Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

Apr 23, 2016
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Due to their " constitutional and other legal protections " Sutton said

I'm reading the Public Health Order as we speak. Looks like it applies to Victoria Police.

COVID-19 Mandatory Vaccination (Workers) Directions (No 3).docx (dhhs.vic.gov.au)

Emergency service worker
(10) For the purposes of these directions:
(a) emergency service worker means a person who works in connection
with emergency services including but not limited to:
(i) the Victoria State Emergency Services;
(ii) Fire Rescue Victoria, the Country Fire Authority or any other
firefighting services;
(iii) the Emergency Services Telecommunications Authority;
(iv) aquatic safety services, including life saving services and marine
search and rescue services;
(v) paramedical services;
(vi) ambulance and paramedics services;
(vii) air ambulance and medical retrieval services (including Royal
Flying Doctor Service);
(viii) Victoria Police, protective services and police custody services;
or
(ix) essential infrastructure and essential services that are required
to maintain or protect human health, safety and wellbeing
(whether provided by a public or private undertaking), and
including maintenance and repair of such infrastructure.
 
I do appreciate you've taken it, applied no context, and run with it with absolutely 0 further research or investigation as to why that's the case.

those groups should in practical terms not enjoy those protections due to bulltish from federal vs state responsibility. It is irresponsible leadership by persons who are in those industries, they are putting themselves as some sort of special.
I would force them to be vaccinated or lose their jobs
stuff constitution, it is a dead ******* document.
 
Apr 23, 2016
30,510
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AFL Club
Essendon
those groups should in practical terms not enjoy those protections due to bulltish from federal vs state responsibility. It is irresponsible leadership by persons who are in those industries, they are putting themselves as some sort of special.
I would force them to be vaccinated or lose their jobs
stuff constitution, it is a dead ******* document.

Well yes, for example;

Vaccination in courts - Message from the Chief Justice | The Supreme Court of Victoria

Court Services Victoria (CSV), as the employer of court staff, is considering measures that will require staff who attend onsite to be vaccinated on the same basis as other authorised workers in Victoria. These will be subject to a process of consultation with staff.

Some employee awards require the consultation to occur prior to mandates being made.
 
Sorry the point I was trying to make is we cannot possibly know the long-term effects of vaccines, whether mRNA or adenovirus. I think its irresponsible to have an entire population take a new medicine who's long-term effects cannot be known until a long period of time has passed. It I cant understand why a government or business can make this mandatory for their staff or client base.

What if there is an unknowable side effect as with these or develops into something completely unforeseen?
Certainly a possibility.

I guess the logic is we can only fight the here and now and that's what everyone is concentrating on, but the risk must be there. Anyone that says otherwise, I'd like to ask them for lotto numbers.
 
I agree it's confusing. All the deaths relate to a positive Sars-cov-2 test then they have extrapolated the mortality rate to per 100,000. Divide these numbers below by 1,000 to get the percent (per 100) mortality rate.

View attachment 1263455
What this chart is showing is that for every 100,000 people in the country aged 80+, that 1513 died with a laboratory positive COVID 19 diagnosis within 60 days of their death.
This is not the same as saying "if 100,000 people over age of 80 get covid then 1513 will die within 60 days"
Otherwise it makes the data from the various world meters of covid deaths/ covid cases for UK statistically impossible (cumulative cases to 31/12/2020 2,488,780 and deaths 73,512 which by my maths is 3% case fatality rate across all age groups)
 

Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2018
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If you claim to be specific about legal matters you need to cite the legislation.

It would be awesome if the Vic government released the health advice about the 'real risk' of various measures. But it never happens.

How is a commonwealth employee less of a risk to health than a state employee? Or a private employee? Because this is what the Victorian legislation implies.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting a Commonwealth employee is less at risk. What you’re rightly highlighting is what can happen in a system in which, other than in the 30 to 40 areas of responsibility given exclusively to Commonwealth by the States, Fed and State governments operate somewhat independently of each other. Not perfect, but still good regardless such inconsistencies.

I would have liked to see mandatory vaccination on a national basis. It’s a very small individual sacrifice to make for benefit of all.
 
