Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

Are you for or against Mandatory Vaccinations

  • For

    Votes: 278 60.0%
  • Against

    Votes: 189 40.8%

  • Total voters
    463

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Forward Press

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Saying whatever will happen will happen is all well and good until it’s someone you know that is getting subpar care because it all got too hard

If my mother who is immunocompromised but still took the vaccines and booster as soon as she was able to, is unable to receive treatment because some moronic anti-vaxxer is taking her spot in hospital, I will damn well be f***ing pissed. Lots of selfish campaigners in this thread.
 

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Crankyhawk

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Saying whatever will happen will happen is all well and good until it’s someone you know that is getting subpar care because it all got too hard
he has a point though; it has got to a point where I can't see anything that can reasonably be done having an impact on what is coming. Those attending ED in VIC are already receiving subpar care, with nurses now working 1:4 ratios, prolonged delays to ambulance offload..
 

kingswood71

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How do we know whether or not vaccinated people will still suffer long covid? We don't yet know that.
Given some of the evidence from long term studies on people who had SARS-CoV (the first one), I am happy to take my chances with the vaccine as opposed to risk long term effects from the virus and the viral treatment....
 

catscollector

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Given some of the evidence from long term studies on people who had SARS-CoV (the first one), I am happy to take my chances with the vaccine as opposed to risk long term effects from the virus and the viral treatment....

I am not arguing against what you say.
I am just saying we don't know what long term effects of mRNA vaccination could potentially have on our bodies in time. Odds are very likely nil.
 

Forward Press

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How do we know whether or not vaccinated people will still suffer long covid? We don't yet know that.

It's not a cogent argument against vaccination, though, because the disease it's fighting against is not much older than the virus itself.

We already have plenty of peer-reviewed evidence of 'long COVID', and plenty of peer-reviewed evidence (as if you needed it) of COVID itself. Logically, a reasoned person would take their chances on the vaccine and not on infection.
 

Profop

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he has a point though; it has got to a point where I can't see anything that can reasonably be done having an impact on what is coming. Those attending ED in VIC are already receiving subpar care, with nurses now working 1:4 ratios, prolonged delays to ambulance offload..
What we are doing now is having a positive impact. Dropping off will only make things worse and things can most certainly get worse we have already seen that in places like India
 

Lavender Bushranger

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Here's hoping all of us who were forced into taking the jab do not come down with any long term side effects.
Of course everyone hopes that. But to be frank, I'd imagine everyone expects that too.

I mean, what sort of side effects are there expected to be 2 years after getting an immune boosting vaccine?
 
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Lavender Bushranger

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I used to be very pro-vaccine throughout COVID and am double-vaccinated. It’s not that I no longer am, but I’m just over the whole thing. It’s clear that the federal and state governments here in Australia do not have the competency required to deal with the COVID pandemic whether it is their fault or not.

Also, Pfizer produced vaccines and the boss is now admitting that it is likely not that effective on Omicron.

The availability of RATs is a mess. The PCR testing is a mess. Contact tracing is a mess. Businesses are still being crippled financially because of this. The whole situation has turned into a mess.

Just take the L and move on. Whatever happens to our hospital system will happen. Whatever happens to us as individuals will happen. Whatever happens to our family will happen. We as a society just have to move on now and stop worrying about COVID mandates (e.g. vaccine, testing requirements, self-isolation requirements etc.) and handle it like we handle the flu and other viruses (e.g. optional COVID vaccines/booster shots + no fixed isolation requirements). Yes, COVID’s worse than the flu, but we obviously can’t stop it.

I’d rather everyone that’s symptomatic manage their symptoms at home like we did with other viruses in the past and go to the hospital when required. We’ll just have to learn from our incompetence this time around so that we can handle a spread of disease better next time there is a pandemic. We can also look at investing more resources into our health care systems instead of COVID tests so that we have more health care workers and facilities to deal with issues like this.

All I’m saying is that we’ve reached a time where we pull the plug on trying to fight what seems like a losing battle.
Part of me feels a bit like this.

Not in terms of 'I'm over it now so let's just quit the fight and go back to normal', as that's just infantile and suggests that there's a possibility that we could be close to normal without all these measures in place to this point.

But in terms of 'living with it', we have been haven't we? Aren't we pretty close to normal now?

