Covid-19 Mandatory vaccines

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Chief

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https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infec...d-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference.
The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
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sorted

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I don't think these are "per 100,000 vaxed vs per 100,000 unvaxed".

Just per 100,000 population.

That might be your mistake here. If 80-95% of people are vaccinated, this graph is not out of the ordinary.

That interpretation doesn't make sense. The point of a breakdown of cases by age and vaccination status per 100,000 population is to establish the relative prevalence within each of those populations. So for example, from the same source, you can see that the incidence of hospitalisation per 100,000 is higher for non-vaxxed but fairly steady. Whereas the hospitalisation rate for double vaxxed and boostered is lower but rising. 14 days incidence means it's a lagging indicator but almost like a moving average. It will be interesting to see how this looks when it is next updated on Wednesday.

1641702257375.png


We cannot tell because you've posted this graph with no reference.

If you're making these extraordinary claims like "vaccination doesn't work" you need to post proper evidence and references.

I did post the reference and didn't make extraordinary claims about vaccines.
 

sorted

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I did a google image search and found an unreliable reference of an anti-vax website. I was sceptical but then followed the anti-vax website's source and found it was the Ministry of Health (reliable), which supports the Iceland's graph referenced by sorted


View attachment 1308135


the reference for Iceland as per sorted graph is https://www.covid.is/data being The Directorate of Health and The Department of Civil Protection and Emergency Management are responsible for this website.


View attachment 1308140


so for some reason your more likely to catch covid if you're vaccinated. Perhaps because you go out more or place one's self in riskier situations. but the hospitalisation graph speaks volumes.



This also suggests we should not discriminate against the unvaxxed

Not sure what is going on here. I linked to my source when I first posted that chart. It's from the website of the Icelandic Directorate of Health and The Department of Civil Protection and Emergency Management. Then a day later people are saying I didn't reference my source and it's from an anti-vaxxer site.

WTF!!!
 

CM86

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Spreading that kind of misinformation would be ban worthy on most social media sites, surely?
Repeatedly.
You and so many others have called it out.
But he isn't the only one, and he gets plenty of support and distraction.



I messed up the stats by taking the per 100,000 as the total. But the point remains the same. Total population is is just over 350,000, so it's not that big a difference.

But anyone pretending to look at the graph as sorted and power raid are pretending to, are just spreading dangerous anti-vax misinformation.

If the overwhelming majority has been vaccinated, there's very few people unvaccinated, which means even if their infection fate is through the roof, their total number will be lower.


Group A consists of 1,000 people who are fully vaccinated
Group B consists of 10 people who are not fully vaccinated.

Group A has a small infection rate of 10%
Group B has a huge infection rate of 90%

BUT...

Group A will have 100 people infected.
Group B will have 9 people infected.


And it's that misrepresentation of numbers that keeps being abused by the anti-vax movement.

100/1,000 is much better than 9/10.
 

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Power Raid

TheBrownDog
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Not sure what is going on here. I linked to my source when I first posted that chart. It's from the website of the Icelandic Directorate of Health and The Department of Civil Protection and Emergency Management. Then a day later people are saying I didn't reference my source and it's from an anti-vaxxer site.

WTF!!!

I didn't see your reference but a google image search didn't link it to the reliable sources but an anti-vaxxer site. Fortunately they did reference the source, even if poorly referenced and as you know was the govt websites and govt data.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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Anyone who spells "freedom" that way should be sent on a one-way trip to North Korea
Because they will fit in well!


Ridiculous.

Do you even realise how absurd that is?

You know you could never actually justify that statement. You're just repeating some stupid talking point you've picked up from some right wing loudmouth.


Did you even Read Cranky's reply to you?
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
Sep 21, 2009
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That interpretation doesn't make sense. The point of a breakdown of cases by age and vaccination status per 100,000 population is to establish the relative prevalence within each of those populations. So for example, from the same source, you can see that the incidence of hospitalisation per 100,000 is higher for non-vaxxed but fairly steady. Whereas the hospitalisation rate for double vaxxed and boostered is lower but rising. 14 days incidence means it's a lagging indicator but almost like a moving average. It will be interesting to see how this looks when it is next updated on Wednesday.

