List Mgmt. Luke Jackson - Yay or Nay?

[Piggy Smalls]

I’m not going to bother going back but I’m pretty sure I wanted to keep Lobb so yeah I’m pretty happy that I had no clue at the time and it’s all working out well.

 

[Dockeroo]

Personally was always bullish on Jackson and couldn’t actually believe it when it became apparent he wanted to come to us. A NAB rising star winner, 20 years old, proven elite young talent with no obvious baggage or red flags wanting to join freo? A one in 20 year occurrence that is.
From there on the deal was always getting done. As several people on here have said, you don’t let a talent like that slip though your fingers, no matter where you are at as a club. We literally spend years and years in the draft agonising over picks, hoping that we will land someone like Jackson for 10 years or so to play 200 games for our club. Normally them players are the exclusive preserve of the top 5 picks.
So obviously he was always coming in to replace journeymen like Tabs and Lobb once he indicated he was keen to join us.

Walking away from the LJ deal would have been one of the craziest decisions this club ever made and would have confirmed our status as an Irrelevant non-entity in the AFL landscape. Especially when we were giving up pick 15, a draft range where there is a maybe 1 in 50 chance of getting an equivalent talent to Jacko.
The price we paid in picks in total is a different matter. There was a lot of who blinks first going on as (a) we knew he was leaving no matter what and (b) Melbourne knew he was joining freo no matter what.
In the end a deal was done that looked a touch expensive from our POV but this years finishing position remains to be seen for us. If he plays 250 games for us and wins a few AA, it will look like one of the biggest trade bargains in our history.

For future reference - if another player of similar talent and age bracket wants to join this football club in future, the deal will get done.
Port were in a similar position with JHF last year. They were not stupid either and made sure the deal was done. We have very few avenues to elite talent at freo as the top end free agent market has been proven to be basically unavailable to us, so it was all the more imperative we take these chances when they come up in trade like this.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Personally was always bullish on Jackson and couldn’t actually believe it when it became apparent he wanted to come to us. A NAB rising star winner, 20 years old, proven elite young talent with no obvious baggage or red flags wanting to join freo? A one in 20 year occurrence that is.
From there on the deal was always getting done. As several people on here have said, you don’t let a talent like that slip though your fingers, no matter where you are at as a club. We literally spend years and years in the draft agonising over picks, hoping that we will land someone like Jackson for 10 years or so to play 200 games for our club. Normally them players are the exclusive preserve of the top 5 picks.
So obviously he was always coming in to replace journeymen like Tabs and Lobb once he indicated he was keen to join us.

Walking away from the LJ deal would have been one of the craziest decisions this club ever made and would have confirmed our status as an Irrelevant non-entity in the AFL landscape. Especially when we were giving up pick 15, a draft range where there is a maybe 1 in 50 chance of getting an equivalent talent to Jacko.
The price we paid in picks in total is a different matter. There was a lot of who blinks first going on as (a) we knew he was leaving no matter what and (b) Melbourne knew he was joining freo no matter what.
In the end a deal was done that looked a touch expensive from our POV but this years finishing position remains to be seen for us. If he plays 250 games for us and wins a few AA, it will look like one of the biggest trade bargains in our history.

For future reference - if another player of similar talent and age bracket wants to join this football club in future, the deal will get done.
Port were in a similar position with JHF last year. They were not stupid either and made sure the deal was done. We have very few avenues to elite talent at freo as the top end free agent market has been proven to be basically unavailable to us, so it was all the more imperative we take these chances when they come up in trade like this.

While I was taking potshots with bumping the thread, I think the start of the thread had really reasonable takes from those who didnt want him, surprisingly so. He did stagnate last year and I think it was totally justified on his performances last year and our trading history to be concerned (and I say this from someone who was pretty much always keen).

The fit was one thing specifically, I know myself and others touched on there was some scenario where he becomes some kind of midfielder or ground roaming CHF but I genuinely cant believe how fast he's come on in that regard. In future, I wont underestimate the possible impact of someone who might have checked out or just the natural ups and downs of footy careers.

 

[wakojako]

Still waiting for my statue tbh

 

[Dockeroo]

While I was taking potshots with bumping the thread, I think the start of the thread had really reasonable takes from those who didnt want him, surprisingly so. He did stagnate last year and I think it was totally justified on his performances last year and our trading history to be concerned (and I say this from someone who was pretty much always keen).

The fit was one thing specifically, I know myself and others touched on there was some scenario where he becomes some kind of midfielder or ground roaming CHF but I genuinely cant believe how fast he's come on in that regard. In future, I wont underestimate the possible impact of someone who might have checked out or just the natural ups and downs of footy careers.

