Luke Breust vs Jeff Garlett

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Upside based on the amount of times he was sub and time played, the potential of size, speed and strength.
I wouldn't think Garlett will get much faster as he doesn't need to and he is the size of a pencil and always will be.

Forgive me for not pissing in Garletts pocket for coming off the rookie list.

Hey you brought up the rookie list as though it somehow enhanced Breust's merits. I'm just calling it a nil all draw on that count.

Are we not comparing small forwards? Putting on size is a questionable attribute in that case. Maybe one can be Brett Ebert and one can be Stephen Milne or Phil Matera.

Does talent get a run here or is Garlett the inferior footballer long time because he has a thinner frame? I know it has hampered Kade Simpson .... and I don't know, inferior footballers like Michael Tuck.

I'm not declaring a winner with younger players, but this 'more upside' line is one of the most overused statements on this forum.

 

[magpieswmb]

garlett is a better defensive player who chases down players and creates pressure, breust not so much

 

[pacman]

Hey you brought up the rookie list as though it somehow enhanced Breust's merits. I'm just calling it a nil all draw on that count.

Are we not comparing small forwards? Putting on size is a questionable attribute in that case. Maybe one can be Brett Ebert and one can be Stephen Milne or Phil Matera.

Does talent get a run here or is Garlett the inferior footballer long time because he has a thinner frame? I know it has hampered Kade Simpson .... and I don't know, inferior footballers like Michael Tuck.

I'm not declaring a winner with younger players, but this 'more upside' line is one of the most overused statements on this forum.

Whatever mate it's my opinion and I already stated I thought Garlett was better.
Bruest's best attribute is finding the perfect position and overhead marking so gaining strength and speed will enhance him as a player.
He and Savage are the 2 at the Hawks that I think can take the next step and play very important roles and drag us into a Grand Final and possibly win us a flag.

 

[Monkey King]

Breust actually outperformed Garlett in 2011 in terms of goal contributions (goals and goal assists).

Your figures and source please?

Goal Contribution - 2011
Garlett - 61
Breust - 44

Source.



Goal contribution as a singularly considered stat is really quite a poor one IMO. A goal is worth more than a goal assist. Lumping them together and pretending they all equate to one measure doesn't give much of a true reflection.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Your figures and source please?

Goal Contribution - 2011
Garlett - 61
Breust - 44

Source.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=4&pid1=3189&tid2=11&pid2=3219&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

Same link, but you're talking totals. The averages are 2.5 to Garlett and 2.6 to Breust. Pretty obvious Breust performs better in this area, with only 48% TOG to Garlett's 85% yet STILL leading.

 

[j-ham]

It's a shame Breust has to come on after everyone else has fatigued from playing three quarters of football to be effective.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

garlett is a better defensive player who chases down players and creates pressure, breust not so much

Yes, different types of players really. A lot of Garlett's efforts would go uncredited as he is a presence without the ball so often. He is ahead in 1%ers, even allowing for game time, ahead in tackles although this is closer if you go the game time route. People do need to remember that lack of game time could point to a lack of a motor but if not, still allows for better recovery whilst on the bench. At any rate Garlett is prone to greater fatigue than Breust so the theory that Breust's performance could fall away dramatically if he remained on field is more than possible. With Garlett's running game, getting more of a rest could see him more explosive with similar numbers.

Garlett had a handful of rebound 50s to his credit in 2011 whilst Breust did not. Garlett had 21 running bounces to Breust's 5. It seems apparent that Garlett is covering more ground, and plays the game differently to Breust.

 

[Alexwce]

Based on form you would say Luke Breust however on default it would be Garlett. Already mentioned is that they are different players and it's hard to compare their output against each other.

That being said, I would gladly take either at West Coast

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Oh I figured out the problem. I was recently looking at Waite vs Cloke and it said that Waite had only 40% game time, which confused me as he was only out early for 2 of his 12 games. Worked it out and it turned out the game time percentages were askew.

Breust had the following game time percentages:

85, 25, 62, 38, 51, 91, 86, 87, 90, 84, 88, 77, 25, 62, 87, 84, 84. On only 3 occasions did he get less than 48% game time and on several occasions his game time was massively more than that. Maths not adding up right?

His game time is actually closer to 71%.

Guess what his game time is if you factor in Hawthorn played 25 games? You got it .... 48%

His game time is actually based on a percentage of Hawthorn's entire game time for the season, not just the games he was participating in.

Now, let's not play the time on ground card anymore thanks.

 

[Hodgepodge]

His game time is actually based on a percentage of Hawthorn's entire game time for the season, not just the games he was participating in.

Yes, that's the stat. It's why someone like Aaron Black has 2% gametime this year.

Now, let's not play the time on ground card anymore thanks.