The deadshits in government are tripping over themselves to work out the details of a few things, but largely we're back to normal aren't we?

Schools open, shops open, sport happening, gyms open, restaurants, bars etc. etc.

Once they sort out the deal with isolation and testing and sh*t, which shouldn't take them too long, we'll be as close to normal as we probably ever will be.

As for fighting a losing battle, I think that's open to debate. I'd argue we've won the battle. Or at least, are absolutely winning it.

It all depends on what the battle is. If it's to kill off COVID then yes, we failed miserably - but that was never the battle. That was never the intent.

The battle was to live with the virus, without completely rooting society. We've done that with flying colours. It's not quite over yet - but I see what we've achieved a nation, a state and as communities as extraordinary. Sure, there are things that with the benefit of hindsight could be done better, but all in all we've done an incredible job in dealing with a 1 in a 100 year global pandemic.



Taxi licensees copped it in the arse when Uber came along. Video shops died when Netflix arrived. Car makers were screwed when we stopped buying Fords.
Plenty of industries come and go as the world changes, and unfortunately this will happen as a result of COVID being on the planet.


I think this needs to be accepted to some degree.
 
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Lsta062

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Saying whatever will happen will happen is all well and good until it’s someone you know that is getting subpar care because it all got too hard
You don’t have to tell me. My dad already died because of COVID. He didn’t get hospital care because of the pressure on the hospital system.

Still, I’m saying that whatever will happen will happen because the reality of the situation we’re in is obvious now. It’s time to accept it and just learn from our mistakes to apply to the next pandemic.
 

Lsta062

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Part of me feels a bit like this.

Not in terms of 'I'm over it now so let's just quit the fight and go back to normal', as that's just infantile and suggests that there's a possibility that we could be close to normal without all these measures in place to this point.

But in terms of 'living with it', we have been haven't we? Aren't we pretty close to normal now?

The deadshits in government are tripping over themselves to work out the details of a few things, but largely we're back to normal aren't we?

Schools open, shops open, sport happening, gyms open, restaurants, bars etc. etc.

Once they sort out the deal with isolation and testing and sh*t, which shouldn't take them too long, we'll be as close to normal as we probably ever will be.

As for fighting a losing battle, I think that's open to debate. I'd argue we've won the battle. Or at least, are absolutely winning it.

It all depends on what the battle is. If it's to kill if COVID the yes, we failed miserably - but that was never the battle. That was never the intent.

The battle was to live with the virus, without completely rooting society. We've done that with flying colours. It's not quite over yet - but I see what we've achieved a nation, a state and as communities as extraordinary. Sure, there are things that with the benefit of hindsight could be done better, but all in all we've done an incredible job in dealing with a 1 in a 100 year global pandemic.



Taxi licensees copped it in the arse when Uber came along. Video shops died when Netflix arrived. Car makers were screwed when we stopped buying Fords.
Plenty of industries come and go as the world changes, and unfortunately this will happen as a result of COVID being on the planet.


I think this needs to be accepted to some degree.
I still think we’re pretty far from normal with these testing and isolation requirements. Definitely closer to normal than the lockdown days but I think we just need to let all the mandates go surrounding COVID and stop reporting case numbers. I’m still for developing vaccines against COVID and analysing samples collected. I’m also for wearing masks.

It’s just the mandates and the depressing statistics that I want gone. Whoever wants to get tested, wants to wear a mask, or get the vaccine can do so. If you’re symptomatic, then stay home like you normally do when you are ill with other viruses. I just don’t want to see our whole lives controlled by COVID any more than it already controls us through the illnesses it causes. Also, it’s almost like people use COVID to further their political views at this point. I’m just over it. It was handled badly so I just want all of us to move on with our lives (if we don’t die that is) and go back to how we dealt with viruses pre-COVID.
 

sr36

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Absolutely they are

Heart disease, cancer etc - all increased significantly by obesity
There's not a wave that will pass through resulting in a percentage of all fat people needing hospitalisation in a short period of time, thus stopping things like elective surgery and tying up paramedics so that more will die who need immediate intervention and resulting in reduced standards of care for all who are hospitalised.
 

