Opinion Managing older players?

[cecil]

There has been a bit of discussion of late about us resting some of our older players in order to give some kids more games.

Should we do this? Specifically against GWS this week?

Personally, I think we should do it.
My idea is as follows:

Have Minson play 18 games for the year:
It looks like we will be going in with 3 rucks for the year. So this gives some games to Campbell and possibly Hill. It is pretty safe to say that both Roughy and Cordy will also miss around 4 games or so each as well, so this would be 12 games to share between Campbell (elevation pending) and Hill. This means that by the end of the year we should have had enough of a look at Hill and Campbell to make a call on our ruck stocks next year. If they do okay, anf Roughy and Cordy continue on, I think we would look at trading Minson to get another pick in the 30-50 range in this years draft. This could be done against teams like GC and PA whom don't have a decent experienced ruckman.

Have Cooney only play 16-18 games:
He obviously wont be able to play every game, so this seems a given. By giving him periodic rests it allows him to freshen up, and gives some of our outside midfielders a bit more chance. This means 4-6 extra games in to the likes of Tutt, Moles, and possibly even Johannisen (elevation pending). I would supplement this by giving Griffen a couple of games off, although this wouldn't be essential.

Rest Gia for at least 2-3 games:
I am far from a Gia hater, but he does seem to be out of form this year. But this would give more opportunity to Hooper and maybe even having Cooney/Higgins/Sherman play forward more, allowing another young midfielder to play.

Rest Boyd (2 games) and Cross (4 games):
Probably the most obvious one. It will be hard to have these two, Libba, Wallis and Picken all in the same team. So this would have 6 games in which all the kids get a go. These games off could be increased next year.

Rest Hargrave and Lake:
This would depend on when Morris and Williams get back into the team. But by giving these guys at least 2 more games off each it will allow us to assess Austin and see if he is worth promoting or re-rookie listing. If Williams and Morris come back early, I would give Hargrave more games off to give Howard some more games. But I am of the view that Hargrave is in his last year anyway.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Royale]

My opinion. What exactly are we resting players for? We won't play finals this year. But we still need to salvage something of our pride. If players are in form then they play. Can you imagine if we "rest" players and lose to GWS? We will be a laughing stock. Having said that some senior players may need a run in the twos to find form.

 

[gs17]

No, manage younger players and manage players with injuries better than we have in the past.

 

[inyourfacedunk]

My opinion only obviously.

The only players that need resting are the young kids who haven't built up the tank for the positions they play. e.g. Libba and Smith. Maybe even Dalhaus later in the year. And players with injuries.

Minson needs to ruck all year. He is the number 1 ruck and will be for a few years yet.

I wouldn't be resting Cooney just yet. He said himself his knee is feeling good and he is only catching up on match fitness at the moment. Maybe if his knee starts to get a bit tender would I bother resting him. He needs to be out there to show the young kids how to attack the ball and setting the example.

Anyone else would be "rested". As in go back to VFL to find form.

Resting the older guys just because they are older won't do much other than hinder the teams performance (as well as development. Just look at Melbourne). They are the ones who have the fitness to run out games week in week out.

 

[StringyDog]

Have Minson play 18 games for the year:
It looks like we will be going in with 3 rucks for the year. So this gives some games to Campbell and possibly Hill. It is pretty safe to say that both Roughy and Cordy will also miss around 4 games or so each as well, so this would be 12 games to share between Campbell (elevation pending) and Hill. This means that by the end of the year we should have had enough of a look at Hill and Campbell to make a call on our ruck stocks next year. If they do okay, anf Roughy and Cordy continue on, I think we would look at trading Minson to get another pick in the 30-50 range in this years draft. This could be done against teams like GC and PA whom don't have a decent experienced ruckman.

Have Cooney only play 16-18 games:
He obviously wont be able to play every game, so this seems a given. By giving him periodic rests it allows him to freshen up, and gives some of our outside midfielders a bit more chance. This means 4-6 extra games in to the likes of Tutt, Moles, and possibly even Johannisen (elevation pending). I would supplement this by giving Griffen a couple of games off, although this wouldn't be essential.

Rest Gia for at least 2-3 games:
I am far from a Gia hater, but he does seem to be out of form this year. But this would give more opportunity to Hooper and maybe even having Cooney/Higgins/Sherman play forward more, allowing another young midfielder to play.

Rest Boyd (2 games) and Cross (4 games):
Probably the most obvious one. It will be hard to have these two, Libba, Wallis and Picken all in the same team. So this would have 6 games in which all the kids get a go. These games off could be increased next year.

Rest Hargrave and Lake:
This would depend on when Morris and Williams get back into the team. But by giving these guys at least 2 more games off each it will allow us to assess Austin and see if he is worth promoting or re-rookie listing. If Williams and Morris come back early, I would give Hargrave more games off to give Howard some more games. But I am of the view that Hargrave is in his last year anyway.

What are your thoughts?

1) Minson is very important as none of our other ruckman are anywhere near ready to #1 ruck, and secondly Minson is a free agent this year so he can simply walk to club if he wants to leave, no trade, must sign him up soon.

2) Later in year maybe, at moment Cooney needs game to build fitness as he missed so much, now is not the time to rest , second half of year maybe.