Why not? It's relevant to both averages and totals.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Because if game time is based on games played, then Breust's goal average is unlikely to increase much more than the 1.8 per game. Even if he theoretically got another 13 goals in 7 games to match Garlett's games played, he would be on 43.

Then the argument would be Garlett 48 goals with 85% game time and Breust 43 goals with 71% game time. Some are using less games and less game time as though they are separate points.

Try these stats.

vs Top 8 sides

Garlett 25 goals in 13 games
Breust 8 goals in 7 games

Garlett 50 marks in 13 games
Breust 18 marks in 7 games

Garlett's average disposals vs top 8 sides is the same as against bottom 8 sides, whilst Breust has a slight drop.

Not bagging the guy but considering Garlett is accused along with Betts and Walker as going missing against the top teams, it is clear that he does better work against the top teams than Breust has to date.

 

[mickelboy182]

Oh I figured out the problem. I was recently looking at Waite vs Cloke and it said that Waite had only 40% game time, which confused me as he was only out early for 2 of his 12 games. Worked it out and it turned out the game time percentages were askew.

Breust had the following game time percentages:

85, 25, 62, 38, 51, 91, 86, 87, 90, 84, 88, 77, 25, 62, 87, 84, 84. On only 3 occasions did he get less than 48% game time and on several occasions his game time was massively more than that. Maths not adding up right?

His game time is actually closer to 71%.

Guess what his game time is if you factor in Hawthorn played 25 games? You got it .... 48%

His game time is actually based on a percentage of Hawthorn's entire game time for the season, not just the games he was participating in.

Now, let's not play the time on ground card anymore thanks.

Oh Podgey, your stat-twisting is pure hilarity at times.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Because if game time is based on games played, then Breust's goal average is unlikely to increase much more than the 1.8 per game.

It would probably increase to at least 2. And you'd expect more possessions too.

vs Top 8 sides

Garlett 25 goals in 13 games
Breust 8 goals in 7 games

Not sure where you got 8 from, it's actually 9 from 7. Have to also take into account the game against Gold Coast where Hawthorn played with a much weaker side and Breust was the matchwinner. It is in any case completely irrelevant when Breust played 25% of gametime against a Top 8 side like Sydney, 38% against Top 8 Fremantle, 51% against Geelong, 62% against Carlton, and so on.

Garlett's average disposals vs top 8 sides is the same as against bottom 8 sides, whilst Breust has a slight drop.

Again irrelevant when he has been the sub so often against Top 8 sides.

Not bagging the guy but considering Garlett is accused along with Betts and Walker as going missing against the top teams, it is clear that he does better work against the top teams than Breust has to date.

No proof of this at all when Breust has often played just a quarter of football against Top 8 sides this year.

 

[BlueDW]

I would pick Garlett going forward if I had a choice for one of them to be at Hawthorn, but since the poll was about recent performances ( that's the way I took it ), I picked Luke Breust.

I genuinely laughed at this...Garlett has been better as a small forward than Breust, and you say you would pick Garlett as a future prospect, yet you choose Breust!

Some of your best work Donk!

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I genuinely laughed at this...Garlett has been better as a small forward than Breust, and you say you would pick Garlett as a future prospect, yet you choose Breust!

Some of your best work Donk!

Despite the stats thrown up in this thread, Breust has been just as good and had just as much impact on games as Garlett this year. However, I think Garlett is going to be the better player moving forward.

 

[BlueDW]

I reckon they are different types, Breust is clearly bigger bodied, Garlett is super quick, and by extension is more likely to provide more defensive pressure.

Breust has been able to come off the sub bench to provide an immediate scoring threat, but one could say that is due to defensive tiredness, Garlett has been known to go missing during games, but if you look at the end of the season, 50+ goals by any forward, especially one that is 5"10" and 75 kg dripping wet, is a significant contribution.

Too different to make a definitive comparison I reckon, but I certainly wouldn't be swapping Garlett for Breust at this stage.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I value the contested ball and second efforts, and as such would pick breust given the option of the two

that isn't to say he is or isnt a better player, and I think garlett is superior in the disposal area, it is who I would pick to make my side more competitive if it was staring from scratch

of given the option, I think gws and gc would pick breust in order to get the most out of thier side


I see garlett more like mark williams, great going forward, but questions over defence, the player sides heading for a flag would pick to give them an unpredictable option forward of center

 

[Mitchell Madness]

It's a shame Breust has to come on after everyone else has fatigued from playing three quarters of football to be effective.

so why can't any other player have the same impact?

note that breust has played a few full games and was influential on all of them

 

[BlueDW]

I value the contested ball and second efforts, and as such would pick breust given the option of the two

that isn't to say he is or isnt a better player, and I think garlett is superior in the disposal area, it is who I would pick to make my side more competitive if it was staring from scratch

of given the option, I think gws and gc would pick breust in order to get the most out of thier side


I see garlett more like mark williams, great going forward, but questions over defence, the player sides heading for a flag would pick to give them an unpredictable option forward of center

Williams was a leading forward, playing primarily as a second or third target, Garlett is a prototypical crumbing forward with blinding speed...they are nothing alike. BTW, his defence, particularly his chasing and harassing inside our forward 50 is outstanding, perhaps you are mistaking him for Gunston??? Do Your homework prior to making comparisons!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It would probably increase to at least 2. And you'd expect more possessions too.

