News Lower Delisted

[pavsbootlace]

That's true, but there really wasn't anyone else we could have delisted at the time to have our 3 picks in the draft

We could have delisted Jack Anthony. He also had a year to run on his contract.

Faulks could have been delisted too.

 

[Bender571]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/af...western-bulldogs/story-e6frg1xu-1226530832343

It's only my opnion but I stil feel it was a very amateur move by the club. Now we have to pay out a player that we still wanted on the list.

It's my understanding that at least part of a delisted players contract is taken on by the new club.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

That's true, but there really wasn't anyone else we could have delisted at the time to have our 3 picks in the draft

we could have done the exact same thing with say, peter faulks or even viv michie and no other team would have picked them up... alas, it is done

 

[Freo_4eva]

This isnt a slight on Nick Lower who i like and is a handy foot soldier, but if he stayed and had a major impact on our 2013 i dare say we havent made Top 4 and hence are not competing with the big boys anyway.. I would be surprised if he finished in the WB top 10 B & F who are ordinary

And its also pretty obvious why we delisted Lower rather than Faulks and JA at that point, given the threadbare nature of those areas of our list, whether you rate those individuals or not.

Also.. although they go about in differing ways, S.Hill doesnt often get mentioned as an important inside/clearance mid.. and i think thats actually where he plays some quality football

 

[apuchar]

This isnt a slight on Nick Lower who i like and is a handy foot soldier, but if he stayed and had a major impact on our 2013 i dare say we havent made Top 4 and hence are not competing with the big boys anyway.. I would be surprised if he finished in the WB top 10 B & F who are ordinary

And its also pretty obvious why we delisted Lower rather than Faulks and JA at that point, given the threadbare nature of those areas of our list, whether you rate those individuals or not.

Also.. although they go about in differing ways, S.Hill doesnt often get mentioned as an important inside/clearance mid.. and i think thats actually where he plays some quality football

Yep. Hill seems to be able to break his tag better when he plays inside mid. I like him as a clearance player.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Anybody that starts by stating his limitations undervalues his strengths. Anybody who compares him with players that do not play in the same position. He is an inside clearance player, that was always the expectation, he does it very well.

If you are talking about Hill or Pav do you hone in on their high skill areas or focus on their limitations. People make excuses for other players because of the things they do well. This is no different.

I haven't read anyone actually running him down. In actual fact you are only as good as your weaknesses and he has a few.
Hill has copped his fair share of criticism in the past as well and I've also said pavlich as a midfielder turns the ball over as well as any player getting around and he is/was a better midfielder than Nick.
You also state Nick is an inside clearance player and he does it very well.
I think his work was acceptable , not great but not awful.
It is all academic anyway; what's the importance of the talent difference between your 35th rated player and your 40 th.
If you are playing either of those ranked players, you aren't going to be winning matches. and just to make my point neither will Bulldogs next year.

NICK LOWER ENCAPSULATES THE DOCKERS OF OLD. ...it brought us no success . That isn't saying he's shit but more, that there is stacks of better players playing the game.

 

[pavsbootlace]

...

And its also pretty obvious why we delisted Lower rather than Faulks and JA at that point, given the threadbare nature of those areas of our list, whether you rate those individuals or not.
...

That doesn't make any sense. We cut Jack Anthony a week after we delisted Lower.

 

[paul8241]

I haven't read anyone actually running him down. In actual fact you are only as good as your weaknesses and he has a few.
Hill has copped his fair share of criticism in the past as well and I've also said pavlich as a midfielder turns the ball over as well as any player getting around and he is/was a better midfielder than Nick.
You also state Nick is an inside clearance player and he does it very well.
I think his work was acceptable , not great but not awful.
It is all academic anyway; what's the importance of the talent difference between your 35th rated player and your 40 th.
If you are playing either of those ranked players, you aren't going to be winning matches. and just to make my point neither will Bulldogs next year.

NICK LOWER ENCAPSULATES THE DOCKERS OF OLD. ...it brought us no success . That isn't saying he's shit but more, that there is stacks of better players playing the game.

