.

BPG is usually a better debater. Booze 'n post?
 

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BeinPurplenGreen said:
I guess we will agree to disagree. I happen to think Neale and Croz can step in ahead of Lower right now.

I also note that you ignore the first 8 names I have quoted, and zero in on the young kids. Hardly surprising, given your hatred of Clancee and Mz. If 3 or more of Clancee, Mz, DePig, Barlow, Mundy, Crowley, Ballas and Fyfe are out injured, we will be struggling - with or without magic man Brownlow winning king of all footballers Lower on our list. And, far from crazy talk, the games played in 2012 clearly show that Neale is already a better inside mid and more effective forward than Lower. Just IMHO.



Dunno why you needed to refer to Bond in responding to my post, in the last ten weeks you have gone from being a reasonable, objective poster on here to being totally fixated on bagging anything and everything Bond, all because (with the PSD and Rookie draft still to come) he has dared to not deliver something that aligns with exactly what you, the genius of football, wanted. Not one of your posts has set out a positive, clear approach to 2013 - just constant carping and bagging of Bond.

BTW, I never said moving Lower on was planned, in terms of the initial plan.

I do think we did plan (when the trades offered for Ibbo, Moller, Robbo and Broughts fell through) to drop him to the rookie list, or at best redraft through the PSD on a one year contract (no different to the way we have offered one year contracts to the likes of Kep, Clancee and Crowls and others in the last few years). The fact Nick and his manager got a better offer from elsewhere is great for all parties - Nick doesn't have to wallow in the WAFL, we get to pick an extra new player (be they a PSD or recycled rookie or a genuine new rookie), Bullies get a potential journeyman decent inside depth mid - plus, BF know it all geniuses (especially haters from other teams, and the whingers and whiners on this board) get yet another reason to bag "Bond, Lloyd, and all things Freo" for "Fremantling" the trading and draft period.

Personally, I will wait until the end of the PSD and rookie drafts before passing judgment, and even then I will always favour the development of the likes of Neale, Croz, Mello and Shero/Simpson ahead of a known quantity like Lower.

Some of you just need to get past your hatred of Bond, Clancee and Mz.
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This has got nothing to do with my dislike, not hatred, of Pearce and mzungu. This is about dealing with the loss of inside mids if we have injuries and replacements for them. Mzungu is not an inside mid. I haven't ignored any names. I just can't see a 19 year old lachie neale matching it in 2013 with the powerhouse midfields of the afl. Lower is a proven clearance winner, and has a big body able to make an impact.

If Deboer or Barlow or mundy, who in my mind are our only true inside mids, go down we are going to need ready made replacements, neale at his age and size would get smashed by the seasoned bodies of a team like Geelong, which is why lower would have been great depth. He could have taken the load, at least for this year while the younglings develop. At the end of 2013 or 2014 would have been a better time to offload him if that's what they wanted, but right now I don't see how losing lower could possibly help us. Especially since we have already lost hardened bodies in broughton, McPhee and to a lesser degree Roberton. Baffles me that we could let this happen.

And let's not forget what sort of a game style we play. Hard at the ball, hard at the man, attack through defence football. It is a game plan that needs seasoned big body footballers, we arent essendon under knights, or north melbourne of last year, our plan is revolved around tough uncomprimising football. we seem to be losing our foot soldiers hand over fist, not just our best 22 but our back ups as well.
 
Alfonz said:
I don't think this is the correct line of thinking. Do you think we are going to have space in the salary cap in 2013? We will not. We will pay 100%. That 100k will go straight into the bank account of Fyfe (or similar), and then we move the salary cap space to a future year for a free agent (or our current youngsters).
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Which is why we shouldn't have paid out his 1 year left on his contract, and even if he wasn't under contract, just offer him 1 year and reevaluate at the end of 2013
 
I'm hoping we are effectively swapping the depth Lower gave us in the midfield for some cover at the tall ends of the ground because as great as it would be for Lower to line up in the midfield ahead of some of the young kids, should we have an injury, there is nobody to take the key forward roles.

I think having a second, not a 5th, 6th or 7th option, up forward is worth giving up our next choice midfielder. It would have been preferable to have gotten something in a trade but our main competition for key forwards is the Bulldogs and he took a spot on their list prior to the draft.

