Malcolm Turnbull - How long?

[Fire]

His comments come as the latest Guardian Essential poll says 38% of people disapprove of the deal between the Liberal party and One Nation in WA, while 29% approve. But, among Liberal voters, 43% approved of the arrangement and 25% disapproved.

Liberal voters opinions are utterly irrelevant. It's a preference deal designed to net them preferences from other voters, so their opinions aren't of interest whatsoever.

It's the most baffling and irrelevant 'But' I have ever seen attached to the end of a paragraph.

 

[Maggie5]

Liberal voters opinions are utterly irrelevant. It's a preference deal designed to net them preferences from other voters, so their opinions aren't of interest whatsoever.

It's the most baffling and irrelevant 'But' I have ever seen attached to the end of a paragraph.

Which other voters?
Don't understand your post. Are you saying Liberal voters will not give ON their preference?

 

[Fire]

Which other voters?
Don't understand your post. Are you saying Liberal voters will not give ON their preference?

No.

Im saying that a preference deal is designed to maximise Liberal performance. So the opinion of those who are voting liberal anyway are completely irrelevant to them.

Every liberal voter could love the preference deal; but that wont influence their tally by even one vote. They voted liberal. Their vote is already parked. Similar if they all hated it. Their opinion literally means nothing here.

What matters is the opinion of those not voting liberal. If voters from every other party hated the preference deal, then it is going to negatively impact their view of the party. Undecided voters less likely to vote for them, and third party voters less likely to preference them higher than their competitors. These are the voters the liberals are targeting with any preference deal, and it is exclusively their opinion which matters.

So I'm baffled as to why the journalist would undercut their own article by ending it with a contrary, but entirely irrelevant statistic.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Which other voters?
Don't understand your post. Are you saying Liberal voters will not give ON their preference?

Individual liberal voters with a brain can disregard how to vote cards. So keep their conscience clean while still having one nation preference liberals. Win win

 

[Fire]

Individual liberal voters with a brain can disregard how to vote cards. So keep their conscience clean while still having one nation preference liberals. Win win

If that's the way it worked in practice, then the only deals done for preferences would be in the Senate.

There's a reason why parties invest so much time, money and capital into working out and distributing HOR HTV cards, and its not because people ignore them.

 

[Crankyhawk]

If that's the way it worked in practice, then the only deals done for preferences would be in the Senate.

There's a reason why parties invest so much time, money and capital into working out and distributing HOR HTV cards, and its not because people ignore them.

Never followed a HTV card in my life. There's no reason to as an individual it is incomprehensible to do so.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

No. He is saying that if Unions can fund Labor for millions, then the Liberal Party is at a major disadvantage combating this if they cannot receive any funding. If the ALP receives $50m for election advertising and the Libs get $20m, it is hard for the Libs to compete on equal footing.

There was an article on this issue recently

Traditionally thr libs have been a financial powerhouse, fueled by donations from the corporate sector and wealthy individuals. They are taking hits on both.

Corps are less willing to be publicly seen as endorsing one party anymore, because of the publicity backlash it can generate. Also large political donations are currently unpopular with mum and dad investors of listed companies (which can lead to awkward agms)

Many used to simply pay both, either equally or with only a slight premium to one. Now many are walking 100%, as they dont see the bang for the buck anymore (hard to disagree with that for both parties right now)

On wealthy donors, lots of games at play here. Power plays for control of the vic party for instance is seeing donations withheld until their man is appointed

 

[Fire]

Never followed a HTV card in my life. There's no reason to as an individual it is incomprehensible to do so.

Neither have I, and I agree.

But that wasn't my point. Many people do.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Neither have I, and I agree.

But that wasn't my point. Many people do.

I'd be interested to see if such stats exist (probably would be an election behind) - more likely to get from minor parties because their votes being redistributed for preferences

 

[Fire]

I'd be interested to see if such stats exist (probably would be an election behind) - more likely to get from minor parties because their votes being redistributed for preferences

As would I!

But I imagine that third party preferences would follow the card less as voting third party implies a degree of political engagement; whereas the majors would have a lot of people who dont give a * but vote Lab/Lib because thats what their dad did. These people would be far more likely to follow the card.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Penalty rates cut. He is done.

 

[JackOutback]

Penalty rates cut. He is done.

The message is simple; tax cuts for big business, pay cuts for working class. This is the end.

 

[John Bonney]

Beware the Ides of March

 

[DaRick]

Although cutting penalty rates is a stupid thing to do when your economy as anemic as ours is ATM, I still don't think this move will hurt Turnbull quite as badly politically as cutting pensions, since many people relying on penalty rates don't vote for the LNP anyway. Even the Centrelink robo-debt debacle affected more LNP voters, albeit often indirectly.

This will change if cutting penalty rates actually brings on a recession of course.

 

[JackOutback]

Although cutting penalty rates is a stupid thing to do when your economy as anemic as ours is ATM, I still don't think this move will hurt Turnbull quite as badly politically as cutting pensions, since many people relying on penalty rates don't vote for the LNP anyway. Even the Centrelink robo-debt debacle affected more LNP voters, albeit often indirectly.

This will change if cutting penalty rates actually brings on a recession of course.