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Roby

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I’m fully on board for a sugar tax personally

Unfortunately for COVID it doesn’t seem to have the lobbyists the fast food restaurants have

Also if you told me science had developed a safe injection that prevented me from getting fat I’d be all over it

Phentermine is very effective even if it's not a vaccine.
 

Roby

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It kinda is though....
This Danish study found "Furthermore, we show that fully vaccinated and booster-vaccinated individuals are generally less susceptible to infection compared to unvaccinated individuals. We also show that booster-vaccinated individuals generally had a reduced transmissibility (OR: 0.72, CI: 0.56-0.92), and that unvaccinated individuals had a higher transmissibility (OR: 1.41, CI: 1.27-1.57), compared to fully vaccinated individuals"
You asserted that vaccines have zero ability to reduce transmission, boosters do reduce transmission.....

We don't need studies, it's common sense. If you haven't worked out that the vaccine reduces transmission than you're beyond help inside a loony bin.

Just the same as masks.
 

Lavender Bushranger

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I still think we’re pretty far from normal with these testing and isolation requirements. Definitely closer to normal than the lockdown days but I think we just need to let all the mandates go surrounding COVID and stop reporting case numbers. I’m still for developing vaccines against COVID and analysing samples collected. I’m also for wearing masks.

It’s just the mandates and the depressing statistics that I want gone. Whoever wants to get tested, wants to wear a mask, or get the vaccine can do so. If you’re symptomatic, then stay home like you normally do when you are ill with other viruses. I just don’t want to see our whole lives controlled by COVID any more than it already controls us through the illnesses it causes. Also, it’s almost like people use COVID to further their political views at this point. I’m just over it. It was handled badly so I just want all of us to move on with our lives (if we don’t die that is) and go back to how we dealt with viruses pre-COVID.
I don't want to sound condescending here, but it sounds like you watch the news.

If so, that's the first thing I'd stop doing. I'd also steer clear of social media.

The world actually isn't that bad.


Funnily enough, I caught the Ch9 news a couple times last week as it came in straight after the cricket. OMG. No wonder people are ******* wigging out!!

What a disgrace the news is. It's shameful on us all as a society that the 'news' has such a huge nightly audience.
 

Roby

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How do we know whether or not vaccinated people will still suffer long covid? We don't yet know that.

They won't.

Today is the anniversary when we genomically sequenced the first strain of Sars-covid-2. People have been vaccinated for nearly two years. They are fine.
 

Roby

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I don't want to sound condescending here, but it sounds like you watch the news.

If so, that's the first thing I'd stop doing. I'd also steer clear of social media.

The world actually isn't that bad.


Funnily enough, I caught the Ch9 news a couple times last week as it came in straight after the cricket. OMG. No wonder people are ******* wigging out!!

What a disgrace the news is. It's shameful on us all as a society that the 'news' has such a huge nightly audience.

The MSM is the main problem when it comes to anti-vaxxism.

Sure anti-vaxxers end up in rabbit holes, but even those who aren't an anti vaxxer have had trepidation when it comes to the vaccine for due to the media reporting bullshit, ill-informed stories and biases about adverse events.
 

sr36

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They won't.

Today is the anniversary when we genomically sequenced the first strain of Sars-covid-2. People have been vaccinated for nearly two years. They are fine.
I think he meant: does the vaccine protect against long covid in breakthrough infections?
 

Crankyhawk

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Phentermine is very effective even if it's not a vaccine.
I believe there are significant side effects/ risks


pretty much like using amphetamines
 

Lsta062

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I don't want to sound condescending here, but it sounds like you watch the news.

If so, that's the first thing I'd stop doing. I'd also steer clear of social media.

The world actually isn't that bad.


Funnily enough, I caught the Ch9 news a couple times last week as it came in straight after the cricket. OMG. No wonder people are ******* wigging out!!

What a disgrace the news is. It's shameful on us all as a society that the 'news' has such a huge nightly audience.
I don’t really watch the news personally, but I do use social media and read articles (from various outlets). It’s just hard to avoid COVID news (twitter, Reddit etc.) because it’s talked about almost everywhere including at work.

