Covid-19 Mandatory vaccines

Remove this Banner Ad

Chief

Chugging Adrenochrome
Dec 1, 1999
104,531
84,064
Gates' Payroll
AFL Club
Carlton
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infec...d-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference.
The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
Last edited:

TheGreatBarryB

Hall of Famer
Mar 20, 2007
30,174
31,156
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Texans, Astros, Leeds
Germany with just mid 60s vax rate yesterday recorded 350 deaths and 75k infections.

New strain of virus from low vaxxed South Africa that may be more infectious
 

Log in to remove this ad.

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,123
14,599
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
A community in NT has been put into lockdown despite not one person testing positive or showing symptoms. The psychopath Gunner has said it's because the vaccination rate is low.

There are only 57 active 'cases' in the whole of NT, which is about as big as Portugal, Spain, France and the UK combined.

Some of those people picked up the virus after being relocated to the Howard Springs 'isolation facility'. You couldn't make it up.

NT town enters lockdown after three new local COVID-19 cases
 

Clems Knee

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 15, 2009
8,301
15,447
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
A community in NT has been put into lockdown despite not one person testing positive or showing symptoms. The psychopath Gunner has said it's because the vaccination rate is low.

There are only 57 active 'cases' in the whole of NT, which is about as big as Portugal, Spain, France and the UK combined.

Some of those people picked up the virus after being relocated to the Howard Springs 'isolation facility'. You couldn't make it up.

NT town enters lockdown after three new local COVID-19 cases

You are projecting.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,977
15,654
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
According to Australian Guidelines this would not be classed as a Covid-19 death because it was due to trauma. But otherwise, if someone dies and has tested positive for the Sars-Cov-2 virus, by default it is counted as a COVID-19 death. When they have died from heart attack, cancer, Parkinsons, Alzheimer's.

The media is especially keen to highlight anyone under 50 who dies "with Covid". Then you look into the story and they mention co-morbidities.
of the examples you cite
- heart attack - there is myocarditis from covid 19, as well as septic shock can also lead to insufficient coronary blood flow which can cause "heart attack"; now if you are meaning that this person had covid 19 +ve, but was still well, then had sudden onset chest pain then died - yeah I'd agree that should not be classed as covid 19. It takes a lot of effort/ data collection to work this out though, unless the GP doing the death certificate had known the patient well (then they would accurately document cause of death as AMI and COVID 19 as only an associated condition)
- cancer - very hard to exclude the additive effect of COVID 19 infection (same was other cancer patients die of pneumonia etc)
- death from Parkinsons would be a fall (so trauma) or aspiration pneumonia (which would like a bit like chest infection, so distinguishing from COVID 19 hard)
- death from Alzheimers - similar to cancer, how do you exclude the additive effect

Better data costs more money and time. Is that where you see best use of health care resources?
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,977
15,654
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Health education has been woeful. Though some places distibuted it freely to fams. Prob need high dosages initially. Poor quality meds won't be absorbed that well so brands should be checked. Darker skin tones need more supplementation/exposure. Sun exposure is much more effective for the suggested time between 10 and 2 when sun is highest. Some national health bodies, eg UK, don't even recommend folk get a vit d level test to learn if they are deficient or not.
IN australia vitamin D deficiency issues are fighting uphill against sunsmart messaging. Its an ongoing issue.
 

Osho

By God and the mauser.
Jul 9, 2021
764
766
AFL Club
GWS
IN australia vitamin D deficiency issues are fighting uphill against sunsmart messaging. Its an ongoing issue.
That's interesting. Immune system versus skin health. Is an hour of sunlight a day, at say 10am, a serious skin cancer risk, and do sun creams block the necessay spectrum? I suppose that is where Vit D supplements would become essential.
 

SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
48,184
42,305
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
of the examples you cite
- heart attack - there is myocarditis from covid 19, as well as septic shock can also lead to insufficient coronary blood flow which can cause "heart attack"; now if you are meaning that this person had covid 19 +ve, but was still well, then had sudden onset chest pain then died - yeah I'd agree that should not be classed as covid 19. It takes a lot of effort/ data collection to work this out though, unless the GP doing the death certificate had known the patient well (then they would accurately document cause of death as AMI and COVID 19 as only an associated condition)
- cancer - very hard to exclude the additive effect of COVID 19 infection (same was other cancer patients die of pneumonia etc)
- death from Parkinsons would be a fall (so trauma) or aspiration pneumonia (which would like a bit like chest infection, so distinguishing from COVID 19 hard)
- death from Alzheimers - similar to cancer, how do you exclude the additive effect

Better data costs more money and time. Is that where you see best use of health care resources?

