Covid-19 Mandatory vaccines

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Chief

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https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infec...d-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference.
The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
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awaremind

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There seems to be substantial agreement now that we don't need lockdowns. I'm saying the argument for vaccine mandates is without foundation.
Most people especially the ones left on this site now it looks like the thought police have cleaned it out, are gonna sing whatever tune they are told. Not much free thought left. Good post btw.
 

pugsville

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The Unvaxxed 5% of the population is about half the covid Hospitalizations.

The rate of hospitalizations and covid ICU beds is undergoing a steppe raise.

If hat continues, and with covid now pretty rampant it's probably more likley than not, the Hospital system is going to be very very pressed,

If everybody was vaxxed that strian on the system due to covid would be about half.

It's not insignificant,

If the hospital system is over loaded there could be quite a few unnecessary deaths.

We may get out of this if the graphs tamper off , but we may not, the risks are real and quite large.

I don;t think vaccination should be mandatory, but If you are not, please consider it.

I know that vaccination is not without some risks, very very small as they are, but individual circumstances do vary, speak to your doctor. Make an informed responsible choice.
 

owen87

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Most people especially the ones left on this site now it looks like the thought police have cleaned it out, are gonna sing whatever tune they are told. Not much free thought left. Good post btw.

I believe the cleanout is because anti-science nutjobs have been spreading blatantly and deliberately false information for which they can provide no proof, that has been demonstrated to be harmful in the real world, with real world consequences.

You can 'think' whatever you like. You aren't necessarily allowed to use a private platform like BigFooty to share those thoughts with the world in an effort to convince people that your poorly sourced and supported information is correct.

Free thinking has become synonymous with ignoring all evidence that doesn't support your pre-determined conclusion, apparently.
 

sr36

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Most people especially the ones left on this site now it looks like the thought police have cleaned it out, are gonna sing whatever tune they are told. Not much free thought left. Good post btw.

You're justing singing a different tune that you've been told.

The anti-vax industry is raking in the dollars by persuading people not to vaccinate through misinformation, false interpretations of information and the cherry picking of the very occasional stat that looks good for them. It's an industry that results in increased death.

Good on bigfooty for no longer enabling this blood money to be earned and "sheeple" to be persuaded to not vaccinate.
 

Power Raid

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The Unvaxxed 5% of the population is about half the covid Hospitalizations.

The rate of hospitalizations and covid ICU beds is undergoing a steppe raise.

If hat continues, and with covid now pretty rampant it's probably more likley than not, the Hospital system is going to be very very pressed,

If everybody was vaxxed that strian on the system due to covid would be about half.

It's not insignificant,

If the hospital system is over loaded there could be quite a few unnecessary deaths.

We may get out of this if the graphs tamper off , but we may not, the risks are real and quite large.

I don;t think vaccination should be mandatory, but If you are not, please consider it.

I know that vaccination is not without some risks, very very small as they are, but individual circumstances do vary, speak to your doctor. Make an informed responsible choice.

there is a thing called triage that can fix this. Prioritise beds by vaccination status and suddenly problem solved.
 

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Most people especially the ones left on this site now it looks like the thought police have cleaned it out, are gonna sing whatever tune they are told. Not much free thought left. Good post btw.

Yeah, there's some weird stuff happening with the moderation. I suspect some crybabies have been getting in Chief's ear. The rules used to be about the conduct of the forum. Now certain views, even if supported by scientific or government data, are classed as 'misinformation' and liable to a ban.

There's a whole set of topics that can't be discussed freely if there's the threat of being cancelled. Even though there has been a few 180 degree turns on many of these things.

waning vaccine efficacy​
booster efficacy​
hospitalisation of vaxxed v non-vaxxed​
vaccine adverse effects​
should we be vaccinating age groups that are at low risk from the virus?​
should we be vaccinating those infected and recovered?​
hand sterilising​
wearing masks​
contact tracing​
policy for close contacts​

Then you get people claiming 'unvaxxed 5% of the population is about half the covid Hospitalizations'. Why are these peanuts exempted from the Bigfooty 'misinformation check'?
 

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You're justing singing a different tune that you've been told.

The anti-vax industry is raking in the dollars by persuading people not to vaccinate through misinformation, false interpretations of information and the cherry picking of the very occasional stat that looks good for them. It's an industry that results in increased death.

Good on bigfooty for no longer enabling this blood money to be earned and "sheeple" to be persuaded to not vaccinate.