View attachment 1308134



I did post the reference and didn't make extraordinary claims about vaccines.


It shouldn't be steady.
As more people become fully vaccinated, there should be an obvious decline in unvaccinated hospitalisations.
Because there is a decline in the total number of unvaccinated people.

If it's 'steady' or increasing it's clear evidence, again, against the misinformation you're trying to spread.
 

Crankyhawk

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have now reported Craig Kelly to terrorism hotline. Text as follows

To: National security hotline



Re: Craig Kelly (MP for Hughes) and actions which I believe to represent terrorism



Hi



I am writing because I am concerned that Mr Craig Kelly (MP for seat of Hughes, currently of United Australia Party) committed acts which fall under the definition of terrorism.



The Australian government website (Australia's counter-terrorism laws | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au)) defines a terrorist act as follows

A terrorist act is an act, or a threat to act, that meets both these criteria:

  • it intends to coerce or influence the public or any government by intimidation to advance a political, religious or ideological cause.
  • it causes one or more of the following:
    • death, serious harm or danger to a person
    • serious damage to property
    • a serious risk to the health or safety of the public
    • serious interference with, disruption to, or destruction of critical infrastructure such as a telecommunications or electricity network.
I believe Mr Kellys actions over the course of the pandemic meet these criteria.

Re the first point, he is trying to advance his own political party cause with coercion, via the use of unsolicited SMS messages and media releases. It is not possible to disable the receipt of these SMS messages due to the protected status political parties enjoy under the Spam Act (see Telstra messaging on same issue Blocking political text messages: what you need to know (telstra.com.au))



I believe the messages have a serious risk to the health and safety of the public

  • undermining public confidence in COVID vaccination by sending text messages that associated the vaccine with heart problems (ignoring the increase in heart problems amongst other issues that occur with unvaccinated patients getting COVID 19)
  • promoting use of non approved treatments – ivermectin in particular which risk misleading public into consuming this medication, particularly when it is mostly available in vetinary formulations
I also see that he is associating with the organisation Reignite Democracy Australia (RDA) who have been involved in protesting against the Victorian government’s public health measures (such as vaccination mandates). This group also are involved in actively undermining the vaccination program again posing a serious risk to the health or safety of the public (see their website Latest News | Reignite Democracy Australia)



I note that the counter terrorism law also states that

Advocating, protesting, dissenting or taking industrial action are not terrorist acts where the person doing the activity does not intend to cause serious harm to a person or create a serious risk to public safety.

However I believe that Mr Kelly’s actions do create a serious risk to public safety by undermining vaccinations.

I am seeking that Mr Kelly in particular be investigated for terrorism, as he has a profile (being a member of Parliament) which gives him a leadership role. This is also why I am not reporting Reignite Democracy Australia as terrorists as they do not have a leadership role which people are likely to follow, so I do not believe they provide the same level of “serious risk to public safety” even though their view on vaccination is similar.
 

Gavin Excell

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have now reported Craig Kelly to terrorism hotline. Text as follows

To: National security hotline



Re: Craig Kelly (MP for Hughes) and actions which I believe to represent terrorism



Hi



I am writing because I am concerned that Mr Craig Kelly (MP for seat of Hughes, currently of United Australia Party) committed acts which fall under the definition of terrorism.



The Australian government website (Australia's counter-terrorism laws | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au)) defines a terrorist act as follows

A terrorist act is an act, or a threat to act, that meets both these criteria:

  • it intends to coerce or influence the public or any government by intimidation to advance a political, religious or ideological cause.
  • it causes one or more of the following:
    • death, serious harm or danger to a person
    • serious damage to property
    • a serious risk to the health or safety of the public
    • serious interference with, disruption to, or destruction of critical infrastructure such as a telecommunications or electricity network.
I believe Mr Kellys actions over the course of the pandemic meet these criteria.

