This is not true, and is outlined in the information you have posted yourself and in the clarifications you've had directed to you. Covid is never listed as the cause of death but as a contribution to their death if directly linked.
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Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions
- Thread starter Goosecat
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This is not true, and is outlined in the information you have posted yourself and in the clarifications you've had directed to you. Covid is never listed as the cause of death but as a contribution to their death if directly linked.
And I agree with you for ICD codes.
If the chain of events that caused the death is all secondary to covid, its coded as a covid related death. So ARDS caused by a viral pneumonia caused by covid will be coded as a covid death.
I see no issues with that. Do you?
On death certs...he is talking about ICD coding which is not something doctors do
We had crossed wires for a while, but we got there!
Death certs will always list the actual COD, but coding (in regards covid) will call it a covid death IF the chain of events leading to death all started with covid.
Its for ABS data on Covid deaths....
Just to clarify this: This would only apply if Covid-19 or Suspected Covid-19 is actually written on the death cert.....Otherwise there would be nothing to code in regards covid....
It was a 30 and 40 year old. the quote was “I don’t believe so. I believe they passed away while being Covid positive. I don’t believe it was the primary cause,”.
Now I read that as they would have died covid or no covid. Now that serves no purpose including them in covid deaths except to give the skeptics some ammo to work with.
Thanks for link. Agreed, if they died of something other than covid, even though might have had covid, I dont see the sense in saying anything either.
It was a 30 and 40 year old. the quote was “I don’t believe so. I believe they passed away while being Covid positive. I don’t believe it was the primary cause,”.
Now I read that as they would have died covid or no covid. Now that serves no purpose including them in covid deaths except to give the skeptics some ammo to work with.
Because it justifies the oppressive system we've been placed under. It's all an artifice
I shouldn't say all.. but it's artificially extrapolated to justify the imposition of oppressive regimes.
I do have to say, the no unvaccinated in retail at 90% is one rule I don't really understand. There's been plenty along the way that some people will argue about but I can see the justification over. This is not really one of them.
I'd imagine it's to make life easier for retailers whilst they re-open.
And also to give the anti-COVID vaxxers a taste.
But does it make life easier for the retailers? The idea of small store retailers needing to check every person's vaccine status as they enter the store is going to be overwhelming for some and I don't blame them if they decide it's too hard. Many will only have one or two staff on anyway. Some would be easy, e.g. A hairdresser where they can check when you sit down. Others... Not so much.
Big stores are a different story.
In the short term, definitely.
It doesn't matter whether its comprised of experts or politicians, it could be both. The fact of the matter is, the Minister must be bound to consider from an objective position the recommendation of said committee. Because as currently drafted, they're not. They have a subjective discretion to ignore the recommendation of the committee. Given the distinction between the two, a decision of the minister under the Victorian system is effectively unchallengeable. As all they have to prove is they SUBJECTIVELY thought there was a risk. In that scenario, you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the minister's decision was baseless (i.e there was no pandemic) and the decision could never be legally overturned. It's just bad law.
But is there any indication that the Government's case numbers are based on death certificate details at all? Or if they have an entirely different system? I have no doubt that what you've said about death certificate reporting standards is true, but do we have any indication that the government is actually using that metric to determine covid death stats or is it an entirely different system (like the UK died within 28 days of covid test position). This argument may be completely across purposes. I'm honestly not aware.
Just a reminder that the UK death numbers with covid listed on the death certificate is higher than the number that died within 28 days of a positive covid test.
ABS: " Mortality data compiled by the ABS is not based on this daily surveillance. Instead, it is based on death registrations processed by the jurisdictional Registries of Births, Deaths and Marriages, and information on the cause of death sourced from a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) completed by a certifying practitioner."
COVID-19 Mortality in Australia, Deaths registered to 31 August 2020
COVID-19 Deaths that occurred by August 31 that have been registered and received by the ABS
www.abs.gov.au
Can you expand on the bolded point?ABS: " Mortality data compiled by the ABS is not based on this daily surveillance. Instead, it is based on death registrations processed by the jurisdictional Registries of Births, Deaths and Marriages, and information on the cause of death sourced from a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) completed by a certifying practitioner."
COVID-19 Mortality in Australia, Deaths registered to 31 August 2020
COVID-19 Deaths that occurred by August 31 that have been registered and received by the ABS
I guess the thing i'm trying to get at is - the daily statistics shared in updates and press conferences is the key figure because that is the figure designed to instill fear and justify further authoritarian measures. Are those figures based on the 'daily surveillance numbers' and the ABS actual death statistics are compiled later (at which point they have no function of instilling fear as people will not go back and check).
Busy today so havent had a chance to check data sources...
But it seems the "daily surveillance" is reported by the NNDSS and uses: "Data for COVID-19 deaths notified in the latest reporting period were extracted from daily notifications from state and territory health departments to the National Incident Room (NIR), received up to the end of the reporting period"
The ABS uses data from death certs.
If you look at the NNDSS, they may have an explanation of their data sources that explains more...
- Jun 14, 2017
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Im not vaccinated and until this mans Vaccine is released I wont bother:
- Mar 20, 2009
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- #3,970
I just read something online that a worker who is unvaccinated or had one shot can shop in the store they're employed in. However they cannot work and make a living.
How the * does that make sense?
How the * does that make sense?
- Oct 12, 2017
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COVID-19 is to be written as the cause of death as shown in the links I've posted from the WHO, followed by the ABS with instructions FOR CERTIFICATION AND CLASSIFICATION (CODING) OF COVID-19 AS CAUSE OF DEATH.
It's not argument about semantics when examples are clearly laid out for COVID-19 to be listed as the cause of death, when other contributing conditions like pneumonia or ARDS etc are present and to be listed as contributing, but not the cause of death.
I am aware of the code to be used if the virus isn't detected, but COVID-19 is still counted as the cause of death. This might change with further analysis, like Australia have done in the link you provide, but not all countries will do that.
However some authorities and the press have been quick to attribute COVID -19 as the cause of death in cases recently in two 15 year olds when one had been suffering from cancer for a long period and the other similar with meningitis, I think. The families were appalled that both were called COVID -19 deaths initially and are still being counted as COVID-19 deaths, (https://www.health.gov.au/news/heal...onavirus-covid-19-case-numbers-and-statistics) but hopefully with further analysis these will be removed.
Another high profile case was the 30 year old women who was said to have died of COVID-19 at home but her case was referred to the coroner. After autopsy it was found she died from pneumonia and her cause of death was changed. COVID-19 and pneumonia are different as the autopsy found.
Sydney’s 30yo covid-19 victim identified
A 30-year-old mother of three has died at home in Sydney’s west after being diagnosed with Covid-19.
www.news.com.au
Family of Australia's youngest Covid victim reveal REAL cause of death
Ianeta Isaako's family have revealed her official cause of death after the mum-of-three was reported to be NSW's youngest female Covid victim at just 30 years old.
- Oct 12, 2017
- 9,290
- 28,426
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
It's a good link and shows Australia are analysing the reports and and removing COVID-19 as a cause of death when it was unlikely to be.
My count was 902, taking out the reports where the virus was not detected to get 904 lab confirmed deaths directly due to COVID-19 up until July 31 2021.
However the Health Dept. website is saying 1707 deaths (31 Oct.) but includes the two 15 years, and looks to be including the 30 year old women and some in their 20s that are from other causes.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) case numbers and statistics
This page provides updates about the current situation, latest case numbers and related information. It is updated every day by 9 pm AEST and reflects the previous 24 hours.
Another high profile case was the 30 year old women who was said to have died of COVID-19 at home but her case was referred to the coroner. After autopsy it was found she died from pneumonia and her cause of death was changed. COVID-19 and pneumonia are different as the autopsy found.
Sydney’s 30yo covid-19 victim identified
A 30-year-old mother of three has died at home in Sydney’s west after being diagnosed with Covid-19.
Family of Australia's youngest Covid victim reveal REAL cause of death
Ianeta Isaako's family have revealed her official cause of death after the mum-of-three was reported to be NSW's youngest female Covid victim at just 30 years old.www.dailymail.co.uk
Just on that 30yo woman. I'm unsure why you're saying this shouldn't be included in the numbers. It looks to me like the coroner's finding was that she died of pneumonia due to the presence of covid, it mentions the connection quite a few times in the article.
The article seems to allude that the families anger is at comments that she was 'anti-vax' by media when they weren't, rather than they were angry at the covid diagnosis/death classification.
So the medical certification of deaths are working well then.It's a good link and shows Australia are analysing the reports and and removing COVID-19 as a cause of death when it was unlikely to be.
My count was 902, taking out the reports where the virus was not detected to get 904 lab confirmed deaths directly due to COVID-19 up until July 31 2021.
However the Health Dept. website is saying 1707 deaths (31 Oct.) but includes the two 15 years, and looks to be including the 30 year old women and some in their 20s that are from other causes.
View attachment 1272193
Coronavirus (COVID-19) case numbers and statistics
This page provides updates about the current situation, latest case numbers and related information. It is updated every day by 9 pm AEST and reflects the previous 24 hours.www.health.gov.au
As for the Health Dept...I dont know what their data set used is.