Playing more games wouldn't necessarily increase the average. There is no basis for that theory. A game average is a game average. Playing more time in the games he did play could change the average slightly however. It also might fatigue him and make it hard for him to fire in bursts.

Not sure where you got 8 from, it's actually 9 from 7.

Got it from a little known site called www.afl.com.au .

R8 v St K - 2 - 85% GT
R9 v Syd - 1 - 25% GT
R10 v WB - 0 - 62% GT
R11 v Frem - 3 - 38% GT
R12 v Geel - 1 - 51% GT
R13 v GC - 4 - 91% GT
R14 v Ess - 0 - 86% GT
R15 v Coll - 2 - 87% GT
R16 v BL - 0 - 90% GT
R18 v Melb - 3 - 84% GT
R19 v Frem - 1 88% GT
R20 v NM - 2 - 77% GT
R21 v Port - 2 - 25% GT
R22 v Carl - 2 - 62% GT
R23 v WB - 2 - 87% GT
R24 v GC - 5 - 84% GT
QF v Geel - 0 - 84% GT

It is in any case completely irrelevant when Breust played 25% of gametime against a Top 8 side like Sydney, 38% against Top 8 Fremantle, 51% against Geelong, 62% against Carlton, and so on.

Just dudded yourself there HP. Freo were not a top 8 side, there's your missing goal, and there is a free kick for the opposing argument i.e 38% v Freo, 25% v Port, 62% v WB. I'd add 'and so on' to make it look like the list continues but we both know that neither of our lists actually continue.

Again irrelevant when he has been the sub so often against Top 8 sides.

No proof of this at all when Breust has often played just a quarter of football against Top 8 sides this year.

By often you mean 'once' right ... vs Sydney.

Breust actually played 68% game time vs top 8 sides on average and 72% game time vs bottom 8 sides. Not much of a discrepancy considering the differences in performance.

It's no slight on Breust though. Top 8 teams are supposed to be harder to score on and you expect a relative drop off and usually figures bear that out. Garlett has been remarkable consistent in that regard though, which is surprising he gets caught up in the 'goes missing against top sides' school of thought.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I value the contested ball and second efforts, and as such would pick breust given the option of the two

Hmmm, Garlett averages slightly more in contested possessions and comfortably more in 1%ers. Have you watched him?

that isn't to say he is or isnt a better player, and I think garlett is superior in the disposal area

And Breust has better disposal efficiency, mainly I think because Garlett tried to be way too fancy at times. You're still 0 for 2 though.

I see garlett more like mark williams, great going forward, but questions over defence, the player sides heading for a flag would pick to give them an unpredictable option forward of center

Garlett's main attribute is his forward pressure. He had a comfortable advantage over Breust in tackling averages last year.

I figure you are 0 from 3 here and probably do not know much about Garlett.

 

[mediumsizered]

I see garlett more like mark williams, great going forward, but questions over defence, the player sides heading for a flag would pick to give them an unpredictable option forward of center

This comment demonstrates you know little or nothing about Garlett's game. His defensive pressure is one of his real strengths, in comparison to Williams, who was one of the laziest players to don an AFL guernsey in the last 20-30 years. A player who was found out as soon as he moved to a club without players of the calibre of Franklin & Roughead to take the pressure off him.

To be honest, I can't think of a current player who is like Mark Williams, because there is no room in the modern game for players who aren't prepared to work hard going the other way.

 

[Silvagnis]

This comment demonstrates you know little or nothing about Garlett's game. His defensive pressure is one of his real strengths

Second efforts are great as well. Against Collingwood, you just had to watch Garlett back up two poor kicks and keep hunting the ball after he turns over. Special talent who on that occasion and others, has somehow managed to get to his kick before the opposition or as they have just picked up the ball. Garlett uses his pace to chase hard. Smashed Brent Harvey after coming from nowhere.

Strange poll. Breust's game reminds me of Rohan Kerr who has yet to debut for Carlton. Bigger body, good awareness and skills, but not a Garlett type who is a speed machine.

 

[Swade]

lol at hawthorn supporters, and i thought richmond supporters were delusional, every point you've tried to make has been destroyed, garlett is one of the best small forwards in the league, open your eyes, this is just embarrassing.

 

[Old Skool]

Garlett by 100,000 light years.