You make the statement, "you're only as good as your weaknesses". By that measure, does a premiership team have no weaknesses? No. A champion team plays to their strengths. You play people in positions that suit their strengths. A team doesn't have the luxury of drafting perfect players in the bottom of the draft. You hope that the young ones will iron out the kinks in their game, but in the meantime you need a measurable and consistent output from your players. There are worse players than Lower in most premiership teams.

At the end of the day he was only doing the job the Rhyce Palmer would have been doing if they had played him in the right position, but for less money as a cheaper pick.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

You make the statement, "you're only as good as your weaknesses". By that measure, does a premiership team have no weaknesses? No. A champion team plays to their strengths. You play people in positions that suit their strengths. A team doesn't have the luxury of drafting perfect players in the bottom of the draft. You hope that the young ones will iron out the kinks in their game, but in the meantime you need a measurable and consistent output from your players. There are worse players than Lower in most premiership teams.

At the end of the day he was only doing the job the Rhyce Palmer would have been doing if they had played him in the right position, but for less money as a cheaper pick.

a./ It is metaphorically speaking just like " a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link"
b./ does a premiership team have no weaknesses ? No , presumably less than the team they beat though.
c./ A champion team plays to their strengths . Isn't that a game plan ?
d./ You play people in positions that suit their strengths. Unless there's somebody better and compliments the gameplan.
e./ There are worse players than Lower in most premiership teams. Which Sydney premiership player is Nick Better than.

 

[paul8241]

a./ It is metaphorically speaking just like " a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link"
b./ does a premiership team have no weaknesses ? No , presumably less than the team they beat though.
c./ A champion team plays to their strengths . Isn't that a game plan ?
d./ You play people in positions that suit their strengths. Unless there's someboby better and compliments the gameplan.
e./ There are worse players than Lower in most premiership teams. Which Sydney premiership player is Nick Better than.

Fairly subjective but I don't think Jude Bolton offers anything different at his age than Lower. Now I rate Jude, his best years are behind him and he's lost some pace along the way, but you pick him up off the bottom of every pack. He has a dispoal efficiency of less than 70% by hand and foot.

 

[paul8241]

​

To answer a-d
a) sure, but a football team won't have a full list of A grade players. They range from A+ down to C thereabouts. By that statement we should forget about the A+ players, sell them off and balance a list of B+ players. A higher level for the lowest link.
B) perhaps this could be the better gameplan. You have to isolate and expose a weakness for it to become one. A bit like sharking the ball off 211's hands better than our midfielders do... All the time.
C) yes, some thing. Playing A player in wrong positions is tanking by Melbournes standards.
D) correct, although you do have to consider balance and matchups. We did have a one paced midfield last year, that was because barlow, Pearce and mundy were not that quick. Barlow has picked his pace up, mundy is there for his skills. Fish pub gives them penetration and hardness. Each of those players have glaring weaknesses too if you want to balance the argument, which of those guys would slot into the Sydney premiership team, and for who?

 

[Blackswan]

Fairly subjective but I don't think Jude Bolton offers anything different at his age than Lower. Now I rate Jude, his best years are behind him and he's lost some pace along the way, but you pick him up off the bottom of every pack. He has a dispoal efficiency of less than 70% by hand and foot.

Jude Bolton, is a mile in front of Lower, now and at age 25.

 

[paul8241]

Jude Bolton, is a mile in front of Lower, now and at age 25.

well, that's because you only see Lower as a plodder. I see him as a better player than you do. Now that's tha subjective part. Jude is not the player he was 5 years ago, but he's still desperate and hungry, like Nick is. Disposal efficiency and pace would not be much different. Tackling and possessions, probably similar. I'll leave it to the master stats guys to hunt down the numbers if they like.

 

[Nickos66]

He'd be a gem of a chess piece in a moneyball side.

 

[Freo_4eva]

That doesn't make any sense. We cut Jack Anthony a week after we delisted Lower.

