Autopsy Magpies Season 2020

[gouki88]

the Melb game was after 4 games in 14 days.
And in each of the others we beat the same team during the year.
So your point is moot.

How is the point moot? What point have I even made? That we squared the ledger means nothing - we and the Bulldogs were probably the two most inconsistent teams in the competition. Our good is as good as anyone's, it just only showed up a few times this season. We have 3 standout wins this year: Bulldogs, Geelong and West Coast. We have three huge losses to West Coast, Melbourne and Geelong, as well as two pretty poor showings against the Giants and the Dockers. The rest were meh results.

There's no way to quantify things like our condensed travel-heavy fixture. No one team nor player would respond the same. I know people have held the resort thing against the players, but I don't know if that's fair. Reasonable to expect disrupted results in a disrupted season.

What isn't reasonable is for our best to be 10 goals off our worst, and to see both in a 7 day period is even less reasonable, nor excusable

 

[No SPIN]

I think one factor played a decisive role in our season this year and that was the hub and travel. You can pretty much take it to the bank that the two teams who have had a pretty settled year (no to very little hub) will make the GF. And that is Port and Brisbane.

At the end of the day, the players are humans and not robots. Most players need downtime and personal space between games to do the things outside of football that they enjoy. Being in the hub did not allow this. They were confined to a certain area week after week. They were basically all on top of each other. Personally, I would have hated this. I don't care how much money I was being paid, but being in a hub would have been extremely taxing mentally. No doubt there were many players were struggled with this. And when you are struggling mentally it affects your on field performance. No amount of mental toughness will improve that.

I think players like Grundy, Stevo, Pendles, and Moore would have struggled with this. But I think Grundy struggled the most. I knew he was experiencing mental health struggles with being in the hub. You could see it on his face. It's the main reason he has not performed well at all this year. He is an introverted character and a deep thinker. I'm sure he has a lot of hobbies he does between games that helps to keep him centered and focused on playing football. I don't care how much money the bloke is being paid. He was clearly struggling mentally this year.

I also don't care about them being in a 5-star resort. Their movements are still confined. They can't go for a drive. They can't go out to meet friends. They can't do normal things that we all do. And I know folk in Vic have been in this place for most of the year. But these players are expected to perform at an elite level while their personal lives have been significantly changed. Change for most of us is difficult at the best of times let alone being expected to play at the top level week in week out. I've also been to Twin Waters. Let me tell you it's a bit of sh*t hole. The whole place needs serious renovations. It's far from a 5-star resort. Sure being at the beach is nice, but it gets old quick.

So, with that all said, I think it's safe to say we did as best as we could this year given the circumstances that were thrown at us namely the hardest draw (travel part of it) out of any team in the league. We finished 8th and won one of the best finals to date.

It's also clear to me though that we need to cut some dead wood from the team and be aggressive during the trade. Players like Thomas, Phillips, WHE, Varcoe and possibly Maybe need to go. We need a KPF. We are also a few big body mids short.

I don't feel it all falls on Bucks shoulders. I will give Bucks one more year under a normal season to see if he can get this side a flag.

One last thing. I don't berate Sidebottom for leaving the hub to be with his first child. It's his earlier actions that have left a sour taste in my mouth. He has let the club down this year and as Vice Captain that isn't good enough. I'd honestly prefer if Maynard took over the role as Vice Captain. Sidebottom owes us big time next year.

Great post - so many extraneous variables impacting the season, offer a realist perspective sadly missing here since last night.

 

[No SPIN]

How is the point moot? What point have I even made? That we squared the ledger means nothing - we and the Bulldogs were probably the two most inconsistent teams in the competition. Our good is as good as anyone's, it just only showed up a few times this season. We have 3 standout wins this year: Bulldogs, Geelong and West Coast. We have three huge losses to West Coast, Melbourne and Geelong, as well as two pretty poor showings against the Giants and the Dockers. The rest were meh results.

