Opinion Malaise and Mediocrity.

[Landgraft]

You actually answered the question yourself.

It all depends where you think the Geelong list it at.

The people who don't love the trade most likely think we sit somewhere in the 7-12 range I do anyway. So if that was to eventuate and we didn't win a final i wouldn't look very favourably on it I'm open to the possibility it would be a success if we were to win a final you could tick it off.

Ray you gotta learn to economize, this was pretty much all you needed to say.

Personally I don't agree with you, hence the point of difference. But I don't think in general that list management should be anything but positive. And honestly the competition is so weak that we are a chance to finish anywhere. Even top of the ladder.

You don't want to take the risk and I do understand why. If we crash down to 12th then I will agree Tuohy cost us that much. But regardless of the teams we play I'm not about to start resigning on this year, every team has proven it's capacity to play like dog s**t so there are no 0% games or 100% games. We'll see where the chips fall.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Definitely we must turn around form and effort or we won't beat anyone. Couple of things go in our favour though. Firstly the 7 games at simonds if you watched the last 3 teams have been hurting us by switching from one side of the ground to the other at HB then quickly going back through the space that opens up in the middle. They cant do that anywhere near as easily at simonds due to the narrow ground so we can protect our lack of speed better. Clubs will only get quick entries through the middle if they dominate us at centre clearances and thats the one thing we are still doing well atm. So we may well win most of the simonds games we play it better than the G.

The other thing is because the comp is even and weak this year i can easily see 14-15 wins getting a top 4 spot (with decent %) unlike the 16-18 needed in previous years. So if we can win all 7 of the simonds games we probably only need to win the brisbane hawthorn (they are the one team that cant expose us for legspeed as they are slow) and either the carlton or collingwood game and we should get top 4.

Its ironic that after 3 losses we are still only one game off top spot which says more about the ordinary standard of the comp than anything good about us but we are not far off.

I can't disagree with any of that the ground dynamics and home crowd tend to work wonders.

I think your right on the ladder scenario too I don't think you will need as many wins as previous to sneak into 3rd or 4th with evenness of the comp currently I don't even know who is the no.1 team formlines are erratic and seem worthless at this point wouldn't even bother.

The only problem I worry about this season is leaving out form line we are going to hit some very talented sides on our home deck. realistically I was thinking 4-3 would be passable 5-2 would be a stellar effort.

Dogs, port, Adelaide, freo, gws, Richmond and Sydney. So if we went 7-7 at home would be an incredible effort.

Knock off hawthorn, Brisbane, Carlton and hopefully pies at the G and your around the money.

But if we turn up and play anywhere near our last 3 weeks against dogs, Adelaide, port and west coast in Perth is such a tough toad trip I don't really expect us to win that one the bye for preparation hopefully helps. We could drop 7 in a row on current form we have completely lost our confidence and hopefully the home deck gives us a lift.

I think danger and selwood injury niggles hampered their output recently so an extra week of rehab and Henderson back we carry on the last qtr form of essendon game. Dogs have a lot of injuries need to capitalise on our next four and splitting these next four 2-2 in min requirement. Because we could also find ourselves outside the 8 this week if results go against us.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Ray you gotta learn to economize, this was pretty much all you needed to say.

Personally I don't agree with you, hence the point of difference. But I don't think in general that list management should be anything but positive. And honestly the competition is so weak that we are a chance to finish anywhere. Even top of the ladder.

You don't want to take the risk and I do understand why. If we crash down to 12th then I will agree Tuohy cost us that much. But regardless of the teams we play I'm not about to start resigning on this year, every team has proven it's capacity to play like dog s**t so there are no 0% games or 100% games. We'll see where the chips fall.

Yeah don't agree
Competition isn't weak I couple of the heavyweight sides have been decimated by injuries. Sydney, WB, GWS casualty ward and Adelaide I picked for top 4 pre season are still a bit patchy in the midfield.

No one is throwing the season away yet but the next four weeks will define our season simple as that. If we don't turn the form around right now we will be cooked

 

[Landgraft]

Yeah don't agree
Competition isn't weak I couple of the heavyweight sides have been decimated by injuries. Sydney, WB, GWS casualty ward and Adelaide I picked for top 4 pre season are still a bit patchy in the midfield.

No one is throwing the season away yet but the next four weeks will define our season simple as that. If we don't turn the form around right now we will be cooked

Sydney the Doggos and GWS can't just blame their problems on injury. They've all had players that they rely on underperform, especially the once vaunted Sydney midfield.

The Doggos are interesting, almost a better incarnation of Ross Lyons philosophies in that they strangle the game and then flick it out with elite hand skills in close. But they have a pretty uninspiring batch of KPP, and some of their performances have been big ordinary.

The Crows are basically where I expected them to be, albeit the weakness of other sides helped them. Beat up on sides once they get the upper hand, it would be incredible for their style to hold up in September.

Nobody would disagree with you on the last point, though. Geelong fail to change course and you'll be vindicated.

 

[cynical]

Tuohy was a terrible trade. The only reason you would give up a future first rounder would be if you thought we were a legitimate chance of a flag this year or next which we arent.