I still think we would have delisted Lower if the timing roles were reversed with JA, i think that was more to do with circumstance and negotiation between the two players as to when they both happened. The fact remains that the club thinks Lower is easily replaceable and will be surpassed very shortly by other players coming through. He was either going to leave at the end of 2013 or now through lack of opportunity IMO.. and those bemoaning the lack of trade, well people were complaining about pick 37 for Broughton.. no way in hell we would have received anything under pick 50 for Lower which was useless anyway.

All in all, in an ideal world im sure keeping Lower would have been ok and the club would have wanted that to happen anyway if nothing better came along.. but Nick saw the writing on the wall and being 25, this is his last chance to find longer term stability in football which you cant begrudge him.

 

[pavsbootlace]

I still think we would have delisted Lower if the timing roles were reversed with JA...

Why would we have delisted him? If we had've dumped JA a few weeks earlier there would have been no need to free up a spot. We clearly thought he was worth having for 2013 as we decided to offer him a guaranteed spot on the list as soon as the Bulldogs showed their interest.

The way I see it, Freo mucked around with JA for too long and it cost us Lower. It's not the end of the world but he would have been a handy bloke to have on the list in 2013.

 

[Freo_4eva]

I my view.. freo obviously didnt rate Lower enough to get JA sorted out ALL OF A WEEK earlier.. if we wanted Nick to hang around that much, you dont think they would have made more of an effort to get JA off the list asap? I think both players were surplus to needs (or wants) in the eyes of the coaching staff. Again ill say, i think Lower was nice to have on the list.. but nothing that cant be easily replaced. I think its a risk/reward thing once again.. they are backing the younger mids to contribute as much as Lower would in 2013, and more than he would after 2013

 

[apuchar]

Little untidy by Freo

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/af...western-bulldogs/story-e6frg1xu-1226530832343

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Not well played by the club, and i dont blame lower for being disillusioned.

"It's been a bit of a whirlwind, to be honest," Lower said. "I got the news about my delisting a couple of weeks before it was made public, and it was a little bit of a shock.
"Fremantle asked me to train on, but Jason McCartney said, 'If you want to take a punt, we would like you to train at the Dogs'.
"Once I notified Fremantle I wouldn't be training on with them, they ended up guaranteeing me a spot on the senior list.

 

[apuchar]

Not well played by the club, and i dont blame lower for being disillusioned.

"It's been a bit of a whirlwind, to be honest," Lower said. "I got the news about my delisting a couple of weeks before it was made public, and it was a little bit of a shock.
"Fremantle asked me to train on, but Jason McCartney said, 'If you want to take a punt, we would like you to train at the Dogs'.
"Once I notified Fremantle I wouldn't be training on with them, they ended up guaranteeing me a spot on the senior list.

I wonder if that was before or after McPhee pulled the pin?

I guess this stuff is only going to get worse as the list continues to improve.

 

[Palmervich]

I wonder if that was before or after McPhee pulled the pin?

I guess this stuff is only going to get worse as the list continues to improve.

Exactly, if everyone is getting this upset this year, we are going to have people shooting themselves next year, when we have to find another three to delist. Recon we will be trading pretty heavily over the next couple of years....

 

[apuchar]

Exactly, if everyone is getting this upset this year, we are going to have people shooting themselves next year, when we have to find another three to delist. Recon we will be trading pretty heavily over the next couple of years....

Yeah. Rosich said in an interview that we would be looking at trading next year, that is possibly why. I often wonder if that is the reason Sutcliffe rarely gets a mention by the coaching staff. Or it might just be an oversight of course.

 

[DOCKERZ]

Nick has just been delisted by the Bulldogs.

 

[Nickos66]

Nick has just been delisted by the Bulldogs.

 

[TheLastCall]

Nick has just been delisted by the Bulldogs.

Very sad for Nick.
I'd welcome him back for depth, but I'd suggest he could contribute to GWS to give them a big body mid to protect some of their young guns.