There's no way to quantify things like our condensed travel-heavy fixture. No one team nor player would respond the same. I know people have held the resort thing against the players, but I don't know if that's fair. Reasonable to expect disrupted results in a disrupted season.

What isn't reasonable is for our best to be 10 goals off our worst, and to see both in a 7 day period is even less reasonable, nor excusable

moot regarding 10 goals losses - we beat 2 of the 3 teams, and played 4 games in 14 days with the other.
So there were legitimate reasons dismissing your a point that we need to be alarmed about our 10 goal losses - hence the point is moot.

 

[gouki88]

moot regarding 10 goals losses - we beat 2 of the 3 teams, and played 4 games in 14 days with the other.
So there were legitimate reasons dismissing your a point that we need to be alarmed about our 10 goal losses - hence the point is moot.

I don't think beating Geelong in the H&A season dismisses the valid concern over being belted in our most embarrassing final since '09. In fact, it's irrelevant. If you're not alarmed if the last game then I'm concerned about that

 

[DaVe86]

The win last week was a nice little bonus, but ultimately we were never deserving this year and ultimately the gulf between us and a top 4 side was laid bare last night.

The truth is that the West Coast win covered up some pretty large cracks. Firstly, our midfield was slaughtered in centre clearances, and our rucks were beaten. Plus Cox and Mihocek had freak games that are almost impossible to replicate week in week out...and it doesn't change the fact we still lack a power forward. Plus De Goey's 2 goals covered the fact he has been pretty quiet in recent weeks. Also, we have zero passengers, which has not been the case at nearly any stage this year.

It was a terrific win, and left us with something to hang our hats on in 2020. But it was the equivalent of a dying person who comes to life a bit before the ultimate end. The problem with winning games the way we did last week is that it requires each and every player to be on top of their game and playing to the limit. Once the intensity drops off though, results like last night can happen. And its happened on 3 occasions this year now.

We obviously need to develop a system that is more functional, so we don't need to just rely on effort. The power forward is the obvious problem, but we can't kid ourselves that there are holes all over the field. In fact, I reckon our midfield is just as big a problem, despite the big names we have in there. We need a big bodied mid...and Sier's absence late in the year was staggering really. We also desperately need a crumbing forward, some outside run on the wing and of course a power forward.

Overall, we should be mighty proud that we made it to a semi in a year where a lot went against us. It showed real heart. If you look at the top 4 and their injury lists right now, they are basically all completely full strength. We were chasing our tails all season.

But we also need to be serious with ourselves that we've been close to the mark for 3 years now, but ultimately not quite close enough. So we need to be aggressive. Rolling out with the same 22 in 2021 is not going to get us any further. If it means making a few big list calls, then so be it. Something has to give. But if we have a fitter Brodie Grundy, as well as Howe and Sidebottom back, then we can challenge again. We just need to round off the edges of our list. I don't think it will be hard to find a decent small forward, and there are a number of talls on the market right now. I think though we should be pushing for another mid as the priority, or just backing Sier in and putting faith in him.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

You took West Coast out, gotta be happy with that. I am.

 

[No SPIN]

I don't think beating Geelong in the H&A season dismisses the valid concern over being belted in our most embarrassing final since '09. In fact, it's irrelevant. If you're not alarmed if the last game then I'm concerned about that

Where was your alarm last week?
We beat GEEL with an understrength team during the season - so clearly other factors contributed last night.

 

[gouki88]

Where was your alarm last week?
We beat GEEL with an understrength team during the season - so clearly other factors contributed last night.

My alarm was there, all game, about our weakness in the centre clearance and our lack of grunt. Which we didn't try and remedy by remaining unchanged. I do like the assumption that because we won an emotionally impressive victory that nobody here was concerned with how we actually played.