There is also a fair bit of statistical data regarding death "after" Covid.
It seems like blood clotting can occur even in asymptomatic cases , and that in the months after recovery they stroke or ischaemic heart attack.
When these result in death, i doubt they are recorded as "Covid" deaths. For sure there will be grey areas and errors both ways.
We don't need better data, we know its killing a "lot" of people. The exact number is not important.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
17,648
22,460
AFL Club
Essendon
Is an hour of sunlight a day, at say 10am, a serious skin cancer risk

It's above the recommended amount of sun exposure, from memory the recommended amount for Vitamin D is basically walking to and from the car during daylight hours so an hour isn't really necessary anyway.

In summer it's not such a problem, in winter for office-workers it's quite easy not to actually get enough sun exposure.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,977
15,654
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It's above the recommended amount of sun exposure, from memory the recommended amount for Vitamin D is basically walking to and from the car during daylight hours so an hour isn't really necessary anyway.

In summer it's not such a problem, in winter for office-workers it's quite easy not to actually get enough sun exposure.
This is current (and joint position from skin protection vs osteoporosis)


They only say “few minutes on bare arms” should be sufficient (I had heard size of palms for 15 minutes) but is also dependent on skin pigmentation
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,123
14,599
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
of the examples you cite
- heart attack - there is myocarditis from covid 19, as well as septic shock can also lead to insufficient coronary blood flow which can cause "heart attack"; now if you are meaning that this person had covid 19 +ve, but was still well, then had sudden onset chest pain then died - yeah I'd agree that should not be classed as covid 19. It takes a lot of effort/ data collection to work this out though, unless the GP doing the death certificate had known the patient well (then they would accurately document cause of death as AMI and COVID 19 as only an associated condition)
- cancer - very hard to exclude the additive effect of COVID 19 infection (same was other cancer patients die of pneumonia etc)
- death from Parkinsons would be a fall (so trauma) or aspiration pneumonia (which would like a bit like chest infection, so distinguishing from COVID 19 hard)
- death from Alzheimers - similar to cancer, how do you exclude the additive effect

Better data costs more money and time. Is that where you see best use of health care resources?

I agree that it can be hard to assess the main cause of death. But where an elderly person is already sick with multiple ailments then dies within 28 days of a positive test should it automatically be assigned as a Covid death? What value does it add? From an Italian study, the average age of death among the unvaccinated was 78, with those people having four pre-existing conditions on average. The average age of death in the vaccinated was 85, and that on average each person had five underlying illnesses when they caught Covid.

Where someone has died but shows no current Covid-19 symptoms it often gets referred to the coroner. It is not a waste of health resources. It is vital for our understanding of this virus, its impact, and best treatment. Like the German pathologist, Peter Schirmacher, who has carried out hundreds of autopsies that have led, among other things, to better treatment and ventilation of Covid sufferers. "The knowledge gained here helps to be able to treat sick people better and more successfully and to save lives"

The issue has also become politicised. Daniel Andrews cited the death of a 27-year-old Sydney man as an example that the Delta strain is super dangerous for young people. The cause of death was not known and had been referred to the coroner. Another time last year a guy in his 20s died. It was pretty obvious it was a drug overdose but it did not stop Andrews stating "We are talking about the youngest person that has died of this virus, or at least with this virus".
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,977
15,654
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I agree that it can be hard to assess the main cause of death. But where an elderly person is already sick with multiple ailments then dies within 28 days of a positive test should it automatically be assigned as a Covid death? What value does it add? From an Italian study, the average age of death among the unvaccinated was 78, with those people having four pre-existing conditions on average. The average age of death in the vaccinated was 85, and that on average each person had five underlying illnesses when they caught Covid.

Where someone has died but shows no current Covid-19 symptoms it often gets referred to the coroner. It is not a waste of health resources. It is vital for our understanding of this virus, its impact, and best treatment. Like the German pathologist, Peter Schirmacher, who has carried out hundreds of autopsies that have led, among other things, to better treatment and ventilation of Covid sufferers. "The knowledge gained here helps to be able to treat sick people better and more successfully and to save lives"

The issue has also become politicised. Daniel Andrews cited the death of a 27-year-old Sydney man as an example that the Delta strain is super dangerous for young people. The cause of death was not known and had been referred to the coroner. Another time last year a guy in his 20s died. It was pretty obvious it was a drug overdose but it did not stop Andrews stating "We are talking about the youngest person that has died of this virus, or at least with this virus".
Anecdotal evidence 😁

But more serious it takes serious funding and time to determine cause. And while perhaps measuring it against total life expectancy would be a better way there would be immediate cries of devaluation of the lives of the elderly
 

Marcel Proust

"Oohh WADA ooga booga" {Jul 11 2013}
Sep 6, 2018
22,491
31,920
#BigBigSound
AFL Club
Richmond
This being the key point, they're not experts. Those who are experts, almost universally agree with getting it, and from what I've seen, those opposed to it often have extremely dubious credentials or a conflict of interest.

100% of nurses and doctors I know have all gotten it, so I'm guessing the overriding sentiment in the medical industry is pro-vaccine.

Was having a feed with a doctor got chatting.

Did not know / believe that az is made from chimp virus.

Bit of a worry these experts don't know the basics?
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,123
14,599
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
But more serious it takes serious funding and time to determine cause.

We've had almost two years now and funding seems to be the least of our worries when it suits.

And while perhaps measuring it against total life expectancy would be a better way there would be immediate cries of devaluation of the lives of the elderly

I go back to what I said. It is vital for our understanding of this virus that the data is collected and analysed so as to assess its impact and best treatment is devised. As the German pathologist said, Peter Schirmacher, who has carried out hundreds of autopsies that have led, among other things, to better treatment and ventilation of Covid sufferers. "The knowledge gained here helps to be able to treat sick people better and more successfully and to save lives"
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,977
15,654
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
We've had almost two years now and funding seems to be the least of our worries when it suits.



I go back to what I said. It is vital for our understanding of this virus that the data is collected and analysed so as to assess its impact and best treatment is devised. As the German pathologist said, Peter Schirmacher, who has carried out hundreds of autopsies that have led, among other things, to better treatment and ventilation of Covid sufferers. "The knowledge gained here helps to be able to treat sick people better and more successfully and to save lives"
So in Victoria there appears to be fork all capacity to do autopsy, and it’s not just funding but having clinicians/ researchers interested in doing a pretty dry audit.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
17,648
22,460
AFL Club
Essendon
Was having a feed with a doctor got chatting.

Did not know / believe that az is made from chimp virus.

Bit of a worry these experts don't know the basics?

Not every doctor is an 'expert' in vaccine creation and manufacture, you do get that right?

The health advice remains the same. You don't go to a mechanic to ask how the electronics in your car are developed after all.
 

Chief

Chugging Adrenochrome
Dec 1, 1999
104,531
84,064
Gates' Payroll
AFL Club
Carlton
Was having a feed with a doctor got chatting.

Did not know / believe that az is made from chimp virus.

Bit of a worry these experts don't know the basics?
As a doctor friend of mine once said: "A doctor is just another bozo with a university degree."

Your local GP is not a virologist.
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,123
14,599
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
So in Victoria there appears to be fork all capacity to do autopsy, and it’s not just funding but having clinicians/ researchers interested in doing a pretty dry audit.

Of course there is capacity to do the small number of autopsies. The funding is political.

There has been unlimited funding to provide millions of PCR tests at the taxpayer expense. There has been unlimited funding to provide million of vaccines. But virtually nothing on what might lead to better treatment and ventilation of Covid sufferers.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,977
15,654
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Of course there is capacity to do the small number of autopsies. The funding is political.

There has been unlimited funding to provide millions of PCR tests at the taxpayer expense. There has been unlimited funding to provide million of vaccines. But virtually nothing on what might lead to better treatment and ventilation of Covid sufferers.
There are bugger all anatomical pathologists.
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,123
14,599
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
There are bugger all anatomical pathologists.

There's sufficient for the small number of deaths we are seeing. But you would only need one or two who took that interest to make significant findings as German pathologist, Peter Schirmacher, did.
 
Last edited:

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad