Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

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With the way things have gone the past couple of years, I cannot trust any figure. That still seems a small figure to me.


Not good enough.

If there was no pandemic, hospitals would still be clogged up, as they are run that way.
we would have less ramping in ED, less ambulance ramping. SUre hospitals operate at 100% capacity normally, that is correct, but it is the time taken to wait in ED for beds which have really blown out for non covid patients now.
 
Aug 10, 2011
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we would have less ramping in ED, less ambulance ramping. SUre hospitals operate at 100% capacity normally, that is correct, but it is the time taken to wait in ED for beds which have really blown out for non covid patients now.
Ramping in the media is something that annoys me a bit.

Based on your post, you'd think it's a big deal? I've seen footage of supposed ramping at the Northern Hospital being used to demonstrate a huge problem.

I live near the Northern Hospital and travel past a lot when going to Epping Plaza. "Ramping" does not occur that often. Even when you see 4-5 ambos spilling outside the bay, there are almost always no paramedics in them.
 

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Ramping in the media is something that annoys me a bit.

Based on your post, you'd think it's a big deal? I've seen footage of supposed ramping at the Northern Hospital being used to demonstrate a huge problem.

I live near the Northern Hospital and travel past a lot when going to Epping Plaza. "Ramping" does not occur that often. Even when you see 4-5 ambos spilling outside the bay, there are almost always no paramedics in them.
the 4-5 ambos outside the bay (along the road between shops and the hospital) is in addition to the 8 already parked in the bay. Yes, the ambos are inside with the patients (unless they have covid, then we go out to see if they can go straight to ward - like I said it is currently easier for COVID patients, and even when we had a lot of covid it was still easier for covid +ve compared to non covid patients to get to ward for the most part)

the issue is more that ambo crews sitting inside ED waiting to offload = crews that cannot respond to new cases.
And Northern, while it was made public with a photo which showed 20 ambulances outside (12 queued on the road) actually handle ambulance ramping/ offload better than pretty much any other victorian ED

Ambulance patient transfers | Victorian Agency for Health Information (vahi.vic.gov.au)

you can select various hospitals to compare the median time it takes to get off ambulance, how many patients get off ambulance within 40 mins as a percentage, and also number of ambulances/ 3 month period
 
I did not make myself clear with what I've seen. I've not seen 8 ambos in the bay. 5 or less definitely almost always, maybe there's been 6 once.
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…and another time in April…

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As I said in my OP there could be a case for the mandate if it was a temporary measure designed to encourage vaccine uptake. But we are now at 87% fully vaxxed. We should be in the National Cabinet Final post-vaccination phase

Australia will seek to treat COVID-19 like any other infectious disease, with the goal to minimize cases without ongoing restrictions or lockdowns.​
I would suggest that making your job a little bit easier doesn't weigh up too well against thousands of people losing their ability to earn a living - many of them health professionals.
Don’t care. Nothing stopping them from being vaccinated. Choice is irrelevant
 
and after that the efficacy went negative ie you are more likely to get infected if you had been vaccinated.
This does not seem logical at all. It seems like an extraordinary claim. Any other jurisdictions able to replicate this?
 
This does not seem logical at all. It seems like an extraordinary claim. Any other jurisdictions able to replicate this?
The only possible link I can think of is changed behaviour (ie less compliant with social distancing masks etc once vaccinated- difficult to reliably measure)
 
Sep 15, 2007
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as i have said before i won't cry if vaccine mandates are removed, but it does make my job just that little bit easier.
I will cry. The pandemic aint going away without vaccine mandates. Look at whats happening in europe right now.

we need 100 percent vaccine mandates for those who aint ill. Its the only way to keep covid managable each winter and go back to our lives.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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As I said in my OP there could be a case for the mandate if it was a temporary measure designed to encourage vaccine uptake. But we are now at 87% fully vaxxed. We should be in the National Cabinet Final post-vaccination phase

Australia will seek to treat COVID-19 like any other infectious disease, with the goal to minimize cases without ongoing restrictions or lockdowns.​
I would suggest that making your job a little bit easier doesn't weigh up too well against thousands of people losing their ability to earn a living - many of them health professionals.
Thats only adults that percentage. Virus is running amok in kids. Plus it looks like the vaccine efficiencies fall dramatically by 6 motnhs which means the real effective vax rate is much lower. This is why virus is spreading like wildfire in europe. No kids vaccinated and the vaccines are wearing down. Boosters will need to be mandated. Hopefully only one booster. But if that doesnt work then it may need to be every year or even every 6 months.
 

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I will cry. The pandemic aint going away without vaccine mandates. Look at whats happening in europe right now.

we need 100 percent vaccine mandates for those who aint ill. Its the only way to keep covid managable each winter and go back to our lives.
You could be correct; perhaps something to use more in late autumn when numbers increase and relax from late spring? I see Portugal also now looking at bringing back some restrictions (I had hoped it would not be needed with their high vaccination rate and I think ongoing masks on public transport and vaccination passport)
 
Sep 15, 2007
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It depends on the gender, age group and how long since you had the vaccine. This is from a study in Sweden that showed vaccine effectiveness of BNT162b2 (Pfizer) against infection waned progressively from 92% at day 15-30 to 47% at day 121-180, from day 211 no effectiveness could be detected, and after that the efficacy went negative ie you are more likely to get infected if you had been vaccinated.


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Its a non peer review study for starters and notice how its a giant confidence interval? The conclusion from that chart is that it may not be effective from 200 days not that it has negative effectivess. There is zero means by which that would happen. notice how in the paper the authors arent advocating that their data suggests negative effectiveness?

and if this study is correct and vaccines wear off after 6 months do you know what the outcome of this should be for public health policy? Boosters need to be mandated every 6 months.
 
Here's a reasonably easy to read article on the phenomenon.

 
It's one of them. It can't go anywhere near explaining all of it. It's clear the vaccine effectiveness declines significantly over a number of weeks so it doesn't provide any protection from infection and appears to make those vaccinated more susceptible.
Or, the unvaccinated who died never get to be included in later stats?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2018
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I doubt the Federal government wants to overrule the states on mandatory vaccines but there's a few Senators putting pressure on and Morrison is making some noises in that direction.

Mr Morrison said on Thursday the government’s position was that vaccines should only be mandatory in “very specific circumstances”.​
“Vaccines only are mandatory in cases where you’ve got health workers that are working with vulnerable people. That’s what our medical advice has always been.”​

Under what mechanism are you thinking Cth might overrule States on this? I don’t think it can; at least not directly.
 

Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2018
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Victoria's vaccine mandate rules already don't apply to Commonwealth employees such as judges, lawyers, security guards and Federal police officers.

I believe the Feds could pass a law prohibiting medical discrimination and under section 109 of the constitution it would override state law.
Ah yes, ok, you mean insofar as it interfere’s with Fed responsibilities; you might be right. On the whole however insofar as it applies to non cth employees, I don’t think cth can stop States unless it legitimately indirectly interferes with an area of cth responsibility.
 
I cannot see any point at which one human who has been vaccinated is MORE susceptible to Covid than an identical person who has never had Covid or been vaccinated.

It defies all logic.
 
Just because you don't like it and don't understand it doesn't mean it's not true.

There's another factor. Immunity by recovery from Covid seems to be strong and long lasting. Whereas the immunity from the vaccine wanes substantially over a few months until it has zero effectiveness then tends heavily negative.

That would suggest you are better off to have the vaccine , then contract Covid.
 
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