Unsolved Madeleine McCann - Serialized investigative podcast *New

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FR0GGY

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#28
I'm 99% parents 1% intruder.

Couldn't believe how dodgy this was
If it was the parents i dont think it was planned, rather an accidental overdose.
How do you dispose of a body with no evidence, permanently, in a foreign country, when its not something you do regularly?
 

tryitout

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#29
I'm 99% parents 1% intruder.

Couldn't believe how dodgy this was
Not even on holiday in the safest area of your home country would you leave a kid alone in a hotel room with doors and windows open. Also, the fact that the guy who performed the last "check" on her walked past the room without even bothering to stick your head in? Defeats the purpose of walking up there in the first place.
 

FR0GGY

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#30
Not even on holiday in the safest area of your home country would you leave a kid alone in a hotel room with doors and windows open. Also, the fact that the guy who performed the last "check" on her walked past the room without even bothering to stick your head in? Defeats the purpose of walking up there in the first place.
I believe he stuck his head in but not around the corner, they were checking for noises not if the kids were actually there or not.
 

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#31
I am yet to watch the series, but having some knowledge already of the case, I'm thinking more likely than not, the parents are responsible.

Both parents are doctors. They have access to medication. Did they drug/sedate their children, intending for their children to sleep without being interrupted or disturbed? It's a bit unusual that twins would sleep through six hours of interrupted mayhem as their parents, family and investigators scour in and out the apartment while the twins remain asleep. Did they accidentally kill Maddy while sedating her, and concoct a plan to make it seem like she was abducted?

Also, they used two well trained dogs. One who is trained to sense the odour of a corpse, and the other one trained to sense blood. They both indicated in the same two areas of the apartment that there was a corpse odour and blood.

I don't think the dogs picking up DNA in the boot is relevant. DNA could easily have been transferred into the boot of their hire car via their parents. There was too much DNA in the boot to get a clear read on whether there had been a corpse in the boot. Regardless, the dog trained to pick up the odour of a corpse did not react to the boot - only the dog that could sense blood reacted to the boot.

The window leading into the kids' room being one metre high and less than one metre wide meant it would have been unlikely and impractical that an intruder would have been able to use the window as an entry point, and an exit point while holding Maddy. No way in the world would an intruder, had the kids not been drugged, been able to sleep through all of that commotion. In addition to that, there was no damage to the roller shutters to suggest they were jemmied open. Given Kate had reported she found the window to be open, how is it possible there was no damage to it? The only explanation would be an intruder enters via the front door, opens the window from inside the apartment, and exits out of the window with Maddy. Possible, but a difficult and impractical task. Why do it the difficult way when you are more at risk of being seen?

I also agree with some of the postings here about other members of the Tapas 7 not physically checking to see whether all kids were present.

There's a few more things that would support the "Kate and Gerry" did it argument too.

Does anyone know how many CCTV cameras the resort had? Obviously not in the areas that would have turned this investigation on its head. Strange that there wasn't at least cameras at the Tapas bar.
 
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#32
For anyone interested I’d seriously watch Richard hall and Peter Hyatt on YouTube (embedded confession).
You only have to watch early interviews of the McCann’s to realise something’s a miss.
Gerry with his duper’s delight and talking about Madeline in the past tense.
 

FR0GGY

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#33
I’m also listening to the Maddie podcast and interesting to note that there is a DNA company that can test the DNA evidence from the car and distinguish the identities of the 3 or 4 DNA’s in the mix.
They have offered to do the test for free but the British police won’t give up the samples.
This company using their program True Allele in the last few years freed two men wrongfully convicted 25 and 18 years ago for a murder as they were able to separate and identify multiple DNA’s from one sample.
 
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owen87

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#34
A little dated now but I found a link to an article on Reddit that makes for pretty interesting reading.

https://www.cwporter.com/mccann.htm

It seems to me the simplest and most plausible solution is that the parents were somehow involved.

What doesn’t make sense is why (or how) the other 7 have gone along with it? Why have people quit jobs to work for the McCann’s charity? Where’s all the money gone?

There’s a LOT of loose ends for me, even if we consider the parents did it, that doesn’t explain why or how so many other people have been drawn in to the whole thing?
 

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#35
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/apr/11/madeleinemccann

Every time I think that the parents have done it, I keep coming back to the timeline. At most they have four hours where Madeline is unaccounted for by anyone outside of the parents and the Tapas 7 - in that time period, they have to have drugged her, caused her accidental death, not immediately panic so much that they alert other people, decide to stage a crime scene, convince 7 other people to go along with their plan and hide the body well enough that massive search parties can't find it in the immediate aftermath of her being reported missing.

I struggle to see how all this happens and 9 people maintain the same story for 12 years. It's such a frustrating case.
 

shellyg

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Thread starter Moderator #36
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/apr/11/madeleinemccann

Every time I think that the parents have done it, I keep coming back to the timeline. At most they have four hours where Madeline is unaccounted for by anyone outside of the parents and the Tapas 7 - in that time period, they have to have drugged her, caused her accidental death, not immediately panic so much that they alert other people, decide to stage a crime scene, convince 7 other people to go along with their plan and hide the body well enough that massive search parties can't find it in the immediate aftermath of her being reported missing.

I struggle to see how all this happens and 9 people maintain the same story for 12 years. It's such a frustrating case.
Agree, it doesn't seem to add up really. It only takes a minute to snatch a child I would imagine if someone was watching those apartments it would be straight in and out. It wasn't far to the restaurant but in the pics I've seen that corner apartment particularly at the back where Madeleine was sleeping just under a window would have looked too exposed for me to feel safe leaving my kids in there asleep but they were checking every ten or fifteen minutes.

Not sure about the drugging, did they even take any in with them to Portugal? I think the police might have found some signs if so. If Madeleine was drugged to sleep through the other kids probably were as well, it probably would have been picked up imo.
 

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Kyptastic

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#37
Not sure about the drugging, did they even take any in with them to Portugal? I think the police might have found some signs if so. If Madeleine was drugged to sleep through the other kids probably were as well, it probably would have been picked up imo.
The big thing that suggests that they may have been is the twins slept through all the commotion going on in and around the room - not having kids myself I don't know how likely that would be in a situation like that. Surely if you'd thought that Maddie had been kidnapped from that same room you'd move the other kids out of there quick smart. So many weird things like that litter this case.
 

revo333

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#38
I watched the first 6 episodes of the netflix series last night. Hmmm where to begin?

- If the parents did it, Why did they linger on in Portugal for so long especially with it's reputation? I would think if they did it, they would of wanted to get out of their asap. Also some of their friends would of been in on it (maybe their silence has been paid for). Could of Maddie had died earlier giving them time to get rid of the body, then they decide to cause a false alarm on the night. I also think if they did it they would of made a major stuff up eventually leading them to get found out.

- Her being abducted gave someone only 20 minutes to get in and out of the bedroom without being spotted. Sure they could of sedated the other kids while they were in the room taking Maddie. And i guess it's believable they then drove out of Portugal without being spotted as they said it was only a 90 minute drive out on the country. People saying they were a group of guys acting suspiciously around the apartment in the days leading up to the night makes it more plausible as well.

My opinion while watching the episodes changed 2 or 3 times between an abduction or the parents. At this stage i'm probably leading towards the Parents not being involved in anyway. The shady police work does them a huge favour in being innocent.

I still have the last 2 episodes to watch so maybe my mind might get changed again!
 

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#39
Agree, it doesn't seem to add up really. It only takes a minute to snatch a child I would imagine if someone was watching those apartments it would be straight in and out. It wasn't far to the restaurant but in the pics I've seen that corner apartment particularly at the back where Madeleine was sleeping just under a window would have looked too exposed for me to feel safe leaving my kids in there asleep but they were checking every ten or
From what I’ve seen and read she wasn’t sleeping on the bed under the window.
Was in the one next to the door.
 

FR0GGY

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#40
The big thing that suggests that they may have been is the twins slept through all the commotion going on in and around the room - not having kids myself I don't know how likely that would be in a situation like that. Surely if you'd thought that Maddie had been kidnapped from that same room you'd move the other kids out of there quick smart. So many weird things like that litter this case.
Have 17 month old twins myself!
I wished they slept that well.
I’ve got no doubt if people went in and out of the room over a short time maybe even turned the light on they’d sleep.
But not with people who were no doubt frantic not being quiet, possibly light on most of the time.
 

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#41
I am yet to watch the series, but having some knowledge already of the case, I'm thinking more likely than not, the parents are responsible.
It would be interesting to see if your views change after watching the series.

In the last few episodes they really go deep into the kind of people that were seen hanging around the apartment days prior to the night of her disappearance.

Also mentions some of the sightings within 12 hours after her disappearance that the police never acted on and people only found out about it about years later.

Some very strange stuff on both sides of the coin.
 
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#42
I've watched the Netflix doco and I don't believe the parents had anything to do with it to be honest.

I think it was a people smuggling ring with links to people the parents had come in to contact with during the time there.
I believe the decision to not use the creche, the regular dinner booking and as a result, the reason for why a certain table was requested, allowed the abductors to pinpoint a window of opportunity and they took it.
I don't think the children were drugged by their parents, but I definitely think they were drugged which is why Madeleine couldn't keep awake whilst the book was read, I think they were drugged before they arrived home that night, the younger children to prevent them from waking up again and Madeleine to get her out without raising the alarm.
I think its quite likely that the abductors were in the room when the friend went to check on the kids.

With the amount of media and Police scrutiny in the days and weeks after the event, I cant see where the parents would have had the opportunity to hide and then dispose of her body and not be noticed.
 

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#43
When they mentioned about the twins not being woken at all when there was dozens of frantic people and then Police rummaging through the apartment it pricked my ears up.
 

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Thread starter Moderator #44
From what I’ve seen and read she wasn’t sleeping on the bed under the window.
Was in the one next to the door.
Yes you're right, thanks Froggy I just had a look at the floor plan map thingy. If an abductor came in through the window, he went past the other children to take Madeleine.
 

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#45
There’s a rumour or theory going round that someone in the crèche or kids club may have been involved tipping off the child-smuggling ring that these kids came in every day and were left alone at the same time every night while their parents went to the restaurant. Enabled the kidnappers to plan a pretty quick and efficient grab & run. Possibly rehearsing the plan a night or so before given the regular dinner. Possibly those dodgy people seen hanging round in the lead-up? I’ve not watched all of the docu episodes yet, not sure if this theory is explored?
 

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Moderator #46
I just finished the Netflix doco. Thought it was really good.

They put forward a case for both the parents being guilty or Madeleine being kidnapped.

It's very confusing. Things don't add up - I was of the belief that the parents did it or had a part to play in it, but there's counter arguments to all of it.


Some scenarios that they spoke about in the doco and the way in which they can be refuted were...

Scenario: Kidnapper entered the apartment, took the child and left through the window.
This couldn't have been the case, the Portuguese police did forensic testing on the window and only Kate's palm print was on it.

Scenario: Believing the dogs
UK investigators ran tests on what was found in the boot of the car and in the apartment and the DNA evidence wasn't conclusive.

Scenario: Man seen walking across street with child in arms around 9.30 on the night of the disappearance
Jane Tanner's eye witness report is very sketchy. As the days and months went on, every time she was asked to provide a statement, her recollection of the event had more and more detail each time. I don't believe her. I believe that she may have seen someone, but I think she is, in her head, making herself believe that this was the man who took Madeleine so she doesn't have to accept the fact that her friends killed their child.

One thing that I never could understand (if the McCann's were guilty) is that why did they put so much money & effort into the investigation years after the disappearance. They dragged it on more than anyone else - and if guilty I really doubt they would continue to let the story linger.

It's fascinating. I was convinced they did it after the dogs searched the property & car, but the UK lab testing made me second guess it.

The talk about the strange men lurking the area in the days leading up to the disappearance hold some weight I think, but ultimately all those leads went nowhere.

Usually when a child that young is missing, the people closest to the child are usually responsible - which also led me to believe it was them. I just can't get over those UK lab results...
 

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#47
I just finished the Netflix doco. Thought it was really good.

They put forward a case for both the parents being guilty or Madeleine being kidnapped.

It's very confusing. Things don't add up - I was of the belief that the parents did it or had a part to play in it, but there's counter arguments to all of it.


Some scenarios that they spoke about in the doco and the way in which they can be refuted were...

Scenario: Kidnapper entered the apartment, took the child and left through the window.
This couldn't have been the case, the Portuguese police did forensic testing on the window and only Kate's palm print was on it.

Scenario: Believing the dogs
UK investigators ran tests on what was found in the boot of the car and in the apartment and the DNA evidence wasn't conclusive.

Scenario: Man seen walking across street with child in arms around 9.30 on the night of the disappearance
Jane Tanner's eye witness report is very sketchy. As the days and months went on, every time she was asked to provide a statement, her recollection of the event had more and more detail each time. I don't believe her. I believe that she may have seen someone, but I think she is, in her head, making herself believe that this was the man who took Madeleine so she doesn't have to accept the fact that her friends killed their child.

One thing that I never could understand (if the McCann's were guilty) is that why did they put so much money & effort into the investigation years after the disappearance. They dragged it on more than anyone else - and if guilty I really doubt they would continue to let the story linger.

It's fascinating. I was convinced they did it after the dogs searched the property & car, but the UK lab testing made me second guess it.

The talk about the strange men lurking the area in the days leading up to the disappearance hold some weight I think, but ultimately all those leads went nowhere.

Usually when a child that young is missing, the people closest to the child are usually responsible - which also led me to believe it was them. I just can't get over those UK lab results...
From what I can understand the up lab results couldn’t come to a conclusion as there were multiple DNA’s mixed into the samples, they haven’t got the tech to separate them but the tech is out there and a company has offered to test for free (listen to the Maddie podcast and it’s explained there) but so far the data isn’t being made available to them.
 

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Moderator #48
From what I can understand the up lab results couldn’t come to a conclusion as there were multiple DNA’s mixed into the samples, they haven’t got the tech to separate them but the tech is out there and a company has offered to test for free (listen to the Maddie podcast and it’s explained there) but so far the data isn’t being made available to them.
I watched a video that was posted here about that guy doing statement analysis on one of their early interviews after the disappearance and that really did it for me. They basically confessed to the crime.
 

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#49
I watched a video that was posted here about that guy doing statement analysis on one of their early interviews after the disappearance and that really did it for me. They basically confessed to the crime.
If not to much trouble, could you please tell me where I could find that post?
Statement analysis predominately focusses on ascertaining emotive detachment and or attachment to narratives; typically focussing on first person past tense as benchmark. Nothing in the interviews I've watched screams out a sense of emotive detachment in the parents narratives; ie word choice, as distinct from body language

Would really like to see the documentary you have referred to. It sounds like it may be very interesting.
 

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Moderator #50
If not to much trouble, could you please tell me where I could find that post?
Statement analysis predominately focusses on ascertaining emotive detachment and or attachment to narratives; typically focussing on first person past tense as benchmark. Nothing in the interviews I've watched screams out a sense of emotive detachment in the parents narratives; ie word choice, as distinct from body language

Would really like to see the documentary you have referred to. It sounds like it may be very interesting.
Sure thing. This is the video


Found it fascinating...it all but settles it for me.
 
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