What do you mean other factors? This is the 2nd year running our consistency has been down the toilet. I guess your tried and tested point about us improving year after year is now well and truly in the bin at least

 

[No SPIN]

My alarm was there, all game, about our weakness in the centre clearance and our lack of grunt. Which we didn't try and remedy by remaining unchanged. I do like the assumption that because we won an emotionally impressive victory that nobody here was concerned with how we actually played.

What do you mean other factors? This is the 2nd year running our consistency has been down the toilet. I guess your tried and tested point about us improving year after year is now well and truly in the bin at least

Lack of grunt last week? We won CP and stoppage clearance and lost CC as most teams do against NN.
We won the unwinnable game and against all odds - a hugely impressive achievement.
AND we turned around the 10 goals loss from earlier in the year.

Other factors ? - how about a final capitulation due to the impact of major disruptions in season 2020.

I personally think its the best 17 game season we've ever had

 

[gouki88]

Lack of grunt last week? We won CP and stoppage clearance and lost CC as most teams do against NN.
We won the unwinnable game and against all odds - a hugely impressive achievement.
AND we turned around the 10 goals loss from earlier in the year.

Other factors ? - how about a final capitulation due to the impact of major disruptions in season 2020.

I personally think its the best 17 game season we've ever had

I'll certainly concede your last point. Either way, I expect a better year next year with (hopefully) a clean bill of health. No point in fans cannibalizing after a shitshow game like last night

 

[Finnishpie]

We actually didn't do too badly against most of the top sides. We managed a win against all bar Port and Brisbane (an 8 and a 16 point loss)and the draw with Richmond. We did what we have done in recent seasons and lost games we probably should be expected to win. God knows what happened last night but this year has been weird in a lot of ways.

yeah, I guess I meant that we never had much momentum and we weren’t dominant and didn’t look dominant.

west coast and Melbourne both smacked us.

the others like Richmond and gws and port still looked better than us.

so I think we really were in the bottom of the 8

 

[Aussie pie]

I’d definitely be on the trade Stevo bandwagon. Young and has some value, could get something good for him.

 

[JLC]

This ^

Would like to see our players used tally over the last decade. Because since 2010 it seems like we’ve never had a good year with injuries. And crucially its our top 15 players getting injured or suspended year in year out

Took until like rd 17 to have Pendlebury, Treloar, Adams, De Goey in the line up together. Even then we were missing Howe and Sidebottom. And it took most of the year before Cox could return in form from his eye injury. Ditto Stephenson and glandular fever. Then there’s the whole ongoing Beams saga that robs us of the additional midfield presence and clearances we need.

Change the above. Use only 30-32 players this year and we’re top 4

We just need some luck from the injury gods in 2021 and no more off field dramas, and we are back in top 6 contention

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I'm a little against trading players that are 'fabric' to the club it can break culture, look at Adelaide, Melbourne and St.kilda in recent memory. trading treloar who bleeds black and white would not be wise, his contract will be up i think soon and will be on a reduced salary. we don't need wholesale changes. we know Key forward is one Cox has been the best player on our list to fulfill that role but if we can get a gusnton or snag Cameron. key back is another spot. and then a genuine electric crumbing forward and Wing. essentially from our side last night

Howe comes in for magden. A key back comes in for roughhead. a key forward comes in for Cox. an electric forward in for thomas and a wing comes in for mayne.

The group cannot be allowed to get too cosy or insular.

Who are these players that are coming in and secondly what are you giving up to acquire them?

Those changes are good in theory but also fail to address the elephant in the room that is our midfield and stoppage work.

 

[domin8tors]

Yeah, I feel this is as far as this list can go. Missing a few key pieces. Don’t need to bottom out but a step back before we can challenge again in, say, 3 years.