I don’t like watching the news on major outlets like Channel 7 etc. because I think of them as fear-mongering devices. They sometimes exaggerate when reporting. I somewhat blame those major outlets for the COVID vaccine hesitancy in Australia to begin with. The way they covered the blood clots and other side effects of the vaccines (AstraZeneca and even Pfizer) was terrible and led quite a few people to believe that they’d get side effects when in reality it’s really no different to other vaccines and medication. Therefore, I do not recommend people to just rely on the television ‘news’ to tell them about what’s going on in the world
 

Dogs_R_Us

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I don’t really watch the news personally, but I do use social media and read articles (from various outlets). It’s just hard to avoid COVID news (twitter, Reddit etc.) because it’s talked about almost everywhere including at work.

I don’t like watching the news on major outlets like Channel 7 etc. because I think of them as fear-mongering devices. They sometimes exaggerate when reporting. I somewhat blame those major outlets for the COVID vaccine hesitancy in Australia to begin with. The way they covered the blood clots and other side effects of the vaccines (AstraZeneca and even Pfizer) was terrible and led quite a few people to believe that they’d get side effects when in reality it’s really no different to other vaccines and medication. Therefore, I do not recommend people to just rely on the television ‘news’ to tell them about what’s going on in the world
unfortunately they use extreme language to generate clicks/viewers and a lot of people believe everything they read/hear. No wonder people get scared. It’s also stirred up hate and distrust towards the authorities, who are doing their best (imho). None of us could do any better. (No we couldn’t).
 

morningbrown

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Just catching up on Walsh's descent into anti-vaxxer rhetoric. They all follow the same path with this crap.

Being obese and living an unhealthy lifestyle is almost infinitely more dangerous to an individual during this pandemic yet being obese and living this way is more accepted than living a healthy life otherwise but choosing not to vaxx.

I'm obviously against the mandates but can anyone on the opposite side of the discussion tell me why these people haven't been demonised and expelled from the workforce the same way as the unvaxxed have?

Classic anti-vaxx move to equate a non-contagious medical condition with a transmissible virus.

No being obese isn't contagious you are correct, but they do strain our hospital system more than any other. They require billions in medical treatment as a collective and also make operations and procedures more difficult and dangerous as well as requiring more nurses and surgeons in general.

I believe there's been statistical data to show that a booster vaxxed obese person with the general co- morbidities that come with it is still vastly more at risk of requiring medical treatment than a fit and healthy unvaxxed person

We hear so much about the strain on the health system but for decades prior and still to this day Obesity is the number 1 strain on hospitals.

"I believe" okay where is this data? Once again anti-vaxxers love a good anecdote or unproven piece of information.

Monoclonal antibodies have had fantastic effects in treating covid in other countries, (however early signs are that they have been less effective on Omicron according to reports) as far as I know the TGA has only bought over 7700 units from other countries which won't get us far - happy to be corrected but thats the only order I've heard in regards to it re Australia.

Investment into more ICU beds - which happened to be promised by the Andrews government but never delivered - In China they actually built 2 covid hospitals within 2 weeks. We have not attempted anything similar - not to say we'd do it in 2 weeks but while the construction industry had jobs put on hold and workers laid off due to restrictions and a lack of work this would have provided opportunity for many trades in need and would help us in the beef up the hospital system during and after the pandemic.

An effective plan to keep nurses and health care workers on without the need for a vaccine mandate - invest in a system which would allow the use of RAT tests and PCR tests or something entirely new which could allow us to keep these workers in the field without risking patients and co workers safety. What that system is I have no idea but there are other countries who have not implemented these mandates and their health systems have no collapsed as of yet.


Then theres a whole heap of other medicinal drugs which im not going to bother naming as I'm not a pharmacist, nor am I a scientist and nor do I claim to be. However the main focus of the Australian model has been on importing the covid vaccines rather than trialling and creating treatments for people who actually have covid.

The current advice in Australia is to isolate at home until your symptoms are so terrible that you need to head to the hospital - some other countries have been sending out treatment packages to citizens who test positive and while they differ all across the world they are rumoured to include vitamin drips, anti HIV medications and the infamous ivermectin (plz for the love of god im not telling anyone to take it) amongst other things. These drugs have already been approved by their drug administrations as safe for use and even if their benefits may be limited I believe it is better to try something than sit around doing nothing.


Now regardless of my scientific understanding of these drugs or the vaccines... I know that it is not effective to wait until someones symptoms are bad enough to go to the hospital, early treatment and prevention is the best thing you can do in any case.