It's true that cutting pensions affects traditional Liberal voters more than cuts to penalty rates but that's not to say there will be no effect. Sure, fast food and hospitality is the domain of the young, but retail often attracts older women who may be supplementing their husband's income. My mother-in-law works retail and the combined salary with her husband plus the value of their home (all paid off) puts them comfortably into middle class/upper middle class. They could be Liberal voters but won't be after a decision like this.

 

[DaRick]

It's true that cutting pensions affects traditional Liberal voters more than cuts to penalty rates but that's not to say there will be no effect. Sure, fast food and hospitality is the domain of the young, but retail often attracts older women who may be supplementing their husband's income. My mother-in-law works retail and the combined salary with her husband plus the value of their home (all paid off) puts them comfortably into middle class/upper middle class. They could be Liberal voters but won't be after a decision like this.

I have no reason to doubt what you say, but I was also wrong for another reason.

Where penalty rate cuts affect the young, they may also affect their parents indirectly, since young people increasingly still live with their parents. Their parents are much more likely to be LNP voters.

A personal anecdote of my own relating to what you said about your family - all four of us in my family voted for Howard's LNP in 2007 because it seemed like he was doing a relatively good job (though I recognise with hindsight that this was less due to his economic prescriptions and more due to a stronger global economy).

9 years later, neither my brother nor myself voted for Turnbull's LNP (instead for Labor/Greens) and my mother has said that she will not vote for the LNP in the next election because the Centrelink robo-debt mess and the pension cuts have both directly affected us.

 

[pazza]

Who are the pink bits?

 

[Pie eyed]

Labor obviously the most representative of actual society if you admit that people are members of unions.

 

[Pie eyed]

Who are the pink bits?

Donations made from one party member to another to bankroll court cases against a third...eg Abbott to bankroll court action and prison time for Hanson?
Or under the table payments to others to finger yet others etc...James Ashby
Should be listed as ethical payments.....LOL

 

[NSWCROW]

Donations made from one party member to another to bankroll court cases against a third...eg Abbott to bankroll court action and prison time for Hanson?
Or under the table payments to others to finger yet others etc...James Ashby
Should be listed as ethical payments.....LOL

Careful saying " Fingers " and " Ashby " in the same sentence lol

God what a worm he is

 

[NSWCROW]

Not my words but this is brilliant


Politicide

It was only for two years, that the Thug was in the job
In that short time, he proved to be, a hopeless lying nob
Was not just him, cos in this crew, the talent is so sparse
It was always going to be one enormous sorry farce

It's no surprise, that Abbott was a monumental fail
But who'd have thought, how quickly, it would all start to derail
I guess if you've no policies, and only can oppose
It isn't any wonder, he went quickly on the nose

When asked about his policies, he had not much to say
That's because, he'd outsourced them, all to the I. P. A.
He didn't keep his promises, it turned out that he lied
He kept on blaming Labor, and the lying he denied

He got no help from Smokin Joe, whose budget went too far
While Joe and pal Mathias, smoked a great big fat cigar
While Brandis in the Senate, said that "Bigots do have rights"
The Thug announced, he would restore, archaic Dames and Knights

Pensioners, the unemployed, the students and the sick
All were helpless targets, of this useless lying prick
If not for the senate, they would surely have been screwed
Their budget based on lies, made sure, a poll decline ensued

The backbench got so nervous, with a feeling of despair
The Thug survived a challenge, up against an empty chair
He promised he would listen and would stop his captains picks
But six months on, not much had changed, he still played dirty tricks

All the Thug's decisions, took them further up s**t creek
From equal rights, to climate change, he kept a losing streak
His Captain's calls kept coming back, to bite him on the bum
The public had concluded, he's deluded and quite dumb

The government was in limbo land, the party paralysed
Their only hope was Turnbull, who the right wing just despised
While Abbott's only focus, was on how to save his hide
Turnbull and his plotters planned the Thug's politicide

Turnbull advanced with the numbers on his side
To everyone's relief, they removed the Thug who lied
For a while it worked quite well, their polling headed north
The public were quite smitten, with the w***er from Wentworth

But Turnbull's coup had come, with a saddle bag of bricks
The snake oil man was haunted, by a bunch of right wing pricks
Turnbull had agreed to many things he'd once condemned
It wasn't long, till cracks appeared, the honeymoon would end

Turnbull talked in circles and his capital was spent
And Abbott and his acolytes, kept pissing in the tent
Shorten started scoring and Labor set the pace
The polls began to tumble, the lead all but erased

The Thug was out to seek revenge, he channeled Kevin Rudd
He would not rest, until he'd seen, the sight of Turnbull's blood
As always, the deluded thug, had a destructive disposition
And like a suicide bomber, he'd soon blow up, the coalition

 

[Bomberboyokay]

 

[GreyCrow]

The silly thing , to me, is that its a neither here nor there cut.

Nobody will win from this. It actually smells like a wedge to the ALP to me. Its not enough to get everyone up in arms and it doesn't do anything for employers.

 

[Gough]

Abbott should remember the Liberal Party has never been expressly conservative, and certainly not his brand of conservatism. He's attempting to rewrite history a bit here.

 

[NSWCROW]

Abbott should remember the Liberal Party has never been expressly conservative, and certainly not his brand of conservatism. He's attempting to rewrite history a bit here.

DT had him front page AMAZINGLY...........................................................................................and when i say amazingly i mean - * OFF
Attacked Rudd for white-anting , biggest ant of the lot !!!!!

He's scum
Filth

A COWARD