Covid-19 Mandatory vaccines

Remove this Banner Ad

Chief

Chugging Adrenochrome
Dec 1, 1999
104,638
84,178
Gates' Payroll
AFL Club
Carlton
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infec...d-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference.
The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
Last edited:

Opine

Premium Gold
Aug 30, 2018
6,529
11,859
AFL Club
Carlton
The Victorian Government has all but lifted restrictions, suggesting current overall Vaccination % may be scientifically capable of dealing with the potential risk of future transmission as we know it. Despite unprecedented current infection rates, the relaxing of mandatory lockdown and close-contact redefinitions seem to support that inference. Yet, the smaller percentage of Victorians who've chosen not to be vaccinated remain prohibited from working away from home.

Temporarily leave aside that employers and employees may make private arrangements regarding vaccination between themselves. Other States/Territories don't appear to be imposing the same level of restriction as Victoria, but for those industries in which it seems objectively justifiable.

So, what's the reasoning and proportional justification behind what seems to be a continuing blanket prohibition, imposed by the Victorian Labour Government, on employees who've chosen not to be vaccinated, working away from home?
 

SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
48,207
42,350
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
This has always been about reducing the impact of Covid, not killing it outright. Reducing the strain on our health services as much as possible. Check this out;



See, it's a reactionary vaccine, because the virus in this case isn't really alive. It just replicates itself once it finds a host, f*cking said host up in the process. The only way forward is to recognise then thwart the severity of the attack after its already started.

Why is that different to ( for example ) smallpox vaccines?
Which vaccines are "NOT" reactionary.
 

AFC AFeederClub

Club Legend
Nov 23, 2018
1,628
2,335
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
In the least surprising plot twist to all the nonsensical rules, Novak Djokovic has been given an exemption to compete in the Australian Open.

So there's approximately 600,000 people in Victoria who are unable to attend this tennis tournament because of vaccine mandate rules. Those same people are unable to get a job to provide for their families.

Whereas an overseas player with undeclared vaccine status can fly in and make $4.5 million in a couple of weeks for a swinging a racquet.
The thing about vaccines, all of them, is that they are usually only be valid against known variants or strains. Omicron wasn't known of when the health services scrambled against the original strain, or Alpha, or Delta. Mutations can be anticipated but they can never actually be countered until they reveal themselves. As it goes right now omicron is hampered a good bit by the vaccines and especially the repeat boosters we've come up with so far, but that's it. It has evaded even double-vaxxed defences and now we all need a third round of injections to be safe.

Never forget that as we learn, so does the virus. Not in a conscious way, but in an evolutionary way. It needs to replicate to survve but killing the host too early prevents spread and therefore breeding. So it learns and it learns to sidestep our countermeasures as it progresses.

It becomes a neverending loop until the virus steps back (or is forced to step back) into its endemic 'background' phase rather than the current pandemic one.
ah yes, the old round about theory, a solid classic
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Geelong_Sicko

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
19,314
17,486
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Why is that different to ( for example ) smallpox vaccines?
Which vaccines are "NOT" reactionary.

I think this answers that;

Nov 29, 2021

...All vaccines trigger immunity, but how long it lasts depends on several factors. One of them is the rate at which a virus replicates, says Hai Tran, associate director of Cedars-Sinai's Pharmacy Services.

"If a virus replicates quickly, it has a chance to produce more mutations, also known as variants. The more variants emerge, the harder it is to make a vaccine that will create lasting immunity, because the target keeps moving," she explains.

Ethan Smith, a pharmacist at Cedars-Sinai, agrees: "If a virus is stable, that gives us a big advantage. Measles is an example of a stable virus that is unlikely to replicate, so scientists could predict that immunity would last a long time, which it does." Smallpox and polio, highly contagious viruses that were almost eradicated through vaccination, are also stable with low mutation rates.

Viruses that replicate fast and mutate a lot, like influenza, pose a challenge for vaccine makers. "Every year there are multiple new strains of flu, which is why you should get a flu shot every year," says Hai. "This season's flu vaccine offers protection against four different strains, but next year, there likely will be new ones..."

