Coach Luke Beveridge and his on-field coaching.

[Munnez]

I'm not sure how the opinions on bf are that he can go from coaching the best he's ever coached earlier in the season to now being terrible.

Bevo is a good coach but there is some pronounced deficiencies that he has to try and work around.8 need a 1v1 Capable KPD and a Lockdown Small Defender. The ckub recognises this and have brought in Sellwood and Walker.

We have some great mids but not a whole lot of pace, so when we lose possession things can get really ugly really fast. That's why tackle intensity is crucial for us as we don't have sufficient legspeed to recover the situation.

We try to keep it in tight and go to work. However if the opposition gets first hands on it and can break to the outside we are in trouble. We need more speed on the inside we have the grunt side covered.

I know it's a long shot but would be chasing Butters hard and trying to trade in a KPD who doesn't need to be a star just serviceable. Then we might be able to structure up a bit differently and tweak the game style a bit.

Also a zippy small forward wouldn't hurt Arty was showing a bit before blowing his hammy. Would look to draft another at the end of the year.

 

[Munnez]

But they have triple Majak Daw Medallist Eric Hipwood

Actually think Buss is a good match up for Hipwood. Hipwood isn't a physical monster and isn't particularly quick. Buss is sufficiently tall enough and not too far off in athletic ability. I would bring him in to release Lobb to Intercept.
Worth a shot and could pay off change something in our defence maybe for the better

 

[Foxman98]

Why would Jones/Khamis/Buss have fared better than Lobb and O’Donnell?

Jones like Duryea is at the tail end of his career and his body is unable to do what is required for him, I feel people always forget how bad defensively Buku is and brainwash themselves to think he is some kind of elite interceptor when the reality is he is a great 3rd forward nothing more, Buss the more I watch him this year the worse it gets, I was hoping he would be much better 1 on 1 and positional now he has had a couple of years in the system however he is just a tall slow flanker prone to skill/decision errors.

 

[Arkangel]

In previous years we've been capable of beating the best sides, yet have inexplicably lost to teams at the bottom end of the ladder every now and then. This year we seem to have reversed course on both fronts: we're incapable of beating the top teams, but dominate the cellar dwellers. I don't know if that change is a good one or a bad one…

 

[grassman75]

Actually think Buss is a good match up for Hipwood. Hipwood isn't a physical monster and isn't particularly quick. Buss is sufficiently tall enough and not too far off in athletic ability. I would bring him in to release Lobb to Intercept.
Worth a shot and could pay off change something in our defence maybe for the better

The biggest issue is no VFL last weekend…gives no consistency

 

[Mhiggo]

Jones like Duryea is at the tail end of his career and his body is unable to do what is required for him, I feel people always forget how bad defensively Buku is and brainwash themselves to think he is some kind of elite interceptor when the reality is he is a great 3rd forward nothing more, Buss the more I watch him this year the worse it gets, I was hoping he would be much better 1 on 1 and positional now he has had a couple of years in the system however he is just a tall slow flanker prone to skill/decision errors.

Agree. Rather than a product of an inept coaching group too stubborn to change I think the aggressive game style is an adaptation to compensate for the drop off of Jones and Duryea leaving us with thin defensive stocks.

I don't think there is some silver bullet where we make our game style more defensive and we magically start beating good sides. The actual results could easily be we no longer have an elite offence and are still stuck with a poor defense leading to worse losses to good teams and no longer flogging poor teams.

 

[Foxman98]

Agree. Rather than a product of an inept coaching group too stubborn to change I think the aggressive game style is an adaptation to compensate for the drop off of Jones and Duryea leaving us with thin defensive stocks.

I don't think there is some silver bullet where we make our game style more defensive and we magically start beating good sides. The actual results could easily be we no longer have an elite offence and are still stuck with a poor defense leading to worse losses to good teams and no longer flogging poor teams.

The turnovers and high defensive lines are what is killing us,

It's why we cream all the shite teams they don't have the skill to capitalise where as the good teams do.