In summary, should we draft some big key position players, losing Lower isn't the end of the world. Having Nick on the list would have been for nothing if a key position forward went down with injury and there are other players who can take Lower's place albeit only a 75%-80% contribution, but that's better than having to implement an entirely new game plan because we no longer have anyone up forward to kick to.
 
Our inside midfield depth aint bad:

Mundy, Barlow, Fyfe, C.Pearce, DeBoer would be my top 5 choices for 2013 and all capable of playing inside games as good as Lower and mostly better. Then add Neale, Morabito, Suban, Sutcliffe, Sheridan as the brigade not quite ready with the potential for 2-3 to be ready come 2013.
 
Tayl0r said:
I'm hoping we are effectively swapping the depth Lower gave us in the midfield for some cover at the tall ends of the ground because as great as it would be for Lower to line up in the midfield ahead of some of the young kids, should we have an injury, there is nobody to take the key forward roles.

I think having a second, not a 5th, 6th or 7th option, up forward is worth giving up our next choice midfielder. It would have been preferable to have gotten something in a trade but our main competition for key forwards is the Bulldogs and he took a spot on their list prior to the draft.

In summary, should we draft some big key position players, losing Lower isn't the end of the world. Having Nick on the list would have been for nothing if a key position forward went down with injury and there are other players who can take Lower's place albeit only a 75%-80% contribution, but that's better than having to implement an entirely new game plan because we no longer have anyone up forward to kick to.
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Pragmatism won't get you far here.
 
BeinPurplenGreen said:
Are you seriously suggesting that Lower is higher ranked and ahead of Neale and Croz?? Seriously??
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On potential and talent, no. On current ability, yes. If Neale (or crozier) were to line up on Lower in the centre square in round 2 next year, I'd back Lower to win more clearances and contested possessions. I'd rather have Neale or Crozier on my list than Lower, but I'd rather have Lower in my team in a must win game next year.
 
BeinPurplenGreen said:
Well, I guess I shall just have to disagree then. IMHO, right now, no way is Lower ahead of any of Neale, Croz, Mello, Sheridan or Simpson. And arguably Sloth-slothy and Michie would be ahead of him too I reckon...

I'd have kept Broughts, but now way is Lower the loss that most on here are suggesting, if only because his absence will truly put the heat on the up and coming gunyunguns, instead of clogging the list with another mid tier 25 year old who plays 6 or 8 games a year...

Clancee, Mz, DePig, Barlow, Mundy, Crowley and either of Ballas and Fyfe can play that mid role at least as well as Lower (in terms of overall effectiveness and hurt on the scoreboard). I reckon young kids like Neale, Shero, Simpson, Shlothe and Mello will be in the mix by round 6 or 7 too...
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The only thing that stands out for me is that Crozier doesn't play the same possie as Lower so hard ot compare, Sloth has played a mixture of ressie and league games for souths. Some good some average and he and Simpson are yet to be proven in the AFL. So it's hard to say they are better than Lower.
 

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pavsbootlace said:
On potential and talent, no. On current ability, yes. If Neale (or crozier) were to line up on Lower in the centre square in round 2 next year, I'd back Lower to win more clearances and contested possessions. I'd rather have Neale or Crozier on my list than Lower, but I'd rather have Lower in my team in a must win game next year.
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Bingo.
 
Tayl0r said:
I'm hoping we are effectively swapping the depth Lower gave us in the midfield for some cover at the tall ends of the ground because as great as it would be for Lower to line up in the midfield ahead of some of the young kids, should we have an injury, there is nobody to take the key forward roles.

I think having a second, not a 5th, 6th or 7th option, up forward is worth giving up our next choice midfielder. It would have been preferable to have gotten something in a trade but our main competition for key forwards is the Bulldogs and he took a spot on their list prior to the draft.

In summary, should we draft some big key position players, losing Lower isn't the end of the world. Having Nick on the list would have been for nothing if a key position forward went down with injury and there are other players who can take Lower's place albeit only a 75%-80% contribution, but that's better than having to implement an entirely new game plan because we no longer have anyone up forward to kick to.
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thats fair enough. we need KPP depth, i would have rathered that depth be created with Crichton's spot on the list.

Pavsbootlace articulated it perfectly, paraphrasing but effectively, "for talent and future id rather crozier, sheridan, neale, for a big game in 2013 Id rather lower"
 

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