Stable, slow-moving virus = longer vaccine immunity from said virus. Fast-moving, quickly-mutating virus = shorter immuno-protection between strains/variants.

ah yes, the old round about theory, a solid classic

Fair enough. What's your take on the situation?
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,135
14,608
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
Source for 600,000? thanks

It was a BOAFP estimate based on the Victorian population and % vaccinated. The actual number of non-vaccinated adults in Victoria is about 407,000. My point still stands.


Hundreds of thousands of Victorians can't earn a living let alone attend a tennis game. Yet an overseas elite sports star is given an exemption - because $$$. fu** off.
 

AFC AFeederClub

Club Legend
Nov 23, 2018
1,628
2,335
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Some fu**in clown on the High Wycombe tavern Facebook page compared mandates to Nazi Germany. And then it got pointed out to her that the Nazis actually opposed mandates so it'd kill the "weak." Golden irony.
as opposed to the mandate of the gas chambers of course?
 

AFC AFeederClub

Club Legend
Nov 23, 2018
1,628
2,335
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
And now even more countries are making vaccines and boosters mandatory.

this is just the way it has to be.
what a lemming " this is just the way it has to be " How's the vaccine's control of the virus going? With all the unvaxxed still locked out of community gatherings it must be the vaxxed spreading the virus,
 

SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
48,207
42,350
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
I think this answers that;



Stable, slow-moving virus = longer vaccine immunity from said virus. Fast-moving, quickly-mutating virus = shorter immuno-protection between strains/variants.



Fair enough. What's your take on the situation?

That makes sense. But it doesn't support the original claim that the Covid vaccines were inferior because they are reactionary. Its because they are chasing a fast moving quickly mutating virus.
 

SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
48,207
42,350
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
what a lemming " this is just the way it has to be " How's the vaccine's control of the virus going? With all the unvaxxed still locked out of community gatherings it must be the vaxxed spreading the virus,

Its the unvaxxed filling the hospitals still.
The nearest analogy i can find to following someone off a cliff is to jump on the anti-vaxx bandwagon.

Most of the others are avoiding the cliff.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

AFC AFeederClub

Club Legend
Nov 23, 2018
1,628
2,335
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Its the unvaxxed filling the hospitals still.
The nearest analogy i can find to following someone off a cliff is to jump on the anti-vaxx bandwagon.

Most of the others are avoiding the cliff.
Not true, most people did it because they were pushed into a corner, the jump in the van rate confirms this
 

Seeds

Hall of Famer
Sep 15, 2007
45,188
40,942
I don't know
AFL Club
Geelong
what a lemming " this is just the way it has to be " How's the vaccine's control of the virus going? With all the unvaxxed still locked out of community gatherings it must be the vaxxed spreading the virus,
Lol following science is a lemming.

Half the hospitalisations are the unvaxed despite 95 percent of the population being vaxed. Maths is your friend.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,995
15,688
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Health Professionals are the last people who should take extra risks and working with Covid.
Surely some of their patients have pre-existing conditions that mean they are in the most vulnerable category.
Yes they (the patients are). However if the alternative is no health care worker looking after them...
(thats not doomsaying thats the real choice that the hospitals are choosing between)

currently we don't yet have known positive work and our close contacts do daily RAT for 6 days pre shift before starting work.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,995
15,688
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
In the least surprising plot twist to all the nonsensical rules, Novak Djokovic has been given an exemption to compete in the Australian Open.

So there's approximately 600,000 people in Victoria who are unable to attend this tennis tournament because of vaccine mandate rules. Those same people are unable to get a job to provide for their families.

Whereas an overseas player with undeclared vaccine status can fly in and make $4.5 million in a couple of weeks for a swinging a racquet.
I think if they show recent covid infection that qualified on the vaccination mandate link
though not 100% sure as I don't need to really give a crap being triple vaxxed
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,995
15,688
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
From that article, it suggests that people without symptoms present a small risk of being infectious. But apparently the narrative of vaccines has moved on from preventing infection (and never was) and is now about preventing serious illness.

Omicron should be a game changer in how we approach the virus - it's mostly about the same severity as a cold. But governments and the media seem to be fixated by 'cases'. A case being a +ve test for Sars-Cov-2 without the requirement for any symptoms. Queues for tests are kilometers long. Vital services are short staffed due to isolation rules.