Our season is finished we are no chance of winning the flag this year. We cant win finals, we dont have the intensity to play high level football and we cant win at the MCG. We have been poor in 5 out of 8 games and played 1 top 8 side.

Our list just doesnt come close to the top sides.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Sydney the Doggos and GWS can't just blame their problems on injury. They've all had players that they rely on underperform, especially the once vaunted Sydney midfield.

The Doggos are interesting, almost a better incarnation of Ross Lyons philosophies in that they strangle the game and then flick it out with elite hand skills in close. But they have a pretty uninspiring batch of KPP, and some of their performances have been big ordinary.

The Crows are basically where I expected them to be, albeit the weakness of other sides helped them. Beat up on sides once they get the upper hand, it would be incredible for their style to hold up in September.

Nobody would disagree with you on the last point, though. Geelong fail to change course and you'll be vindicated.

But it has a flow on effect on performance and output getting your best players on the park. If you don't think injuries make a difference I have no comment.

The dogs and gws handle it better because they have a deeper list than Sydney. There 20-40 guys are at a better level. Sydney's best 22 is very good but they fall away. It's only a piece of the puzzle but it's pretty important having your best players playing dogs have been missing 6-8 best 22 all season.

When we are talking about being a good consistent team you need your best players on the park.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-11/prelim-final-trio-feeling-the-most-injury-pain

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/cou...g/news-story/52cdac4a138c47bff1638ed75343c0c8

It's fair to say I don't agree with any of that so let's just leave it be opinions are too different.

I won't be vindicated at all I still picked us in the 8 and thought we would sneak into finals before the season so I would be wrong still.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Tuohy was a terrible trade. The only reason you would give up a future first rounder would be if you thought we were a legitimate chance of a flag this year or next which we arent.

Our season is finished we are no chance of winning the flag this year. We cant win finals, we dont have the intensity to play high level football and we cant win at the MCG. We have been poor in 5 out of 8 games and played 1 top 8 side.

Our list just doesnt come close to the top sides.

I cut club slack on this because they would have genuinely thought by finishing top4 last year they needed just a few tweaks to challenge.

Also we have best player in competition - in a way we are duty bound to have a real crack at winning a flag.

But i agree with you that this last month has shown us as a middling 6th-10th side. No excuses end of year to again trade away future draft picks

 

[Landgraft]

But it has a flow on effect on performance and output getting your best players on the park. If you don't think injuries make a difference I have no comment.

The dogs and gws handle it better because they have a deeper list than Sydney. There 20-40 guys are at a better level. Sydney's best 22 is very good but they fall away. It's only a piece of the puzzle but it's pretty important having your best players playing dogs have been missing 6-8 best 22 all season.

When we are talking about being a good consistent team you need your best players on the park.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-11/prelim-final-trio-feeling-the-most-injury-pain

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/cou...g/news-story/52cdac4a138c47bff1638ed75343c0c8

It's fair to say I don't agree with any of that so let's just leave it be opinions are too different.

I won't be vindicated at all I still picked us in the 8 and thought we would sneak into finals before the season so I would be wrong still.

Of course injuries make a difference - but this applies to us as well. We're severely lacking in forward pressure because our three best pressure forwards are on the injury list. I won't, however, allow that to be too much of a defence - its understandable, but it also means that these teams aren't as invincible as some teams in previous years have looked because they're always going to be walking on the precipice.

GWS list is utterly ridiculous. If they were probably any other team than they would romp to a flag and logically they should. But it seems like they're lacking a hard edge, instead being a bit overly cocky. And their list has been raided every single off-season, to the point that they've tried to add guys with Mzungu and run out 25 year old debutants from state leagues - things that people condemn us for.

I don't think it's really a case of wrong/right at this stage. So much depends on where teams finish at the end of the year and the form they're able to find. Currently we're just reaching out in the dark, trying to use the knowledge of what we just passed to guess at what will come. But no-one really knows, no matter what you use as a reference.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Of course injuries make a difference - but this applies to us as well. We're severely lacking in forward pressure because our three best pressure forwards are on the injury list. I won't, however, allow that to be too much of a defence - its understandable, but it also means that these teams aren't as invincible as some teams in previous years have looked because they're always going to be walking on the precipice.

GWS list is utterly ridiculous. If they were probably any other team than they would romp to a flag and logically they should. But it seems like they're lacking a hard edge, instead being a bit overly cocky. And their list has been raided every single off-season, to the point that they've tried to add guys with Mzungu and run out 25 year old debutants from state leagues - things that people condemn us for.

I don't think it's really a case of wrong/right at this stage. So much depends on where teams finish at the end of the year and the form they're able to find. Currently we're just reaching out in the dark, trying to use the knowledge of what we just passed to guess at what will come. But no-one really knows, no matter what you use as a reference.

Reference was an injury list to show injuries and emphasise how do you judge a team nowhere near full strength not a reference to anything else or prediction.