I don't think 3 years away, i think that we are still in the window

Howe and Sidebottom come straight in as genuine A graders. with luck let's bring in Langdon and a fit Sier who in my opinion is best 22 just needs a run at it. and if* stephenson and grundy can even be half the players they were in 2018 is an improvement

delist / retire are Reid, Varcoe, Dunn, Beams, Broomhead, scharenberg, which also takes around 1.1 - 1.3 salary cap. also Langdon if* he retires adds another 500k to the salary.
trade table or on last year to prove themselves under contract for 2021 would be Phillips. Roughead, Thomas, Mayne, Murphy, Appleby, Wills. and potentially Stephenson. that's another 1+ mil.

Our best 22 is still one of the most talented if we can attract a genuine star at full forward then our best 22 is still damn strong.

you can assume consistent form not dissimilar to this year from those bolded and improvement / a full season from those in color red and unknown is left unmarked. In my opinion that's 11 of our best 22 that will improve us for a side that finished 6th. and i look at last night as an aberration.

B: Noble - Magden - Quaynor
HB: Crisp - Moore - Howe
C: Maynard - Pendles - Daicos
HF: Elliott - Mihocek - Sidebottom
F:Stephenson - Gunston or Cameron - De Goey
Foll:Grundy, Adams, Treloar
Bench: Langdon, Sier, Kelly, Greenwood
emer:Mayne, Rantall, Bianco. Hoskin elliott, Brown,

 

[domin8tors]

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The group cannot be allowed to get too cosy or insular.

Who are these players that are coming in and secondly what are you giving up to acquire them?

Those changes are good in theory but also fail to address the elephant in the room that is our midfield and stoppage work.

I know that this will get slammed down But.. i can see a few positional changes. i would love to see Treloar off HB. and maynard on the wing. I don't think that we have many players with massive trade value but we can certainly get 3rd rounders from Phillips, Hoskin Elliott, maybe a 4th rounder for scharenberg.

Broomhead will get delisted

 

[GutsyBug]

I'm bloody devastated after last night, that was the worst performance I've ever seen a decent Pies team put up, and in such an important game.

But this morning has given me a new perspective.

For our lads to spend the better part of a year in a bubble, away from home, away from family, away from everything that keeps the average person happy and grounded, and to still make the finals and give the Eagles some off-season misery! I can't do anything but smile. I know that if I was in their position I couldn't have made it through.

It sucks the way this season ended, but the fact that the team got to this position in the year from hell is a testament to the club and a testament to the culture that we've created. I can't wait for 2021!

 

[bunter]

Boy that was hard to take last night, thank god for beer.
Never really got on a roll this year, played some outstanding footy in between long patches of not so outstanding.
i think all the Vic teams did it hard so no excuses really. Last night we played like 8th placed team against a top four side. Im not sure what we should do about the slide and lack of consistency but I’m a bit of a Nuffie anyway so will leave the analysis to others.
Thanks for the ride this year team and fellow posters, I maybe expected too much from you last night after the WCE game.
Magpies won the flag today in our local league, beat the undefeated Bulldogs.

 

[magpie_marty]

My analogy of our season is this,
Like a car climbing a mountain and gives it's best,but at the end of the day the car is not good enough to reach the top.

 

[bunter]

My analogy of our season is this,
Like a car climbing a mountain and gives it's best,but at the end of the day the car is not good enough to reach the top.

A Datsun 120Y ?

 

[legendstatus]

I'm a little against trading players that are 'fabric' to the club it can break culture, look at Adelaide, Melbourne and St.kilda in recent memory. trading treloar who bleeds black and white would not be wise, his contract will be up i think soon and will be on a reduced salary. we don't need wholesale changes. we know Key forward is one Cox has been the best player on our list to fulfill that role but if we can get a gusnton or snag Cameron. key back is another spot. and then a genuine electric crumbing forward and Wing. essentially from our side last night

Howe comes in for magden. A key back comes in for roughhead. a key forward comes in for Cox. an electric forward in for thomas and a wing comes in for mayne.

Do we need to trade for these spots ?????


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JLC]

I know that this will get slammed down But.. i can see a few positional changes. i would love to see Treloar off HB. and maynard on the wing. I don't think that we have many players with massive trade value but we can certainly get 3rd rounders from Phillips, Hoskin Elliott, maybe a 4th rounder for scharenberg.