Yeah I could understand that concern but I’m always of the view that elite talent supersedes positional fit.
For example I would always rather have Patrick Dangerfield or Scott Pendlebury on a half forward or half back flank than some specialist player in that position who is not as talented as those two guys.
An elite talent out of position is better than an average player in position.
The top class players just find a way to impact the game wherever they are and their superior football ability shines though.
Much of the hesitation was borne out of previous trade blunders by Freo but hopefully if this trade is shown to be a success we continue to do them. You can’t win the flag without trading well, as you have often pointed out on here.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yeah I could understand that concern but I’m always of the view that elite talent supersedes positional fit.
For example I would always rather have Patrick Dangerfield or Scott Pendlebury on a half forward or half back flank than some specialist player in that position who is not as talented as those two guys.
An elite talent out of position is better than an average player in position.
The top class players just find a way to impact the game wherever they are and their superior football ability shines though.
Much of the hesitation was borne out of previous trade blunders by Freo but hopefully if this trade is shown to be a success we continue to do them. You can’t win the flag without trading well, as you have often pointed out on here.

Something else worth considering is the often undervalued impact of player attitude and off field activities (mainly because it's harder for us casuals to have all the details there). Jacko is a dream in that regard - dude who puts in his all but is such a loveable airhead that he gives 0 shits about outside noise.

When we do big value trades in the future, at the very least, they have to want to come here AND they have to not be dickheads. Take a punt with less valuable picks on dickheads

 

[Dockeroo]

Something else worth considering is the often undervalued impact of player attitude and off field activities (mainly because it's harder for us casuals to have all the details there). Jacko is a dream in that regard - dude who puts in his all but is such a loveable airhead that he gives 0 shits about outside noise.

When we do big value trades in the future, at the very least, they have to want to come here AND they have to not be dickheads. Take a punt with less valuable picks on dickheads

Ya the mistake we made with Hogan was that the Dees got full price for what was damaged goods. We paid a price for him as if he had a Pendlebury or Fyfe mentality and professionalism level. He obviously didn’t and we got burned.
It feels like the freo players love jackson and that’s a big positive that would have been considered at all in the trade price

 

[ignoramus]

Yeah I could understand that concern but I’m always of the view that elite talent supersedes positional fit.
For example I would always rather have Patrick Dangerfield or Scott Pendlebury on a half forward or half back flank than some specialist player in that position who is not as talented as those two guys.
An elite talent out of position is better than an average player in position.
The top class players just find a way to impact the game wherever they are and their superior football ability shines though.
Much of the hesitation was borne out of previous trade blunders by Freo but hopefully if this trade is shown to be a success we continue to do them. You can’t win the flag without trading well, as you have often pointed out on here.

I honestly can't remember what my view beforehand was. I tend not to get overly worked up about it.

But your Dangerfield/Pendlebury analogy doesn't quite hold because part of the question mark around Jackson would have been about the probability of fulfilling potential. It's not like we were going after a 4 time AA, 6 time club champion. He was a a former pick 3 who admittedly was a premiership player and was very influential in that game, but who had not (yet) proven himself to be capable of putting out those kinds of performance with any consistency. Or at least there was some debate over that point.

It's no good saying he's a tall and tall take longer, either, because that just proves the point that we looking to trade potential (draft picks) for potential (a promising but arguably not quite proven LJ).

If I had any real reservations, I imagine that's what they would've been. Otherwise, I'm of the camp that draft picks are overrated, if you've got the chance to trade them for a proven performer.

 

[Bigger]

I'm avoiding work like the plague (it will hurt me shortly I'm sure) so I had to go a step further and go through this thread in a bit more detail. The thread really takes a nosedive at about page 8 with some really spicy hot takes, presumably after a shitty finals performance by Jacko.

Of course, on page 7, you see this glimpse into a glorious future:

List Mgmt. - Luke Jackson - Yay or Nay?

For the lols... Zac Clark (2014) V Luke Jackson (2022) Zac has him covered for Kicks, Marks, Goals and Hitouts. But who cuts better shapes at Falls Festival?

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Dockeroo]

I honestly can't remember what my view beforehand was. I tend not to get overly worked up about it.

But your Dangerfield/Pendlebury analogy doesn't quite hold because part of the question mark around Jackson would have been about the probability of fulfilling potential. It's not like we were going after a 4 time AA, 6 time club champion. He was a a former pick 3 who admittedly was a premiership player and was very influential in that game, but who had not (yet) proven himself to be capable of putting out those kinds of performance with any consistency. Or at least there was some debate over that point.