Our structures with our current cattle are far to aggressive and needed changing at the bye but doesn't appear to have happened,

The other issue then is does it hurt our ability to score especially when English is off and Naughton is our only target long forcing us to take on stupid kicks which we always seem to turn over and over possesses the footy

 

[adogsfan5]

In previous years we've been capable of beating the best sides, yet have inexplicably lost to teams at the bottom end of the ladder every now and then. This year we seem to have reversed course on both fronts: we're incapable of beating the top teams, but dominate the cellar dwellers. I don't know if that change is a good one or a bad one…

Maybe it just finally highlights where we actually stand in the pecking order..? Still think we’re only 1-2 small pieces away from beating the best. Just don’t think it’ll be this year.

 

[_Mike_]

In other news, Montagna thinks the dogs arent ready in this season but will be primed for a shot in 2026

‘Rung below the real contenders’: Why Dogs are ‘not ready’ to win the flag... but primed for 2026

‘Not ready’: AFL dark horse’s harsh home truth as glaring flaw exposed again

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Foxman98]

In other news, Montagna thinks the dogs arent ready in this season but will be primed for a shot in 2026

‘Rung below the real contenders’: Why Dogs are ‘not ready’ to win the flag... but primed for 2026

‘Not ready’: AFL dark horse’s harsh home truth as glaring flaw exposed again

www.foxsports.com.au

Freijah/Hynes/Sanders/Darcy/JOD/Dolan/Davidson all under 50 games
West/VDM both under 100 games

There is 9 players who have been fairly consistently picked most weeks who are just getting their teeth into their footballing career who have either already "broken out" or showing signs they will but all in all just need more games to find consistency.

We have a great crop coming through that have had to play bigger roles then they are currently ready for hence we drop games against the better teams but we will be better for it in the long run as they will all have learnt a whole lot from this season

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Jones like Duryea is at the tail end of his career and his body is unable to do what is required for him, I feel people always forget how bad defensively Buku is and brainwash themselves to think he is some kind of elite interceptor when the reality is he is a great 3rd forward nothing more, Buss the more I watch him this year the worse it gets, I was hoping he would be much better 1 on 1 and positional now he has had a couple of years in the system however he is just a tall slow flanker prone to skill/decision errors.

There’s not many defenders in the comp that would’ve done much with how the ball was coming in to their fwd 50. And the lack of extra numbers we were able to get back. How many times did Crow forwards get a shot on target with zero pressure? Walker kicked one around his body from the pocket after taking 8-10 steps with no one within the tv screen shot. I think it was Fogarty who kicked that one walking past several of our players top of the 50 in the 2nd quarter. Zero pressure applied.

O’Donnell and Lobb have been our best tall backs this year by a fare margin. Supporters are barking up the wrong tree if they think not selecting another tall was the reason for our poor game.

 

[go the dogs]

We play our numbers too high up the ground and we continue to be exposed after a turnover. It also clogs up our forward half. It’s a very strange tactic given we have enough talent in the fwd line as it is, we don’t have the best skills and we aren’t overly quick.

How can we not adjust this on the fly given it’s not working?

this is it 100% and has been the same for years.

Stood out in the elmination final loss to St Kilda and hasn't changed since. We defend the ground to high and get exposed out the back on turnover more than any other team.

When we turn it over in our defensive half opposition look like scoring at will everytime.

When we create a turnover in our forward half very rarely do we get uncontested marks inside 50.

 

[Foxman98]

There’s not many defenders in the comp that would’ve done much with how the ball was coming in to their fwd 50. And the lack of extra numbers we were able to get back. How many times did Crow forwards get a shot on target with zero pressure? Walker kicked one around his body from the pocket after taking 8-10 steps with no one within the tv screen shot. I think it was Fogarty who kicked that one walking past several of our players top of the 50 in the 2nd quarter. Zero pressure applied.