Broomhead will get delisted

Maynard on the wing would be a ripper. Would love that move.

 

[nahnah]

Were our fitness levels this season at an AFL standard? Seem to spend majority of the games exhausted.

 

[Finnishpie]

I don't think 3 years away, i think that we are still in the window

Howe and Sidebottom come straight in as genuine A graders. with luck let's bring in Langdon and a fit Sier who in my opinion is best 22 just needs a run at it. and if* stephenson and grundy can even be half the players they were in 2018 is an improvement

delist / retire are Reid, Varcoe, Dunn, Beams, Broomhead, scharenberg, which also takes around 1.1 - 1.3 salary cap. also Langdon if* he retires adds another 500k to the salary.
trade table or on last year to prove themselves under contract for 2021 would be Phillips. Roughead, Thomas, Mayne, Murphy, Appleby, Wills. and potentially Stephenson. that's another 1+ mil.

Our best 22 is still one of the most talented if we can attract a genuine star at full forward then our best 22 is still damn strong.

you can assume consistent form not dissimilar to this year from those bolded and improvement / a full season from those in color red and unknown is left unmarked. In my opinion that's 11 of our best 22 that will improve us for a side that finished 6th. and i look at last night as an aberration.

B: Noble - Magden - Quaynor
HB: Crisp - Moore - Howe
C: Maynard - Pendles - Daicos
HF: Elliott - Mihocek - Sidebottom
F:Stephenson - Gunston or Cameron - De Goey
Foll:Grundy, Adams, Treloar
Bench: Langdon, Sier, Kelly, Greenwood
emer:Mayne, Rantall, Bianco. Hoskin elliott, Brown,

Yeah, appreciate the thoughts but there are too many maybes in there for me.

Langdon is done, I’d say. So too Mayne, but for different reasons.

stephenson and Sier are totally uncertain. Pendlebury is in decline and will only find a place on the wing. Mihocek is a huge chance to leave, and De Goey is way too unreliable. Grundy i Think will be okay, assuming he’s injurd.

so, I’m thinking this was our last year in the window.

so much talent has gone missing too: sharenberg, Broomhead, Stephenson, Hoskin-Elliot. What happened to them? Has to be on the coaches.

 

[Run n Spread]

Hard to get a read on. Pre season they were primed and looked good. Along with GWS struggled with the lay off and lost consistency. Were consistent in inconsistencies.
Play like a million bucks v Geelong but lose to wce. Took it up to port and lions and Richmond but lose to Freo and Essendon and struggled against Sydney.
Then great final win vs last night.
I think a lot of issues are game plan based. Too slow moving the ball forward and short kicking means teams too easily set up a zone.
Massive issues with the forward line. Just don't score. But game plan relies on midfield dominance but we're too reliant on Sidebottom and Pendlebury. So that gets shut down and delivery forward suffers.
Hard to know where this ends up. Still have the list imo but need to be strategic in how they manage from here and who is traded.
Really over possess it for no reward.

 

[domin8tors]

Yeah, appreciate the thoughts but there are too many maybes in there for me.

Langdon is done, I’d say. So too Mayne, but for different reasons.

stephenson and Sier are totally uncertain. Pendlebury is in decline and will only find a place on the wing. Mihocek is a huge chance to leave, and De Goey is way too unreliable. Grundy i Think will be okay, assuming he’s injurd.

so, I’m thinking this was our last year in the window.

so much talent has gone missing too: sharenberg, Broomhead, Stephenson, Hoskin-Elliot. What happened to them? Has to be on the coaches.

Sharenberg and broomhead just both have had horific injuries. Stepheson. IDK i believe he had glandular fever and if i remember pendles had this in his 1st year and was rubbish. so i'd cut him some slack. and Hosking elliott i'd trde. he and stephenson are too similiar.