Covid-19 Mandatory vaccines

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Chief

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https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infec...d-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference.
The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
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TheBrownDog
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I'm pro vax and proudly had my third jab this week

however I don't believe vax should be mandatory, if the experts who approve vaccines won't give the covid jabs unconditional approvals or provisional approvals.

I also believe making vaccines mandatory is counter productive as creates conflict resulting in people seeking exemptions.

Personally I would deal with the issue through rebates and medicare surcharge and in triage allocating beds and ventilators to the vaxxed in priority over the unvaxxed.
 

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Opine

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the current hospitalisation burden which would be made worse by increased movement of the unvax.

solution is simple.

get forking vaccinated.
I’m pro vaccination; having recently received my 3rd dose/booster.
However, a blanket State prohibition on fundamental freedom of movement and ability of unvaccinated to work away from home shouldn’t be permitted to persist indefinitely.

The question needs to be asked: what will constitute a reasonable threshold at which point the risk no longer justifies limiting the fundamental freedoms of those who’ve chosen not to freely acquiesce to being medicated?

IINM the relaxing of restrictions has already driven Victorian hospital system to near capacity? The critical question is:how much more severely overcapacity would the Vic health system likely become if those Victorian’s who remain unvaccinated are permitted to work on site? Other States/Territories might provide a comparison.
 
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TheBrownDog
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I’m pro vaccination; having recently received my 3rd dose/booster.
However, a blanket State prohibition on fundamental freedom of movement and ability to work away from home shouldn’t be permitted to persist indefinitely. The question needs to be asked: what will constitute that threshold at which point the risk no longer justifies limiting the fundamental freedoms of those who’ve chosen not to freely acquiesce to receiving medication?

IINM the relaxing of restrictions has already driven Vic hospital system to capacity. The critical question is:how much more severely overcapacity would the Vic health system likely become if those Victorian’s who remain unvaccinated are permitted to work on site? Other States/Territories might provide a comparison

100%

and the question goes further, do we have thresholds and keep it there or do we have a responsibility to expand health to uphold our obligations re freedoms. For me, freedoms can only be impeded upon in the case of emergency for a limited period. Otherwise if it is too long, it is no longer an emergency but the new norm.
 
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Opine

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100%

and the question guys further, do we have thresholds and keep it there or do we have a responsibility to expand health to uphold our obligations re freedoms. For me, freedoms can only be impeded upon in the case of emergency for a limited period. Otherwise if it is too long, it is no longer an emergency but the new norm.
Assuming it hasn't been expressly excluded, Section 7 of Victirian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities sets out when those freedoms may be limited. I’m not sure whether the Charter was recently excluded for purposes of COVID related legislation. It’s rare to expressly exclude it; I’m aware of only two instances where the Charter has been excluded.
 

Crankyhawk

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I’m pro vaccination; having recently received my 3rd dose/booster.
However, a blanket State prohibition on fundamental freedom of movement and ability of unvaccinated to work away from home shouldn’t be permitted to persist indefinitely.

The question needs to be asked: what will constitute a reasonable threshold at which point the risk no longer justifies limiting the fundamental freedoms of those who’ve chosen not to freely acquiesce to being medicated?

IINM the relaxing of restrictions has already driven Victorian hospital system to near capacity? The critical question is:how much more severely overcapacity would the Vic health system likely become if those Victorian’s who remain unvaccinated are permitted to work on site? Other States/Territories might provide a comparison.
It’s not a question that I intend to consider.
I think these antivax should stfu and get the jab.
 

Crankyhawk

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100%

and the question guys further, do we have thresholds and keep it there or do we have a responsibility to expand health to uphold our obligations re freedoms. For me, freedoms can only be impeded upon in the case of emergency for a limited period. Otherwise if it is too long, it is no longer an emergency but the new norm.
It already is the new norm. This power creep ramped up after 9/11. Look to our treatment of illegal refugees.
I have less sympathy for antivax than refugees who have been deemed by non transparent process to be “terror risks” and are stateless as a result (genuine fear if returned but too high a risk to be accepted)
 

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TheBrownDog
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It already is the new norm. This power creep ramped up after 9/11. Look to our treatment of illegal refugees.
I have less sympathy for antivax than refugees who have been deemed by non transparent process to be “terror risks” and are stateless as a result (genuine fear if returned but too high a risk to be accepted)

I definitely agree that our governments have over reached in terms of power grab and the attitude of government employees has changed with that power grab.

boder force, the local copper etc think they are a paramilitary.
 

Crankyhawk

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Anyone who spells "freedom" that way should be sent on a one-way trip to North Korea
"freedumb" is not a misspell of "freedom"
it is a deliberately derogatory term used to highlight those who believe that their own special snowflake beliefs are more important
and do things which defy measures needed for public order
such as congregating in pandemic situation to rail against the existence of a pandemic and measures designed to contain it

and terrorist from the Aust government website
Australia's counter-terrorism laws | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au)


A terrorist act is an act, or a threat to act, that meets both these criteria:

  • it intends to coerce or influence the public or any government by intimidation to advance a political, religious or ideological cause.
  • it causes one or more of the following:
    • death, serious harm or danger to a person
    • serious damage to property
    • a serious risk to the health or safety of the public
    • serious interference with, disruption to, or destruction of critical infrastructure such as a telecommunications or electricity network.
Advocating, protesting, dissenting or taking industrial action are not terrorist acts where the person doing the activity does not intend to cause serious harm to a person or create a serious risk to public safety.