So the last paragraph summed it up perfectly really

It's round 9 so when you say invincible as the past we need more football to judge that as generally the 2nd half of the year reveals the strong teams and it's possible we have 1-3 really strong teams time will tell

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I thought the Footy Classified reporters really put the hard questions tonight to Chris Scott and his usual bullshit responses broke down under a bit of scrutiny, only problem is they didn't really push him with many follow up questions so he got away with it in the end. But judging by his responses, don't expect too much to change next week. They're working hard (according to CS) on what they need to get right in what they're trying to do. CS speak to mean we're sticking with the same s**t that's made us play bad for the last 3 weeks. Oh well, only have to put up with another 2.5 years of this. Go Catters.

 

[Ray Donovan]

I thought the Footy Classified reporters really put the hard questions tonight to Chris Scott and his usual bullshit responses broke down under a bit of scrutiny, only problem is they didn't really push him with many follow up questions so he got away with it in the end. But judging by his responses, don't expect too much to change next week. They're working hard (according to CS) on what they need to get right in what they're trying to do. CS speak to mean we're sticking with the same s**t that's made us play bad for the last 3 weeks. Oh well, only have to put up with another 2.5 years of this. Go Catters.

#don't throw the baby out with the bathwater"

 

[Desslok]

I thought the Footy Classified reporters really put the hard questions tonight to Chris Scott and his usual bullshit responses broke down under a bit of scrutiny, only problem is they didn't really push him with many follow up questions so he got away with it in the end. But judging by his responses, don't expect too much to change next week. They're working hard (according to CS) on what they need to get right in what they're trying to do. CS speak to mean we're sticking with the same s**t that's made us play bad for the last 3 weeks. Oh well, only have to put up with another 2.5 years of this. Go Catters.

It really was quite obvious on Footy Classified that Chris Scotts demeanour changed dramatically when the panel began questioning him about Gary's potential return. Some may think it was prearranged that they'd hit him with some actual journalism based upon his teams performance so far this year then devote the rest of the interview with gary ablett romanticism. Golden opportunity to question a coach whos gameplan has been dissected by opposition coaches and exploited .. showing his reluctance to change.

 

[catempire]

I thought the Footy Classified reporters really put the hard questions tonight to Chris Scott and his usual bullshit responses broke down under a bit of scrutiny, only problem is they didn't really push him with many follow up questions so he got away with it in the end. But judging by his responses, don't expect too much to change next week. They're working hard (according to CS) on what they need to get right in what they're trying to do. CS speak to mean we're sticking with the same s**t that's made us play bad for the last 3 weeks. Oh well, only have to put up with another 2.5 years of this. Go Catters.

Live by the sword etc.

 

[Seeds]

I cut club slack on this because they would have genuinely thought by finishing top4 last year they needed just a few tweaks to challenge.

Also we have best player in competition - in a way we are duty bound to have a real crack at winning a flag.

But i agree with you that this last month has shown us as a middling 6th-10th side. No excuses end of year to again trade away future draft picks

Ah we are using the Richmond excuse now. Classic.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Ah we are using the Richmond excuse now. Classic.

Whats that?

 

[Ray Donovan]

Ah we are using the Richmond excuse now. Classic.

Like clock work give it 3-4 weeks kingy and the media will be dissecting the Geelong list and our mature age recruit direction eg. Ruggles, abbott, house, Stewart, black. Going through our middle tier. Murdoch, cowan and co.

And completely backflip from when we belted hawthorn talking about transition of list.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Ah we are using the Richmond excuse now. Classic.

It's not really relevant to Geelong yet I think he is going back to when Richmond used their rookie list for mature age players and "classified it as injury replacement players"

They topped up an ordinary list scenario (debate) as well with a few mature recruits when they thought they were close.

 

[Seeds]

Whats that?

It's doesn't matter whether we are actually good enough to win a flag that justifies whether the decision not to rebuild is the right one. It just matters how good we think we are.

 

[Gavin Excell]

It's doesn't matter whether we are actually good enough to win a flag that justifies whether the decision not to rebuild is the right one. It just matters how good we think we are.

Ok i see

 

[zb14]

And there you have it.. I'll let others go back and read my opening post if they choose, and given tonight especially, the bit on Chris Scott. But I'll best describe tonight in the same insightful way many responded to my OP. tl; lol.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

And there you have it.. I'll let others go back and read my opening post if they choose, and given tonight especially, the bit on Chris Scott. But I'll best describe tonight in the same insightful way many responded to my OP. tl; lol.

Yep I called in round 2 after we played the Kangas that we couldn't win the flag. It's the same old s**t! This is a disgrace!

 

[Pollywaffle]

The corporates will still come out and say we had a 'successful' year finishing second...Never really a serious threat though. There will be internal backslapping and some cosmetic changes. Groundhog Day again..

 

[zb14]

Yep I called in round 2 after we played the Kangas that we couldn't win the flag. It's the same old s**t! This is a disgrace!

You know, I could almost live with embarrassing finals capitulations if we actually tried to play football. But watching this team the last few seasons is how it must've been to watch Rossy Lyon's "contending teams", just with less finals wins.

 

[catempire]

Plenty of other places to comment on the loss and coach. We're done here.