3) Gia is no doubt out of form but there is no forwards putting any real pressure at moment, unless Skinner/Hooper etc can put multiple decent games together

4) Boyd and Cross do not need rest they are the fittest two guys at the club and Libba,Picken and Wallis are already playing in team, would rather rotate between 2 of Libba,Wallis and Smith.

5) Our backline is too s**t to rest Lake.

 

[cecil]

I don't mean rest as in they are tired.
More as in a rotation to give some games to kids who otherwise would be on the fringe. I just can't see guys like Tutt, Cordy, Howard etc. getting more than half a dozen games otherwise.
Poor choice of word sorry.

 

[d0gs]

The only time older players should be managed is if they are injured. If they are regularly in and out of the first team it will only take a lot longer to string any decent form together.

No way would I trade Minson, we lost our number 1 ruckman in Hudson, so its just stupid to get rid of another. Especially if its for a draft pick (which will not be high at all).

Only time I would change the back line is when Morris and hopefully Williams come back into the side later on in the season. You would rather have a very solid back 6 rather than one that is constantly changing. There will be very little chemistry between the players.

With Gia, well I just do not know what to do with the bloke at the moment, I would keep him in the VFL until he kicks a few bags in a row (1-2 goals a game doesn't classify as a "bag" either) and play Tom Hill who has had a great run in the previous weeks.

Players just cannot get games on their name and what they did in the past, just like what Gia is doing at the present time.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

To the OP: as far as I am aware, Hill is a KP not a ruckman, and trading Minson while Cordy and Roughy are still raw is madness. He is a 100plus games of experience, not something to replace with another young ruck.

 

[scooter600x]

You want to tank is what you are saying.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Agree with Scooter, it's tanking and I don't want to do it. Cooney should be managed with his knee but resting guys like Boyd and Griffen is purely trying to lose

 

[tonydean]

Good clubs rest/know how to manage players. We're not one of those clubs

 

[TempleKelvington]

We should be managing the playing load of all the players. But I don't agree with resting players for the sake of it. Cooney will get a rest if and when he starts feeling sore I'd imagine. I doubt they will pre-empt this. Don't play injured or out of form players.

I want the kids to be getting games, but they need to be contributing to be given the games. I would only drop players who are not playing well and not because they are older and we need to find a spot for a kid. But we do need to give the kids games, especially the young talls.
We need to pick our best side each week at this time of year. Winning is the aim, not playing for draft picks. All for managing players loads but I hope we don’t do it to contrive a result.

 

[dogzrule]

Get as many games into Cordy, Dahl, Wallis, Libba, Tutt, Howard regardless of form (to a degree). If this means resting older players to fit them in then so be it

 

[josh the gent]

FWIW, I think tanking actually has a pretty bad effect on the club if you are not winning when you are good enough.

Players should be giving their all week in, week out, otherwise the precious games experience ain't worth s**t!!

That said, choosing when to 'rest' players is something that should be considered.

Cooney himself has admitted that his knee will never fully recover, so why ask him to play against GWS if we will beat them regardless?

I would rest Cooney at a minimum this week - it's similar to giving him a bye.

I'd do the same for any other players carrying knocks, and consider resting a couple too.

This week is a golden chance to get some experience into younger players, as we should win regardless of who we put out there.

This strategy is fine as long as a winning result is not compromised.

 

[Morris Major]

I'd be more concerned about how these older players help develop the newbies

 

[lachy]

Considering we had out of our team on Sunday Libba, Smith, Tutt and Markovic as well as other young players such as Panos, Hill, Skinner and so onwe still had 7 players with less than 20 games and 10 with less than 50.

We are a developing team. We will not be winning a premiership this year or next. We need to get 50 plus games into those younger players who we see as being part of our next genuine attempt at a flag asap. Against that their younger bodies cannot handle a 22 game load.

Therefore, far from resting the older players they need to play every game they can to assist with the development of the younger players. Cross is not keeping someone out, he is protecting those in and teaching the younger players about effort, dedication and hard ball gets. Will he be part of our next push, no but he plays an impotant role. As metioned in another threat so does Will. Seriously if he is our number 1 ruckman we are in trouble. But for the next couple of development years you could not get a better role model for 100% effort.

We only ever rest an older player the next 2 years if they are injured and we drop them IF their from warrants it AND a younger player is deserving the position. We really don't have alot of experience on the list and as Gold Coast, GWS and now Melbourne will show, lack of experienced bodies and only playing the kids actually stunts their development.

 

[dogwatch]

Nobody rests players any more.

They develop "soreness".

 

[Spectre]

Nobody rests players any more.

They develop "soreness".

Don't like the euphemistic nature of it myself. Just another way they are sanitising the game, castrating it of any truth or emotion. If a player is out of form, omit him for being out of form. Most professional athletes play 'sore', so the term is disingenuous as well.

 

[TempleKelvington]

I said during the week that Gia looks tired, so perhaps he was sore afterall....carrying something. I suspect if it was purely just form then he'd be in the team this week with the view that he'll snap out of the slump or dropped to Willi to find his mojo.

The fact that he's been rested leads me to think he actually needs a spell. It is what it is.

No point resting Cooney if he's actually feeling tickety boo. Seems a bit strange to try rest someone who is actually fit. Soon as he feels a niggle or in need of a break, then spell him. Till then...Run Coons runs! Of course the other way to manage his work load is use him as sub...but again....not just for the sake of it please!