These freedumbers pose a serious risk to public safety through their actions.
 
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sorted

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you are in denial of the law. Stop being a freedumb terrorism supporter

As I said, you are in denial of evidence and frankly presenting as a bit unhinged.

Why are we discriminating against non-vaxxed when the infection rate is now much higher in double vaxxed?

1641672110273.png
 

Chief

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Why are we discriminating against non-vaxxed when the infection rate is now much higher in double vaxxed?
I don't think these are "per 100,000 vaxed vs per 100,000 unvaxed".

Just per 100,000 population.

That might be your mistake here. If 80-95% of people are vaccinated, this graph is not out of the ordinary.

We cannot tell because you've posted this graph with no reference.

If you're making these extraordinary claims like "vaccination doesn't work" you need to post proper evidence and references.
 

CM86

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Why are unvaccinated so scared of getting vaccinated?

Edit what source is that graph
I don't think these are "per 100,000 vaxed vs per 100,000 unvaxed".

Just per 100,000 population.

That might be your mistake here. If 80-95% of people are vaccinated, this graph is not out of the ordinary.

We cannot tell because you've posted this graph with no reference.

If you're making these extraordinary claims like "vaccination doesn't work" you need to post proper evidence and references.



You're both right, as usual.

I'm sure I've seen one of you correct sorted previously, on deliberately misrepresenting statistics in this exact same way.



--------------------------------------------------------------


This is the website.
https://www.covid.is/data

It's based on the total population of Iceland.

Iceland's population is around 368,792

1641697099355.png

1641697644851.png

https://www.covid.is/statistical-information-on-vaccination

Based on the "12 and older" statistics.

12 years and older fully vaccinated =~ 335,600 individuals. (Based on 91%).

12 years and older not fully vaccinated =~ 33,190





As of the 5th of January. The cases were:

12 years and older fully vaccinated - 5,158
12 years and older
not fully vaccinated - 2,755


Which means.
Out of 335,600 fully vaccinated 5,158 are infected. ------- 1.5% infected.
Out of the 33,190 not fully vaccinated 2,755 are infected. ------- 8.3% infected.



Sorted is deliberately spreading disinformation.
He has selectively taken very specific information, and presented it in a dishonest way.
Spending any time looking at that site, shows his position is wrong.



------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a screenshot of the graph he presented, but I've included the graph directly under it. Which shows the staggering difference between hospitalisations...




1641699078319.png
 

Clems Knee

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You're both right, as usual.

I'm sure I've seen one of you correct sorted previously, on deliberately misrepresenting statistics in this exact same way.



--------------------------------------------------------------

This is the website.
https://www.covid.is/data

It's based on the total population of Iceland.

Iceland's population is around 368,792

View attachment 1308101
View attachment 1308103
https://www.covid.is/statistical-information-on-vaccination

Based on the "12 and older" statistics.

12 years and older fully vaccinated =~ 335,600 individuals. (Based on 91%).

12 years and older not fully vaccinated =~ 33,190





As of the 5th of January. The cases were:

12 years and older fully vaccinated - 5,158
12 years and older
not fully vaccinated - 2,755


Which means.
Out of 335,600 fully vaccinated 5,158 are infected. ------- 1.5% infected.
Out of the 33,190 not fully vaccinated 2,755 are infected. ------- 8.3% infected.



Sorted is deliberately spreading disinformation.
He has selectively taken very specific information, and presented it in a dishonest way.
Spending any time looking at that site, shows his position is wrong.



------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a screenshot of the graph he presented, but I've included the graph directly under it. Which shows the staggering difference between hospitalisations...




View attachment 1308113

Spreading that kind of misinformation would be ban worthy on most social media sites, surely?
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
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Why are unvaccinated so scared of getting vaccinated?

Edit what source is that graph

I did a google image search and found an unreliable reference of an anti-vax website. I was sceptical but then followed the anti-vax website's source and found it was the Ministry of Health (reliable), which supports the Iceland's graph referenced by sorted


1641702385727.png



the reference for Iceland as per sorted graph is https://www.covid.is/data being The Directorate of Health and The Department of Civil Protection and Emergency Management are responsible for this website.


1641702886528.png



so for some reason your more likely to catch covid if you're vaccinated. Perhaps because you go out more or place one's self in riskier situations. but the hospitalisation graph speaks volumes.



This also suggests we should not discriminate against the unvaxxed
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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I don't think these are "per 100,000 vaxed vs per 100,000 unvaxed".

Just per 100,000 population.

That might be your mistake here. If 80-95% of people are vaccinated, this graph is not out of the ordinary.

We cannot tell because you've posted this graph with no reference.

If you're making these extraordinary claims like "vaccination doesn't work" you need to post proper evidence and references.

On review of the dtata, I think you're right on the per 100,000 reported with covid infection vs per 100,000 vax status
 
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