Are the measures against Omicron are having more impact than the illness?
it is not mostly a cold. Its mostly like flu (because people can be asymptomatic with flu) with body aches, headaches, fever in most that do end up contacting doctors (a bit like what people who contact doctors with flu tend to have) in the vaccinated population. And like flu it can really be bad for people with comorbidities even if vaccinated (but comorbidities are not modifiable while vaccination status is)

test queue at one of the PCR test sites (airport west) seem much shorter today than the last week, maybe because we aren't having +ve RAT people having to queue for a test.

isolation rules are being wound back for health care. But in Victoria it is difficult as there is still likely a reasonable amount of existing delta in hospital settings so it becomes difficult to know which covid can be treated lightly and which with more concern

i have heard that omicron is similar in severity to original covid, its only less severe when compared to delta (which was predominant strain)
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,995
15,688
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
The Victorian Government has all but lifted restrictions, suggesting current overall Vaccination % may be scientifically capable of dealing with the potential risk of future transmission as we know it. Despite unprecedented current infection rates, the relaxing of mandatory lockdown and close-contact redefinitions seem to support that inference. Yet, the smaller percentage of Victorians who've chosen not to be vaccinated remain prohibited from working away from home.

Temporarily leave aside that employers and employees may make private arrangements regarding vaccination between themselves. Other States/Territories don't appear to be imposing the same level of restriction as Victoria, but for those industries in which it seems objectively justifiable.

So, what's the reasoning and proportional justification behind what seems to be a continuing blanket prohibition, imposed by the Victorian Labour Government, on employees who've chosen not to be vaccinated, working away from home?
the current hospitalisation burden which would be made worse by increased movement of the unvax.

solution is simple.

get forking vaccinated.
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,135
14,608
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
I think if they show recent covid infection that qualified on the vaccination mandate link

The below is the rule in Victoria. You would think if someone is able to compete for top prize in a Grand Slam tennis tournament they would have completely recovered from an acute illness.

Confirmed infection with SARS-CoV-2 within the last 6 months where the individual has not recovered from their acute illness. 3
3. Past confirmed infection with SARS-CoV-2 is not a contraindication to vaccination. ATAGI recommends that vaccination should be deferred in those with PCR confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection until complete recovery from the acute illness. These individuals should be vaccinated as soon as they have recovered from acute illness, regardless of disease severity, and within 6 months after onset of the SARS- CoV-2 infection.​

 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,135
14,608
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
But here we are discussing the finer points of the rule for one foreign celebrity sportsman - when the whole basis of the rule is bogus in a number of ways and has a continued impact on the lives of hundreds of thousands of Victorians.

Why are we mandating vaccines for people who probably have immunity due to naturally acquired infection and recovery?
From the UK

A hospital consultant has told the Health Secretary he refused to be vaccinated because he has immunity from being "antibody" positive after exposure to the virus.​
Steve James, a consultant anaesthetist at King's College Hospital in London, who has worked in the ICU since early 2020 treating Covid patients, told Sajid Javid why he did not believe in vaccination.​
Mr James told the PA news agency he did not believe Covid-19 was causing "very significant problems" for young people, adding that his patients in the ICU had been "extremely overweight" with multiple other co-morbidities.​


Why are we discriminating against non-vaxxed when the infection rate is now higher in double vaxxed? I have previously cited numbers from the UK and Sweden. This is from Iceland that has one of the highest vax rates in the world.

1641628018808.png



 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
20,995
15,688
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
But here we are discussing the finer points of the rule for one foreign celebrity sportsman - when the whole basis of the rule is bogus in a number of ways and has a continued impact on the lives of hundreds of thousands of Victorians.

Why are we mandating vaccines for people who probably have immunity due to naturally acquired infection and recovery?
From the UK

A hospital consultant has told the Health Secretary he refused to be vaccinated because he has immunity from being "antibody" positive after exposure to the virus.​
Steve James, a consultant anaesthetist at King's College Hospital in London, who has worked in the ICU since early 2020 treating Covid patients, told Sajid Javid why he did not believe in vaccination.​
Mr James told the PA news agency he did not believe Covid-19 was causing "very significant problems" for young people, adding that his patients in the ICU had been "extremely overweight" with multiple other co-morbidities.​


Why are we discriminating against non-vaxxed when the infection rate is now higher in double vaxxed? I have previously cited numbers from the UK and Sweden. This is from Iceland that has one of the highest vax rates in the world.

View attachment 1307723


Nah I don’t care. Tell them shut up and be vaccinated.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad