Unsolved Madeleine McCann - Serialized investigative podcast *New

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Opine

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#54
I’m glad he’s not analyzing anything I say.
He can pick holes in anything.
Applying principles of statement analysis; its clear that you truthful in saying that you are glad that he is not analysing what you say. I believe you :)

What's interesting though, is that you've limited your feeling of being glad, to what you may say in future; as distinct from what you have already said in the past. Why is that? ;)
 
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X_box_X

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#56
Fascinating.

I want to learn more about it and look at using it in my field of work.

If I do have any slight criticism in my not so expert opinion (I am only 43 minutes into the posted video), what Peter fails to acknowledge or take into account is the Sunday Night interview has cut out the questions the reporter has asked.

A lot of what Kate and Gerry are saying may be a direct result of answering a question the interviewer is asking.

While Peter makes mention of Gerry needing to justify the way he felt in order to convince the audience of how he felt (he said "we felt very relaxed"), how does Peter know the interviewer didn't ask, "Gerry, tell us how you and Kate felt?"
 

Opine

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#57
Fascinating.

I want to learn more about it and look at using it in my field of work.

If I do have any slight criticism in my not so expert opinion (I am only 43 minutes into the posted video), what Peter fails to acknowledge or take into account is the Sunday Night interview has cut out the questions the reporter has asked.

A lot of what Kate and Gerry are saying may be a direct result of answering a question the interviewer is asking.

While Peter makes mention of Gerry needing to justify the way he felt in order to convince the audience of how he felt (he said "we felt very relaxed"), how does Peter know the interviewer didn't ask, "Gerry, tell us how you and Kate felt?"
There are some excellent statement/discourse analysis books and courses; I can forward the details of specialist books if your interested. From memory, the course I enrolled a while ago also provided a statement analysis program; which allows the input of text and puts out an analysis highlighting red flags in statements.
 

X_box_X

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#58
There are some excellent statement/discourse analysis books and courses; I can forward the details of specialist books if your interested. From memory, the course I enrolled a while ago also provided a statement analysis program; which allows the input of text and puts out an analysis highlighting red flags in statements.
Yes please. PM me
 

FR0GGY

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#60
Fascinating.

I want to learn more about it and look at using it in my field of work.

If I do have any slight criticism in my not so expert opinion (I am only 43 minutes into the posted video), what Peter fails to acknowledge or take into account is the Sunday Night interview has cut out the questions the reporter has asked.

A lot of what Kate and Gerry are saying may be a direct result of answering a question the interviewer is asking.

While Peter makes mention of Gerry needing to justify the way he felt in order to convince the audience of how he felt (he said "we felt very relaxed"), how does Peter know the interviewer didn't ask, "Gerry, tell us how you and Kate felt?"
I thought the same.
Also wasn’t the interview 3 or 4 years down the track so I think tense can be excused in some situations.
 

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Sylvia Saint

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#62
The Peter Hyatt documentary is excellent. While he does over analyse a tad, he has more than enough substance that sticks. Funnily enough his summary is exactly what I suspected before watching it. The death was not intentional, and covered up. It totally makes sense. The McCann's would have known admitting to it would have led to them losing custody of the twins, not to mention their medical licenses and jail time. The kidnapper story doesn't add up too.
 

FR0GGY

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#63
The Peter Hyatt documentary is excellent. While he does over analyse a tad, he has more than enough substance that sticks. Funnily enough his summary is exactly what I suspected before watching it. The death was not intentional, and covered up. It totally makes sense. The McCann's would have known admitting to it would have led to them losing custody of the twins, not to mention their medical licenses and jail time. The kidnapper story doesn't add up too.
The accidental death theory is certainly sound however I just can’t get over how they can dispose of a body in a foreign place with no evidence especially given they most likely haven’t done it before and I’m sure they were watched like a hawk in the weeks/months following.
 

Sylvia Saint

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#64
The accidental death theory is certainly sound however I just can’t get over how they can dispose of a body in a foreign place with no evidence especially given they most likely haven’t done it before and I’m sure they were watched like a hawk in the weeks/months following.
That's certainly one thing to consider against the theory but the official timeframe isn't necessarily accurate. When was Madeline last seen by someone that wasn't Gerry or Kate?
 

FR0GGY

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#65
That's certainly one thing to consider against the theory but the official timeframe isn't necessarily accurate. When was Madeline last seen by someone that wasn't Gerry or Kate?
About 4hrs I think, however that relies on the rest of the group to be in on it. I just don’t see how someone hasn’t cracked over all these years if that happened.
Be interesting to know if they are all still friends.
 

smiddaz123

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#66
The statement that Hyatt analysed was something like 4 years after Madeleine disappeared. I imagine the language they use there would be very different to in a statement done just after the disappearance. After 4 years they're mostly likely assuming their child is dead by this stage even if they didn't do it. Most of his analysis seems more applicable to just after the disappearance. Would be more interested the oldest interview done with them to see if the holes Hyatt picked in their statements are consistent or not. Definitely if they were showing that much lack of care in what was happening to Madeleine at that time, it's very compelling.

I also find a few language holes he picks a bit odd and a bit of a stretch. He pulls up Gerry for using the word 'actually' and says it's a sign of deception because it shows what he is saying is being compared to something else. Hyatt himself uses the word actually plenty from memory. For example, I remember him saying "Gerry actually confesses here" instead of "Gerry confesses here". I more feel like it's just an innocent word that's used by almost everybody when talking.

That said, there's enough there to make me think they're guilty. Very interesting viewing.
 

FR0GGY

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#67
The statement that Hyatt analysed was something like 4 years after Madeleine disappeared. I imagine the language they use there would be very different to in a statement done just after the disappearance. After 4 years they're mostly likely assuming their child is dead by this stage even if they didn't do it. Most of his analysis seems more applicable to just after the disappearance. Would be more interested the oldest interview done with them to see if the holes Hyatt picked in their statements are consistent or not. Definitely if they were showing that much lack of care in what was happening to Madeleine at that time, it's very compelling.

I also find a few language holes he picks a bit odd and a bit of a stretch. He pulls up Gerry for using the word 'actually' and says it's a sign of deception because it shows what he is saying is being compared to something else. Hyatt himself uses the word actually plenty from memory. For example, I remember him saying "Gerry actually confesses here" instead of "Gerry confesses here". I more feel like it's just an innocent word that's used by almost everybody when talking.


That said, there's enough there to make me think they're guilty. Very interesting viewing.
Pretty well my thoughts too.
 

smiddaz123

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#68
One thing that does bug me though, is that if it was an accidental death and cover up, the crazy exposure the McCanns have gone for and the ongoing attempts to keep the investigation going makes no sense. Surely in this case, they would be looking to get away with it and have as little investigation into it done as possible. I can't imagine anybody going down the media route after attempting to get away with being responsible for the death of their child.

There's the argument to be made that they've been trying to profit from it, but they already would have been quite well off. Also, it seems like such a strange jump in logic.

"Oh **** we killed her. We need to cover it up"
"Maybe we can make a quick buck off it too?"?

I can see the link with a premeditated killing, but not with an accidental death that they want to cover up.
 

shellyg

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That said, there's enough there to make me think they're guilty. Very interesting viewing.
I haven't gone right through the video yet, I'm a bit pushed for time atm but just a thought. As parents I wonder if signs of guilt might be showing in their language well, because they are guilty. As far as Madeleine was concerned, they had one job and they failed leaving her unprotected and exposed to a predator while they went out for dinner.

It wouldn't matter imo if adults were checking kids every fifteen minutes and the restaurant was only fifty yards away, the responsibility of allowing that to happen would haunt me for the rest of my life.
 

Opine

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#70
... the responsibility of allowing that to happen would haunt me for the rest of my life.
Excellent point. People should keep the point you've raised in mind when forming their own opinions. I think most parents, and guardians, would feel a sense of failed responsibility if a child in their care disappeared, or was hurt; regardless of circumstances. Like you, I would feel haunted for the rest of my days for having failed to prevent it. That doesn't mean a parent/s is blameworthy.
 
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PenfoldsFan

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#71
I just don't see how they could have done it and it still be concealed all this time.
It is said that she, along with her siblings was in day care during the day of the disappearance, they were collected and within a few hours she disappears and is never found.
Its not like they were home and in familiar surroundings, so the question must be asked, if it wasn't premeditated, and nothing would suggest that was the case, it was either spur of the moment homicide or accidental.
With that in mind, and knowing the Police/media attention which ensued, the window of opportunity to dispose of the body would have been very narrow and this would need to also account for the actual incident, the decision to cover it up, convincing everyone in their party to go along with it and finding somewhere close by to dispose of the body which to this day has not been uncovered.
Compare that to an abduction by an unknown person and I know what is easier to believe just based on what is most likely to be pulled off without fault.

Ive never been to Portugal but i've been to a few resorts and been on a number of cruises and one thing that has stuck out to me in these environments is that despite the belief that the hosts/crews job is to make you feel welcomed, after dark, when they are off duty, the often sinister feeling you get leaves you feeling in no uncertain terms that they are not your friends and sometimes quite the opposite.
They are there to provide a service and you are there to provide an income, if your not upholding your end of the deal it would stand out.
It was said in the Doco that Gerry wasn't a person that you could easily take to and from his demeanour in the weeks following he appeared to have a hard edge, combine this with the fact that they lost a child who was left virtually unsupervised which could have been avoided had they spent a few extra dollars on the creche where they would have been safe and sound like hundreds if not thousands of kids before them and to me it points to perhaps the initial abduction may have been to teach them a lesson, perhaps a ransom may have been part of the plan, however, once it became a media circus, the opportunity to cash in dried up but the problem of what to do with Madi remained.
What they did with her is anybody's guess, but i dont believe the parents were involved, however, they may have known more than they let on which is why they hung around so long and continued to suggest that she was alive.

Thoughts.
 
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FR0GGY

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#72
I do like the theory that someone from the tapas bar provided information to people about the McCann’s regular routine of going for dinner and leaving the kids.
 

sprockets

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#73
I have no opinion on guilt or innocence but if it's right that the kids were put in day care while they were ALL on holidays it sends a message that the kids weren't all that loved. Leaving them alone while you were out for dinner says the same. Surely a holiday is for the whole family?
 

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#74
I have no opinion on guilt or innocence but if it's right that the kids were put in day care while they were ALL on holidays it sends a message that the kids weren't all that loved. Leaving them alone while you were out for dinner says the same. Surely a holiday is for the whole family?
I think Day Care is probably the wrong terminology on my part, it was a Kids Club type scenario where you book them in and they are taken during the day for different activities.
It was said that during one of these activities throughout the week that Madeleine fell from a boat or some type of water craft and hit her head.
Its also said that someone fitting the description of one of the people seen in the vicinity of the apartment block during the week was also seen watching the children at the beach.
But you are right though, and this adds to what I was suggesting in my previous post, I get the impression from the movements and actions of the parents that the children may have been a burden on their experience.
I get the impression that spending money on themselves for whatever they were doing whilst the kids were in Kids Club, probably shopping or drinking, and dining out in the evening was quite acceptable, but they couldn't stretch their money to cover Creche at night and excused it by suggesting that picking them up after dinner would inconvenience the kids too much due to the time of day it would have been.
For people with their income, its telling.
When you think about it, of all the kids who go there on holiday, what made this one stand out?
Im thinking its more to do with what was going on within the group than anything that set her apart from all the rest.
 

juzza316

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#75
Parent nothing to do with it for mine. Terrible parenting leaving them alone but not murderers.
The location of the apartment (street corner) also makes it much more sense to be an abduction.
 
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