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The Victorian

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It might be a nice design, but no new Australian flag should have any link to an individual culture or group. Doing so gives that group symbolic priority over all others and would cause division. Removing the middle section may leave the design looking a bit less nice, but would be more appropriate for the country.
Adding to this, PC these days wouldnt pass it as 'everyone needs to be equal'
 

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It might be a nice design, but no new Australian flag should have any link to an individual culture or group. Doing so gives that group symbolic priority over all others and would cause division. Removing the middle section may leave the design looking a bit less nice, but would be more appropriate for the country.
Personally I'd see it as acknowledgment of the first people of the land, but your point to remove it is fair as well.
 

caloschwaby

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It might be a nice design, but no new Australian flag should have any link to an individual culture or group. Doing so gives that group symbolic priority over all others and would cause division. Removing the middle section may leave the design looking a bit less nice, but would be more appropriate for the country.
Totally agree with this. Though without getting too in-depth about this, many groups would feel that the omission of links to their culture/group is insult/whatever.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't :/
 

magpienato

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Personally I'd see it as acknowledgment of the first people of the land, but your point to remove it is fair as well.
Yeah I was on the same track. With today's political climate, if there was a new flag referendum it would not surprise me to see politicians kick up a storm if a new flag doesn't incorporate XYZ group. Not going too deep into my political views but I really think we need to put the past to rest for the sake of the future of this country, I'd hate to see us become as divided racially as the US is today. A flag which incorporates aboriginal culture I'd say would be the best step towards truly moving on. But on the flip side I dislike over pandering to certain groups based on identity politics.
 

magpienato

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Thread starter #156
Progress. Really wishing I had done this for my Tsars design in the NAFLR, might've just made the difference.

1547336984997.png


ps sorry for red bomber shorts, just showing off the colour ;)
 
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fancyscum

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Yeah I was on the same track. With today's political climate, if there was a new flag referendum it would not surprise me to see politicians kick up a storm if a new flag doesn't incorporate XYZ group. Not going too deep into my political views but I really think we need to put the past to rest for the sake of the future of this country, I'd hate to see us become as divided racially as the US is today. A flag which incorporates aboriginal culture I'd say would be the best step towards truly moving on. But on the flip side I dislike over pandering to certain groups based on identity politics.
Indigenous Australians aren't just 'XYZ group' they are the indigenous people of the land. I'd have no issue voting for a flag with ties to indigenous culture, provided that an overwhelming majority of indigenous people want to have their culture represented on there. It's got nothing to do with 'identity politics', such a BS term.
 

craegus

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Indigenous Australians aren't just 'XYZ group' they are the indigenous people of the land. I'd have no issue voting for a flag with ties to indigenous culture, provided that an overwhelming majority of indigenous people want to have their culture represented on there. It's got nothing to do with 'identity politics', such a BS term.
The problem there is that the Indigenous population of Australia makes up just 3% of the total population. Now it is all good that they are recognised as the first people of the land, but to represent such a small population on something that represents all 100% of the population just doesn't work.

Flags being one of the most recognisable aspects of a nations identity and pride should have no links to any specific people or groups, and represent the population as a whole (one of the reasons the current flag is flawed). That way there is no debate over it, or no ways that the flag can be effectively used as a symbol of hate towards others, it would be a unifying device to bring all Australians (new or original) together.
 

fancyscum

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The problem there is that the Indigenous population of Australia makes up just 3% of the total population. Now it is all good that they are recognised as the first people of the land, but to represent such a small population on something that represents all 100% of the population just doesn't work.

Flags being one of the most recognisable aspects of a nations identity and pride should have no links to any specific people or groups, and represent the population as a whole (one of the reasons the current flag is flawed). That way there is no debate over it, or no ways that the flag can be effectively used as a symbol of hate towards others, it would be a unifying device to bring all Australians (new or original) together.
That's totally fine, but I wanted to put forward that they are of more relevance to the discussion here than Vietnamese Australians, Italian Australians, African Australians etc. as Australia has been their land for 1000's of years, long before anyone else.

I understand that they are only a small section of Australian society (not going to derail this thread with that though) but I'm not interested in something that is looking to please everyone, as that is frankly impossible. At the end of the day there's a lot of white people that just hate black people and a lot of black people that hate white people, personally though I think that the 'golden wattle' flag is probably the closest you can get though, I'd like to believe that all Aussies can unite around the unique landscape that we share.
 

magpienato

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Thread starter #160
Indigenous Australians aren't just 'XYZ group' they are the indigenous people of the land. I'd have no issue voting for a flag with ties to indigenous culture, provided that an overwhelming majority of indigenous people want to have their culture represented on there. It's got nothing to do with 'identity politics', such a BS term.
I don't really want to talk politics on this thread so we'll just leave it at a disagreement.
 

fancyscum

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I don't really want to talk politics on this thread so we'll just leave it at a disagreement.
I simply said that Indigenous Australians were an important part of the discussion around our flag, not just any old group of people. You first mentioned the issues of racial divides and identity politics. I feel like I was pretty conscious of not derailing the thread and trying to keep the convo around the flag which you brought up, unlike a certain poster who saw it as a chance to go with his political correctness has gone mad schtick.
 

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magpienato

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Thread starter #162
I simply said that Indigenous Australians were an important part of the discussion around our flag, not just any old group of people. You first mentioned the issues of racial divides and identity politics. I feel like I was pretty conscious of not derailing the thread and trying to keep the convo around the flag which you brought up, unlike a certain poster who saw it as a chance to go with his political correctness has gone mad schtick.
What I was saying about the XYZ groups was more of LGBT stuff, this group, that group and just pandering to small groups of people for the sake of diversity. That to me is what identity politics in the 21st century is. I wasn't trying to say Indigenous Australians weren't important enough to be on the flag, I agree they should be on the flag hence why I put them on my flag. You're not in the wrong here, I didn't think you were derailing it either. Just didn't want it to spiral out but thank you for your wise input fancy :)
 
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