I challenged you before on this claim of the 'anti-vax industry' making billions and you coughed up a fur ball and were embarrassed to continue. Why are you continue to rely on this delusionality?

The real villains in this story are Pfizer, BioNTech and Moderna making $1,000 profit every second while world’s poorest countries remain largely unvaccinated..
 

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sr36

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I challenged you before on this claim of the 'anti-vax industry' making billions and you coughed up a fur ball and were embarrassed to continue. Why are you continue to rely on this delusionality?

The real villains in this story are Pfizer, BioNTech and Moderna making $1,000 profit every second while world’s poorest countries remain largely unvaccinated..
I agree that governments should say sorry to Pfizer and Moderna and strip their patents for the good of the world. .

Pretty funny though that an antivaxxer is arguing that Pfizer are evil for not making sure more people take it by distributing their vaccine widely or cheaply enough...


So we've got an industry that possibly earns a billion dollars for social media sites. The industry obviously gets a cut for this. Then there are the direct marketing and endorsement deals, where a lot more money is made. Then throw in appearance fees and other kickbacks from right wing media outlets who are making huge Bucks courting the industry and its supporters. Then add merchandise sales. And that's before you get to the really big money of donations. And that's before you go into all the other spinoff sites and issues where you get antivaxxers to believe whatever you want - because as anti vaxxer site, you are a truth teller...
 
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sorted

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So we've got an industry that possibly earns a billion dollars for social media sites. The industry obviously gets a cut for this. Then there are the direct marketing and endorsement deals, where a lot more money is made. Then throw in appearance fees and other kickbacks from right wing media outlets who are making huge Bucks courting the industry and its supporters. Then add merchandise sales. And that's before you get to the really big money of donations. And that's before you go into all the other spinoff sites and issues where you get antivaxxers to believe whatever you want - because as anti vaxxer site, you are a truth teller...

Jesus TF Christ. Do we have to do this all over again?

I call misinformation on the people like yourself who conflate
  • opposition to all vaccines
  • opposition to Covid-19 vaccines
  • a nuanced, evidence based position on Covid-19 vaccines
  • opposition to vaccine mandates
and paint it all as 'anti-vaxxer'.

I can't remember any posts by anyone opposing all vaccines or arguing against the Covid-19 vaccines.

I have argued that the elderly and people with significant comorbidities should be strongly encouraged to take the Covid-19 vaccines and boosters. But I don't think people who have had Covid-19 and recovered should be routinely vaccinated. I don't think there is evidence that children should be routinely vaccinated.

I am strongly against people being coerced into being vaccinated by authoritarian measures.

I made a thread that has highlighted several promising candidates for treatments, starting with the head of Pfizer acknowledging that the vaccines won't be the complete answer to the pandemic.
 

HirdsTheWord

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There seems to be substantial agreement now that we don't need lockdowns. I'm saying the argument for vaccine mandates is without foundation.

I'm definitely pro choice. But that choice is a 2 way street, and with most things in life choices have consequences, this is what people need to accept by not getting vaccinated. You cant have it both ways.

Its very tounge in cheek for people to be pro their own choice, but not the choice of others, IE employers.
 

sr36

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Jesus TF Christ. Do we have to do this all over again?

I call misinformation on the people like yourself who conflate
  • opposition to all vaccines
  • opposition to Covid-19 vaccines
  • a nuanced, evidence based position on Covid-19 vaccines
  • opposition to vaccine mandates
and paint it all as 'anti-vaxxer'.

I can't remember any posts by anyone opposing all vaccines or arguing against the Covid-19 vaccines.

I have argued that the elderly and people with significant comorbidities should be strongly encouraged to take the Covid-19 vaccines and boosters. But I don't think people who have had Covid-19 and recovered should be routinely vaccinated. I don't think there is evidence that children should be routinely vaccinated.

I am strongly against people being coerced into being vaccinated by authoritarian measures.

I made a thread that has highlighted several promising candidates for treatments, starting with the head of Pfizer acknowledging that the vaccines won't be the complete answer to the pandemic.
I understand that you don't define yourself as an anti-vaxxer. But wjen someone cherry picks and spreads a graph from Iceland - population 360,000 that shows a slightly higher rate of covid amongst vaccinated- a graph that has been doing the rounds on anti-vaccine sites. I call you an anti-vaxxer as its akin to selecting data in your favour from a regional city of Australia and ignoring the rest of Australia's data to try to justify an opinion.

I don't disagree with you on some of those points. I don't think we need to mandate vaccine for those who have had covid recently, nor do I think that any form of vaccine mandate is currently appropriate. To me it was a persuasive tool that has worked well, but has run out of people who will be persuaded.

And of course treatment is important. It's never been one or the other. Except with anti vaxxers who are opposed to the covid vaccines and have thus desperately pushed miracle cures without supporting data.
 
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Major Colvin

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I was for the mandates late last year, but I'm unsure now and given the Omicron variant and whatever variant comes next, its drastically changed the whole landscape.

Unfortunately vaccinations don't appear to be reducing transmission of this variant much at all. Secondly, as a result of the variants, the vaccines are offering less protection and for less time. This shouldn't dissuade people from getting the vaccines available as the numbers bear it out, they greatly reduce risks of hospitalisation and death. I suppose the question will be, or does modelling show, how much the % of people vaxxed and boostered is alleviating strain on the health system. We some data now which shows that probably is having an effect, but its incomplete.

But the narrative of last year (which prevailed while many of us sat in endless lockdown to reduce transmission) that unvaxxed people are more dangerous to be around, no longer seems to hold water.

It's arguable (or I would argue) that the mandates have lead to many being vaxxed that otherwise would not have and thus, has reduced hospitalisations and deaths. But the vaccines don't seem to be offering any meaningful reduction in transmission (given it was developed for a different strain) so I'm not sure if the argument for mandates holds water. Definitely, restrictions on unvaxxed people entering venues and travelling domestically seems obsolete at this point.

Interested to know what the states on on transmission of Omicron in vaxxed vs unvaxxed people, but I'd be surprised if the difference is significant.
 
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sr36

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I was for the mandates late last year, but I'm unsure now and given the Omicron variant and whatever variant comes next, its drastically changed the whole landscape.

Unfortunately vaccinations don't appear to be reducing transmission of this variant much at all. Secondly, as a result of the variants, the vaccines are offering less protection and for less time. This shouldn't dissuade people from getting the vaccines available as the numbers bear it out, they greatly reduce risks of hospitalisation and death. I suppose the question will be, or does modelling show, how much the % of people vaxxed and boostered is alleviating strain on the health system. We don't have that data yet.

But the narrative of last year (which prevailed while many of us sat in endless lockdown to reduce transmission) that unvaxxed people are more dangerous to be around, no longer seems to hold water.

It's arguable (or I would argue) that the mandates have lead to many being vaxxed that otherwise would not have and thus, has reduced hospitalisations and deaths. But the vaccines don't seem to be offering any meaningful reduction in transmission (given it was developed for a different strain) so I'm not sure if the argument for mandates holds water. Definitely, restrictions on unvaxxed people entering venues and travelling domestically seems obsolete at this point.

Interested to know what the states on on transmission of Omicron in vaxxed vs unvaxxed people, but I'd be surprised if the difference is significant.

Agree with you. Plus, I think the mandates have done their job - persuaded the persuadable. You're left with hardcore not willing to vax now, so all the mandates are now doing is giving them a focal point to rally around.
 
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Mofra

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The real villains in this story are Pfizer, BioNTech and Moderna making $1,000 profit every second while world’s poorest countries remain largely unvaccinated..
The unvaxxinated are "big pharma's" best friends.

1642045343109.png
 

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Crankyhawk

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South Australia stats are a bit doolally but show fully vaccinated represent between 57% and 69% of those hospitalised. The 'one vaccine' did not keep those people safe.

Should I report you for misinformation?

And if 33 to 41% aren’t fully vaccinated (just the obverse of your statistics) and the unvaccinated in south Australia are only 12% of the population it shows that vaccination reduces your relative risk of hospitalisation.

Edit your attempt at misinformation was so predictable.
 

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And if 33 to 41% aren’t fully vaccinated (just the obverse of your statistics) and the unvaccinated in south Australia are only 12% of the population it shows that vaccination reduces your relative risk of hospitalisation.

I was replying to a post that claimed 'one vaccine' would keep patients safe. And that the unvaxxinated are "big pharma's" best friends (because it costs much more to treat an unvaccinated person).

The stats tell us that the fully vaccinated represent between 57% and 69% of those hospitalised in SA. So both these claims appear to be misinformation.
 

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