Re the first point, he is trying to advance his own political party cause with coercion, via the use of unsolicited SMS messages and media releases. It is not possible to disable the receipt of these SMS messages due to the protected status political parties enjoy under the Spam Act (see Telstra messaging on same issue Blocking political text messages: what you need to know (telstra.com.au))



I believe the messages have a serious risk to the health and safety of the public

  • undermining public confidence in COVID vaccination by sending text messages that associated the vaccine with heart problems (ignoring the increase in heart problems amongst other issues that occur with unvaccinated patients getting COVID 19)
  • promoting use of non approved treatments – ivermectin in particular which risk misleading public into consuming this medication, particularly when it is mostly available in vetinary formulations
I also see that he is associating with the organisation Reignite Democracy Australia (RDA) who have been involved in protesting against the Victorian government’s public health measures (such as vaccination mandates). This group also are involved in actively undermining the vaccination program again posing a serious risk to the health or safety of the public (see their website Latest News | Reignite Democracy Australia)



I note that the counter terrorism law also states that

Advocating, protesting, dissenting or taking industrial action are not terrorist acts where the person doing the activity does not intend to cause serious harm to a person or create a serious risk to public safety.

However I believe that Mr Kelly’s actions do create a serious risk to public safety by undermining vaccinations.

I am seeking that Mr Kelly in particular be investigated for terrorism, as he has a profile (being a member of Parliament) which gives him a leadership role. This is also why I am not reporting Reignite Democracy Australia as terrorists as they do not have a leadership role which people are likely to follow, so I do not believe they provide the same level of “serious risk to public safety” even though their view on vaccination is similar.
Bet you the house Kelly is vaccinated
 

Coolangatta

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Couple w***ers in the clinic yesterday. One looked like an older biker and the other looked like a meth head (neck tatts, hat, roid body) ready to rob the place. They were saying sh*t like, "look at the sheeple at the abattoir." "Show me your papers!" "It's just a flu." "McGowan's gonna lose a lot of voters."
 

sorted

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Re the first point, he is trying to advance his own political party cause with coercion, via the use of unsolicited SMS messages and media releases. It is not possible to disable the receipt of these SMS messages due to the protected status political parties enjoy under the Spam Act (see Telstra messaging on same issue Blocking political text messages: what you need to know (telstra.com.au))

So you're saying sending text messages and issuing media releases is 'coercion' but depriving people of their jobs and other aspects of normal life isn't?


 

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sr36

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Not sure what is going on here. I linked to my source when I first posted that chart. It's from the website of the Icelandic Directorate of Health and The Department of Civil Protection and Emergency Management. Then a day later people are saying I didn't reference my source and it's from an anti-vaxxer site.

WTF!!!

You know what's going on - you got it from an anti-vaxxer site, but it is also legitimite data - unless you are going to claim that you just happen to closely follow Icelandic cases. Let's face it, we all know how it works, anti-vax sites srawl the web really hard to try to find legitimite data that could possibly be slightly good news and then they get fed around the traps will nilly - all part of their business model and aims to keep their followers interested. It's legit government data that we're using here. It's like when there is a letter from a doctor - a medical professional - gold for anti-vax sites, which they turn into heaps of hits and heaps of cash.
 

Marcel Proust

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In the least surprising plot twist to all the nonsensical rules, Novak Djokovic has been given an exemption to compete in the Australian Open.

So there's approximately 600,000 people in Victoria who are unable to attend this tennis tournament because of vaccine mandate rules. Those same people are unable to get a job to provide for their families.

Whereas an overseas player with undeclared vaccine status can fly in and make $4.5 million in a couple of weeks for a swinging a racquet.

He has had covid twice why force him to get the vax?

Why are we picking on elite athletes
 

Crankyhawk

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So you're saying sending text messages and issuing media releases is 'coercion' but depriving people of their jobs and other aspects of normal life isn't?