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Blue1980

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OK, let's agree that excluding Commonwealth employees is a pragmatic measure rather than about health.

I still don't see a case for mandatory vaccine for all workers. There's significant voluntary vaccine - 88.5% first dose Victoria. If the vaccines work there's no danger to the vaccinated of being infected from the non-vaccinated, or chance of getting sick.

The loss of individual freedoms 'to make benefit for all' can lead to some very dark places.

How about then if you don’t get vaxxed you need to be tested weekly?
 
Mortality rate for aged 80+ is 1,513 per 100,000 = 1.5%. The other age groups are significantly lower as below.

Then you have the caveats I mentioned on 'Covid deaths'.

View attachment 1263499
You are now seeking to deliberately mislead.
You are seeking to infer that case fatality rate of covid is at most 1.5% of over 80
 

Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
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OK, let's agree that excluding Commonwealth employees is a pragmatic measure rather than about health.

I still don't see a case for mandatory vaccine for all workers. There's significant voluntary vaccine - 88.5% first dose Victoria. If the vaccines work there's no danger to the vaccinated of being infected from the non-vaccinated, or chance of getting sick.

The loss of individual freedoms 'to make benefit for all' can lead to some very dark places.
My wife is a health worker. COVID infiltrated her workplace a few weeks ago. All were vaccinated. We’ve been in precautionary quarantine for last 10 days despite having tested negative. 20 odd infections thus far, and 1 death. I do see your point, I’m likewise all for freedom of choice and I annoyingly try promote need for entrenched Bill of Rights at every opportunity, but this has scared me. Maintaining health and safety enhances ability to continue pursuing and exercising freedom of choice.
 
So if all were vaccinated in your wife's workplace a few weeks ago when there was a positive test it doesn't really relate to the current situation when the vax rate is much higher and the rules have changed.

I can see the merit in healthcare and aged care workers being required to have the vaccine but beyond that it seems to be an unjustified imposition on human rights.
the rules haven't changed much in terms of the precautionary quarantine (it still exists, its just 7 days vs 14 in Vic if you don't live with the positive)

edit - the outcomes may be different; it would be interesting to know the double vaccination rate in that workplace.
 
What? How is it misleading?

I'm taking the numbers off the UK government website and doing my best to present them.
you are misrepresenting them as an incidence of people who test positive and then die as the chance of death IF you get COVID.
When it is statistically the chance of death from COVID amongst general population. While people are more interested in the question "if I get the disease THEN what are the chances that I die"
 
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Tom McDonald spoke out against mandatory vax too
You know everyone used to get vaccinated.There were a handful of anti-vaxxers who believed vaccines were dangerous I remember many years ago when after some years not vaccinating for measles a young teenage girl suffered from the brain damage syndrome that measles can do to some individuals she was seriously damaged.My point is I have never heard of measles vaccinations ever causing such a tragedy which makes me wonder why non vaxxers can't accept the fact that the odds are with the vaccinated by miles the risk is minimal the disease COVID19 is very easily caught and it kills . Why wouldn't anyone try to cut the odds????
 

Romeoh1

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Apr 27, 2021
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OK, let's agree that excluding Commonwealth employees is a pragmatic measure rather than about health.

I still don't see a case for mandatory vaccine for all workers. There's significant voluntary vaccine - 88.5% first dose Victoria. If the vaccines work there's no danger to the vaccinated of being infected from the non-vaccinated, or chance of getting sick.

The loss of individual freedoms 'to make benefit for all' can lead to some very dark places.
What are these dark places you seem fearful of?
 
I have explained how what you inferred is false. The numbers I showed are the mortality rate per 100 per death associated with Sars-Cov-2 and not the chance of death from Covid in the general population.
That last sentence doesn’t quite make sense.
I understand what it is (1500/100000 over age of 80 died of covid in that time period)
However nuffies who read this quickly go and quote it as “see only 1.5% of over 80s die of covid implying a much lower case fatality rate”
 
I'm not in favour of mandatory vaccines, but you've got to be missing something upstairs if you refuse to get one voluntarily given the current state of affairs.

Anti-vaxxers in particular (ie in relation to vaccines in general) are complete morons.
 
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