It's no good saying he's a tall and tall take longer, either, because that just proves the point that we looking to trade potential (draft picks) for potential (a promising but arguably not quite proven LJ).

If I had any real reservations, I imagine that's what they would've been. Otherwise, I'm of the camp that draft picks are overrated, if you've got the chance to trade them for a proven performer.

I probably meant to say that talent wise he was equivalent to those guys.
A rising star winner and a dominant premiership player with over 50 games of proof he was at worst at a very good level, with years of improvement ahead of him. It was a lot less risky than a draft pick TBH.
Talent wise jackson is in a different stratosphere to Lobb. We were swapping 10-12 years of improving LJ for maybe one year of “average Joe” Lobb.
Put it this way - is there a more reliable and proven key position prospect in the afl 21 and under than LJ? I don’t think so. Certainly can’t think of one.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

I probably meant to say that talent wise he was equivalent to those guys.
A rising star winner and a dominant premiership player with over 50 games of proof he was at worst at a very good level, with years of improvement ahead of him. It was a lot less risky than a draft pick TBH.
Talent wise jackson is in a different stratosphere to Lobb. We were swapping 10-12 years of improving LJ for maybe one year of “average Joe” Lobb.
Put it this way - is there a more reliable and proven key position prospect in the afl 21 and under than LJ? I don’t think so. Certainly can’t think of one.

He’d be well ahead of Tilthorpe and JUH. Amiss is gaining on them quickly.

 

[Dockeroo]

He’d be well ahead of Tilthorpe and JUH. Amiss is gaining on them quickly.

Agreed. Have we ever been able to say that two of the best young talls in the league under the age of 23 play for the freo dockers forward of centre?
I don’t think so.

 

[rgauci]

Jackson would come in, and immediately be our most valuable tall forward if he was acquired.

Amiss is going at 2 goals a game, just turned 19 years old and a former pick 8. Don’t know about that.

Where’s that meme…

 

[rgauci]

Amiss is better than Logan McDonald. A trio of Amiss, Treacy, and Jackson is potent, very young at the moment.

Yes another good call

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Agreed. Have we ever been able to say that two of the best young talls in the league under the age of 23 play for the freo dockers forward of centre?
I don’t think so.

Then consider the extreme likelihood that Treacy is a slower burn than those two due to his draft class being the most compromised by covid. Those three at 25, 26 and 27 will be a three headed beast to behold.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Yes another good call

Great call

 

[estibador]

I fully expect Jackson will become a top quality player. What I worry is he may still have some growing pains to come and the eagles media are going to absolutely crucify him during that period if they've anointed him a highly paid superstar ahead of his time (regardless of how disingenuous that might actually be).

Well I was right about that.

What I didn't expect was he would only provide them with a two week window where they could do it before he would well and truly shut them up.

 

[Wilksyy]

Oof he shooshed a few peeps on here.
Can understand the takes on both sides in this one though.

 

[Joao]

Oof he shooshed a few peeps on here.
Can understand the takes on both sides in this one though.

He got me.

The only defence I have is how bad the Dees made him look in the forwardline, especially last year.

Edit: also trade cost

 

[SHill Shall]

Ffs Jackson is a 20 year old tall that tore a GF apart. He is a good citizen, no dramas about him
Jackson is at least a 10 year proposition. Jackson could definitely play key forward.
A young key forward with unlimited potential that can pinch hit in the ruck.
If he is gettable grab him. Its a big fat yay from me.

Great to see Salim had it sussed!

 

[GingerDocker]

Then consider the extreme likelihood that Treacy is a slower burn than those two due to his draft class being the most compromised by covid. Those three at 25, 26 and 27 will be a three headed beast to behold.

Our very own Cerberus, you could say.

 

[DragoDelph]

Our very own Cerberus, you could say.

The third one is Jackson. But he’s just as scary.

 

[jusjoshin]

I didn't want to pay the price for him. That does not mean I didn't want him, just that I am a tight bastard.

 

[FDH16]

I'm avoiding work like the plague (it will hurt me shortly I'm sure) so I had to go a step further and go through this thread in a bit more detail. The thread really takes a nosedive at about page 8 with some really spicy hot takes, presumably after a shitty finals performance by Jacko.

While I'm sure I could find multiple instances of where you have been proven wrong already, I like this one because you (like all of us mere mortals), underestimated how ******* incredible Amiss is already.

Thanks for confirming, I am never wrong.

 

[Kram]

Then consider the extreme likelihood that Treacy is a slower burn than those two due to his draft class being the most compromised by covid. Those three at 25, 26 and 27 will be a three headed beast to behold.

A lot of big guys in general take time to put it all together.