One is government approved
One is not.
I don’t really care if vaccination mandates end but while they are there I will support it and demonise anti vaccination crowd as leaners.
Otherwise ethically if I was to oppose mandates then I’d have to do something about it and I cbf doing anything
 

sorted

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You know what's going on - you got it from an anti-vaxxer site, but it is also legitimite data - unless you are going to claim that you just happen to closely follow Icelandic cases. Let's face it, we all know how it works, anti-vax sites srawl the web really hard to try to find legitimite data that could possibly be slightly good news and then they get fed around the traps will nilly - all part of their business model and aims to keep their followers interested. It's legit government data that we're using here. It's like when there is a letter from a doctor - a medical professional - gold for anti-vax sites, which they turn into heaps of hits and heaps of cash.

If you had paid the least bit of attention I've been following countries that have reliable government data such as UK, Israel, Sweden. Iceland also has good data. But feel free to provide better sources.

But FYI, any free discussion of efficacy of vaccines has been banned on this forum. I'm happy to cite vaccine studies but not comment on them.
 

sr36

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If you had paid the least bit of attention I've been following countries that have reliable government data such as UK, Israel, Sweden. Iceland also has good data.

And cherry picking any anomaly you can find - which coincidentally are the same anomalies doing the rounds on anti-vax sites.
 

sorted

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Funny how liberal mp dickheads have no issue with lawyers. Judges and fed cops not being vaxxed only Novak upsets them

There'a about 49,000 Commonwealth employees in Victoria who are exempt from the vaccine mandate. Nothing to do with health but 'jurisdictional limitations'.

The Novak case got tied up in the media with the legal dispute but what about the common sense aspects? He's had Covid and recovered so most likely immune. Cases are going nuts in Victoria like everywhere so how is he an additional risk? How is anyone flying from overseas into Victoria an additional risk compared to a Victorian travelling from Warrnambool to Lakes Entrance?
 

Opine

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"freedumb" is not a misspell of "freedom"
it is a deliberately derogatory term used to highlight those who believe that their own special snowflake beliefs are more important
and do things which defy measures needed for public order
such as congregating in pandemic situation to rail against the existence of a pandemic and measures designed to contain it

and terrorist from the Aust government website
Australia's counter-terrorism laws | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au)


A terrorist act is an act, or a threat to act, that meets both these criteria:

  • it intends to coerce or influence the public or any government by intimidation to advance a political, religious or ideological cause.
  • it causes one or more of the following:
    • death, serious harm or danger to a person
    • serious damage to property
    • a serious risk to the health or safety of the public
    • serious interference with, disruption to, or destruction of critical infrastructure such as a telecommunications or electricity network.
Advocating, protesting, dissenting or taking industrial action are not terrorist acts where the person doing the activity does not intend to cause serious harm to a person or create a serious risk to public safety.

These freedumbers pose a serious risk to public safety through their actions.
This is way over the top.
Freedom of political expression by peaceful assembly is fundamental to our representative democracy. Granted, it’s necessary to temporarily rebalance and limit rights and freedoms during times of emergency, such as this. But their disruptions, as misguided and negligent and damaging and unlawful as they’ve arguably been, are part of a comparatively lesser price than we may otherwise pay for ongoing accountability and longer term protections against at least the very things you referred to above.
 
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Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
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There'a about 49,000 Commonwealth employees in Victoria who are exempt from the vaccine mandate. Nothing to do with health but 'jurisdictional limitations'.

The Novak case got tied up in the media with the legal dispute but what about the common sense aspects? He's had Covid and recovered so most likely immune. Cases are going nuts in Victoria like everywhere so how is he an additional risk? How is anyone flying from overseas into Victoria an additional risk compared to a Victorian travelling from Warrnambool to Lakes Entrance?
Not immune but immune to the current omicron strain likely.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
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This is way over the top.
Freedom of political expression by peaceful assembly is fundamental to our representative democracy. Granted, it’s necessary to temporarily rebalance and limit rights and freedoms during times of emergency, such as this. But their disruptions, as misguided and negligent and damaging and unlawful as they’ve arguably been, are part of a comparatively lesser price we may otherwise pay for ongoing accountability and longer term protections against at least the very things you referred to above.
Which is why I reported Craig Kelly as the terrorist and not the RDA group. Because Craig is in a leadership position while the RDA do not lead anyone.
 

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