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Evolved1

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Jun 14, 2013
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If it's a mandate that's slightly different, though a government has a duty of care to protect its citizens. Letting unvaccinated people spread a damaging and potentially fatal disease in the interest of 'freedom' would be criminally irresponsible.
They certainly do, but the nature of those mandates can be debated.
 
Retail and other businesses didn't make a choice. It's a government mandate.

Pubs have signs up thongs = no entry.
Ditto singlets.
Footy shorts.

Golf clubs restrict what you can wear on the course.

Tennis courts restrict the shoes that you can wear on the courts.

Any business has every right to prevent you from entering their premises.
"Conditions of entry" are everywhere.
By entering you accept those conditions.

Business premises are private property.
 

Evolved1

Cancelled
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Jun 14, 2013
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Essendon
Pubs have signs up thongs = no entry.
Ditto singlets.
Footy shorts.

Golf clubs restrict what you can wear on the course.

Tennis courts restrict the shoes that you can wear on the courts.

Any business has every right to prevent you from entering their premises.
"Conditions of entry" are everywhere.
By entering you accept those conditions.

Business premises are private property.
None of that is applicable to government mandates. If the government mandates that you need two shots to get into a restaurant or shop, the business has no choice.
 

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None of that is applicable to government mandates. If the government mandates that you need two shots to get into a restaurant or shop, the business has no choice.

Businesses have those rules in order to comply with a mountain of govt or legal mandates.
A business may, for example, void their public liability insurance if certain things happen, so they put rules in place to cover their arses.

There is no escaping mandates.
Vaccine mandates are next level, but they are no different to millions of other mandates that we face everyday.
 
Dec 18, 2007
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That’s plain discrimination on a persons medical choices, completely different to choosing to take a vaccine

Legally, a business has to look after its staff and customers and for that reason they cannot knowingly expose their staff and customers to the virus, so to protect staff and customers they can exclude the unvaccinated.
 

TEDDY24INC

Club Legend
Apr 3, 2008
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Mt.evelyn
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Geelong
Legally, a business has to look after its staff and customers and for that reason they cannot knowingly expose their staff and customers to the virus, so to protect staff and customers they can exclude the unvaccinated.
When vaccinated contract and spread the virus it’s a moot point, flat out discrimination. Catching the virus from a vaccinated or unvaccinated person makes no difference, your vaccine is your protection. Really the only issue here would be employing someone who wasn’t vaccinated and they got extremely Ill from catching COVID at work, I’m sure a waiver would clear that up though given they chose not to be vaxed
 
Catching the virus from a vaccinated or unvaccinated person makes no difference
But you have a far, far lower chance of catching it, passing it on, and the next person has a far lower chance of passing it on and so on.
 

TEDDY24INC

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Apr 3, 2008
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Mt.evelyn
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Geelong
It's not discrimination. If you choose not to get vaccinated, you present a greater risk of spreading the disease. In the case of covid, it spreads easily and, even aside from the deaths, can be dehabilitating. If businesses want to protect their staff and customers from undue risk, that is their right.
There are studies out now showing the viral loads of vaxed and unvaxed are the same, the excuses for mandates are getting thinner and thinner
 
There are studies out now showing the viral loads of vaxed and unvaxed are the same, the excuses for mandates are getting thinner and thinner
No. Please don’t spread this sort of misinformation.



Although vaccinated people with a breakthrough infection are much less likely to become severely ill than unvaccinated, the new study shows that they can be carrying similar amounts of virus and could potentially spread the virus to other people. This study did not directly address how easily vaccinated people can get infected with SARS-CoV-2, or how readily someone with a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus.

“Our study does not provide information on infectiousness,” Michelmore said. “Transmission will be influenced by several factors, not just vaccination status and viral load.”
 
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So what if you’re vaccinated?
I don’t understand what this means.

Vaccination lowers your chance of contracting the virus. Developing the disease. Developing a serious case of the disease. Passing the virus on. Hospitalisation. Death.
 
I don’t understand what this means.

Vaccination lowers your chance of contracting the virus. Developing the disease. Developing a serious case of the disease. Passing the virus on. Hospitalisation. Death.

Teddy is basically saying that if you are vaccinated , you should feel safe, and not give a crap about ...
how much it spreads, how many other people catch it, how many people die.

It highlights the selfish approach that some people have taken throughout the pandemic. I still can't believe that some people have taken such a strong stance against simple things like wearing a mask.
 

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That's not true.

Initially the relative risk reduction (RRR) ie, the ratio of infection rates with and without a vaccine, was quoted at 95% for the Pfizer–BioNTech, 94% for the Moderna–NIH, 67% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford vaccines. It has become clear that over a few months this protection wanes to zero and sometimes even goes into negative territory.

The absolute risk reduction (ARR) is the difference between infection rates with and without a vaccine, but also considers the whole population and the likelihood you might be infected. At best, when the vaccines were at peak efficacy and in jurisdictions where there was a large number of cases the ARRs were 1·3% for AstraZeneca–Oxford, 1·2% for the Moderna–NIH, and 0·84% for the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccines.

If you have been vaccinated recently in a high case country there's about a 1% difference of catching the virus and passing it on. In Australia where there is very little infection and some people's immunity will already be waning the ARR will be miniscule.
So what you are arguing for is we get rid of lockdowns now that we are vaccinated as this will increase the potential attack rate and reduce the NNV (number needed to vaccinate to prevent one case)
Also your example is obviously stupid. What is the equivalent number needed to vaccinate to prevent measles given how rare it is?
 

TEDDY24INC

Club Legend
Apr 3, 2008
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Mt.evelyn
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I don’t understand what this means.

Vaccination lowers your chance of contracting the virus. Developing the disease. Developing a serious case of the disease. Passing the virus on. Hospitalisation. Death.
Exactly, you’re vaccinated so what’s the issue been around an unvaccinated person.. the vaccine does its job
 

TEDDY24INC

Club Legend
Apr 3, 2008
2,638
3,522
Mt.evelyn
AFL Club
Geelong
Teddy is basically saying that if you are vaccinated , you should feel safe, and not give a crap about ...
how much it spreads, how many other people catch it, how many people die.

It highlights the selfish approach that some people have taken throughout the pandemic. I still can't believe that some people have taken such a strong stance against simple things like wearing a mask.
What rubbish.. how does that correlate to me not caring how many people die.. You bringing up something like that is a cheap shot drawn to gauge emotion to your argument. Flip it, is 100 people losing their livelihoods and homes acceptable? Would only 1 COVID life taken be acceptable correlation to that?

The vaccine works and we have 90% double dose, mandate vulnerable settings like healthcare and aged care and move on. Mandating every worksite, retail, pubs, clubs is nothing more than spite by Andrews serving no purpose whatsoever. Masks, please don’t get me started on the outdoor mandates there.. I understand indoors but that was ridiculous
 
Aug 10, 2011
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You can look at right now which sits at 775000 which with a population of 332000000 = .233% which is nudging one in every four hundred americans dead with somewhere between 100 and 1000 dying every single day.
With the way things have gone the past couple of years, I cannot trust any figure. That still seems a small figure to me.


Once again


clogging up hospitals, spreading it more.
Not good enough.

If there was no pandemic, hospitals would still be clogged up, as they are run that way.
 
There seems to be substantial agreement now that we don't need lockdowns. I'm saying the argument for vaccine mandates is without foundation.
as i have said before i won't cry if vaccine mandates are removed, but it does make my job just that little bit easier.
 

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