O’Donnell and Lobb have been our best tall backs this year by a fare margin. Supporters are barking up the wrong tree if they think not selecting another tall was the reason for our poor game.

Yep the want for the extra tall made no sense when the majority of their goals came from handball chains to a free out the back,

We are playing a bit to much Russian roulette currently where the week prior against a poor North we scored 93 points off of T/O where as this week it was well down and just got us cut to pieces

 

[_Mike_]

here is 9 players who have been fairly consistently picked most weeks who are just getting their teeth into their footballing career who have either already "broken out" or showing signs they will but all in all just need more games to find consistency.

That's why I think we're not that far off. A bit of tweaking and restructuring of the backline is the key IMO

 

[Munnez]

The biggest issue is no VFL last weekend…gives no consistency

It's a gamble but doing nothing is also rolling the dice

 

[glenashley]

We play our numbers too high up the ground and we continue to be exposed after a turnover. It also clogs up our forward half. It’s a very strange tactic given we have enough talent in the fwd line as it is, we don’t have the best skills and we aren’t overly quick.

How can we not adjust this on the fly given it’s not working?

We play a predictable game style that allows opposition teams to prepare and those who have the ability tear us apart. Those who don't have the speed or skill turn it back over to us before it gets out the back.

Now I understand that most teams have a predictable style but I'm not sure of how many play the 'negative Pagan's paddock'?

 

[olimauldon]

"Primed for next year", "Next year will be our year"

I've been hearing that every year since 2015 I reckon

 

[glenashley]

I think there are some issues with coaching and approach but they’ve been there for a while and are obviously not going to change that much. These might be simplistic but it feels like they’ve been a problem for years.

• Betting the house on midfield dominance and a forward half defensive game and not having enough concern for what happens when we miss or turn the ball over.
• Refusal to tag/run with certain players who are on fire or tear us a new one every time we play them (Newcombe being the most aggravating example of this for at least 4-5 games now).
• Linked to the above, that we seem to blindly back our gameplan to beat the other team, rather than adjust to what the other team might bring.
• Acceptance of poor tackling technique and/or defensive and pressure efforts all over the ground.
• Poor forward coaching of KPFs and their positioning (despite our high scoring this year it’s still a regular problem - crows showed how this should be done on Saturday)

But the main issue for me is team selection. It’s always been his Achilles heel. This weekend was an example - sometimes the best approach might be to look at the opposition and pick a team to beat that particular challenge. I don’t care if he brings Jones in, Buss in or whoever - but Coffieid is not a third tall and it exposes Lobb and JOD and denies them the chance to play at their best.

I think he’s a great coach but I was still a detractor for the past few years as I don’t think he can get out of his own way. And it’s not just him, the whole footy department obviously needs to take some responsibility, but he’s the main voice in there. The hope is that we actually had a decent defensive run in late 2024, that has waned but have found a strong offensive identity this year, and maybe a balance can be struck for next year. But if I had to bet my life on it I’d guess we’ll find a way to be in a similar position in the bottom half of the contenders next year and it’ll be the same until Bevo leaves.

I thought that the north game could have been better used to prepare for the crows (from a selection point of view).

No idea what Duryea was doing in the team?

Why not try Buss (or any kpd) with a view to playing him against the crows knowing they have 3 kpfs?

I get it that the coaches know more internally etc etc about who's who, but the results don't agree.

 

[Mhiggo]

The other issue then is does it hurt our ability to score especially when English is off and Naughton is our only target long forcing us to take on stupid kicks which we always seem to turn over and over possesses the footy

Which is exactly my point, the risk is that we compromise our attack and still have a shit defence. I don't think there is an easy solution or minor tweaks that fix a fundamental weakness of the list.

 

[Mhiggo]

"Primed for next year", "Next year will be our year"

I've been hearing that every year since 2015 I reckon

In fairness it was correct in 2015 and almost again in 2020, pattern suggests it's due to be correct again this year!

 

[Foxman98]

"Primed for next year", "Next year will be our year"

I've been hearing that every year since 2015 I reckon

We have made as many AFL?VFL GF in the last 10 years as we had in the previous 90 reckon things aren't as bad as made out

 

[dogwatch]

Our issues are our backline and our defensive structures.

We play a very high aggressive press which can be opened up quite easily, especially if our pressure dips. We also lack players in defence who are good 1v1 or defensively minded, as in defend first.

Look back at 16 the following were good 1v1 and/or defensively minded:
Morris
Boyd
Wood
Hamling
Roberts

Not saying they were all elite defenders or great afl players but they had defensive abilities.

We now play a quite aggressive backline. All of Dale, JJ and Bramble are not defensively minded. We also don’t have a lock down key defender. With jones falling off the cliff. Who was beat my opponent first then impact player.

We don’t sustain pressure on transition, last few years have been because we have played a tall forward line this year I think it’s due to age profile not being able to sustain it.

Clearly we lack the personnel back there and that’s why we have such terrible numbers when it comes to scores per inside 50 conceded. Against the weaker teams they don’t get the ball in there as much and they don’t transition as well allowing us to flood back. But against good sides they transition quicker than we can flood back and they match us in terms of inside 50s.

We need an adjustment in our game plan which is on the coaches. Our press needs to be less aggressive and we need to hold an anchor to stop the out the back goals.

Then recruiting wise we need to invest in our backline and players who defend first and can compete 1v1.

I’ve been saying this for a while. We need two types of defensive press. High press when we are monstering weak teams, and a softer version when we are playing teams that can match or beat our midfield, and can transition to an open forward line swiftly. Possibly in conjunction with a defensive sweeper.

So far I haven’t seen any sign of such nuance. One size fits all.

 

[Munnez]

We have made as many AFL?VFL GF in the last 10 years as we had in the previous 90 reckon things aren't as bad as made out

And it's a big reason we don't crash too the bottom of the ladder as we are consistently bringing through youth. Trouble is we never reach the critical mass of experienced talent together at the one time to challenge the top rung of teams

 

[Foxman98]

And it's a big reason we don't crash too the bottom of the ladder as we are consistently bringing through youth. Trouble is we never reach the critical mass of experienced talent together at the one time to challenge the top rung of teams

Actually more confident in our current path then 2021 Bont will play like Pendles unless he suffers serious injury then you have Naughty Ed Freijah Sanders Flea Dolan Hynes Davo ect all hitting their primes together

 

[MrChristo]

Which is exactly my point, the risk is that we compromise our attack and still have a shit defence. I don't think there is an easy solution or minor tweaks that fix a fundamental weakness of the list.

Exactly. It's a big machine with lots of moving parts.
I strongly suspect that we play the higher press because we want to cause stoppages. We score from them more than anyone else and we're able to control and limit the damage most times it goes the other way.

The further we zone back, the easier it is for opposition teams to hit up marks in space.
We play towards one end of the scale where we try to squeeze the field and prevent hit up marks in our forward 2/3s (doing so, of course, we leave space out the back and rely on athletic defenders to cover the ground)...
... the other end of the scale is the old flood. We could line up with a ruckman, 3 onballers and 14 players in the back 70m at stoppages. (Not centre bounces of course)... (*)
...but, smart@rsed hat on for one second, that would absolutely be wasting Bont's career.

I still lean to the opinion (*) that our main concern gamestyle-wise (not personnel, that's a different discussion) is our forward line.

(*) I'll start looking through some numbers tomorrow, but one specifically I'd like to find is Scores from Centre bounces. To me that's going to be the most accurate indication of how our forward set-up compares with other teams.

(The funny thing about a lot of these stats is that they can circular arguments. Do we score well from stoppages because we're good at them and want more, or through sheer weight of numbers?
Is our forward system poor because of congestion, or are we not entirely confident that we can enter our 50 cleanly enough and so want the extra numbers when the ball hits the ground?)