While I have no issue with the vaccine program aside from the mandate, I believe it has led to a situation where all talk of other treatments has been unfairly dismissed without proper investigation and now we are stuck in a situation where the vaccines we were promised turned out not to be as effective as initially thought and we have no effective treatments of active cases arriving at the hospital. Many scientists and doctors pointed out quite early on that we needed to invest in other means of dealing with the pandemic, to make sure we have multiple options... instead it seems like Australia has put all their eggs in one basket without any real effective means of dealing with rising hospitilizations and heaven forbid if we end up with a strain which the vaccines have no effect on.

And here is the classic alternative treatments, none of which have the effectiveness of the jab. Been listening to Mr. Rogan have we?

A few people in here are so quick to just label anything they've heard a single negative story about on the news as Anti Vaxx. It's embarrassing that you believe your views are so full proof and that anyone who disagrees with them must automatically come under the same stereotypes as the lunatics of society preaching this is all Bill Gates fault.

I can be wrong about everything I've typed as maybe the limited data I've read online or heard on the news isn't up to date with the leading trials and research, that's okay. I'm always fine accepting I was wrong if it turns out to be the case. But to be labelled an anti vaxxer so willy nilly is honestly as low as it gets from your vitriolic hate mob

You must think your own sh*ts don't stink

Making yourself the victim. Another classic in the playbook.

Also admitting you haven't actually read into this properly and are talking out your ass.

That's where you're wrong. They are your opinions and you are not the be all and end all in the world of science. You're a keyboard warrior on bigfooty as is just about everyone else on this site - it's something I'm happy to admit too.

Get over yourself and stop acting so righteous and mighty, it's a terrible trait.

So do you believe in science or not? Because if you did believe, you'd realise how idiotic it is to be against the vaxx.

Do tell me how i meet your quota of an anti vaxxer?

My understanding of the world is my own. Do you know if im fat, thin, old or young? No. You have no understanding of my existence and instead choose to categorize and stereotype me based on the small amount of discussion I have on an online footy forum.

Bigotry at its finest.

I'm gonna trust a scientist over your worldview.

For something I do not have knowledge of, are local GPS able to administer IV infusions or Hospital/clinics only?

Hey look! You're not an expert in this field yet spruik bullshit alternatives to a safe vaccine!

I tried my best to read through as much of it as I could so thanks for the link. Seems to support my post about other countries attempting to provide treatments in the form of at home medical kits filled with similar medicines. As I said, I'm no scientist so much of the data I simply cannot understand unless it's been simplified, but it highlighted ivermectin has shown some minor benefits in some places and next to none in others?

Australia instead went ahead and banned its use for covid altogether and added to the infamous reputation it has already, yet as far as I am aware it's one of the safest drugs on the market as it takes huge over the top dosages to cause severe side effects.

Even in the case that these countries were providing it and it didn't end up helping enough to cause a difference, I think that's a great system and if they had managed to identify more effective medicines which patients could self treat with it would have been a brilliant solution.

I'm not suggesting anyone take it. But I think the idea itself was fantastic, just turned out much like our vaccines, hasn't had the desired outcome we wanted or at minimal has been less effective than we hoped

Once again admitting you know nothing. And your arguments are all over the shop.
 

WalshistheGOAT

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Just catching up on Walsh's descent into anti-vaxxer rhetoric. They all follow the same path with this crap.



Classic anti-vaxx move to equate a non-contagious medical condition with a transmissible virus.



"I believe" okay where is this data? Once again anti-vaxxers love a good anecdote or unproven piece of information.



And here is the classic alternative treatments, none of which have the effectiveness of the jab. Been listening to Mr. Rogan have we?



Making yourself the victim. Another classic in the playbook.

Also admitting you haven't actually read into this properly and are talking out your ass.



So do you believe in science or not? Because if you did believe, you'd realise how idiotic it is to be against the vaxx.



I'm gonna trust a scientist over your worldview.



Hey look! You're not an expert in this field yet spruik bullshit alternatives to a safe vaccine!



Once again admitting you know nothing. And your arguments are all over the shop.
Stopped reading after u labelled me anti vax. Ur narrow view of the world isn't worth the time of day.