Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

[yodellinhank]

I cannot see any point at which one human who has been vaccinated is MORE susceptible to Covid than an identical person who has never had Covid or been vaccinated.

It defies all logic.

Not all logic. The figures aren't based on identical humans. Vaccinated could expose themselves (and now be allowed to expose themselves) to higher risk. And the early vaccinated would have been those who were at most risk of exposure (I'm especially thinking vocationally).

Longer time since vaccination plus higher exposure to a virus that is more prevalent in the community, the stats could show that those are the people getting infected. Lies and statistics.

 

[Crankyhawk]

No.

Week 45.

Cases per 100,000 for fully vaxxed 40-49 age group was 2,111. Cases per 100,000 for unvaxxed was 933. You are more than twice as likely to be infected if you are vaxxed than if you are not.

The deaths in that age group was 40 unvaxxed vs 38 vaxxed. Not really a factor.

is that a single cherry picked week?

edit - yep very cherry picked presentation of statistics. From the same source

hospitalisation rate/ 100000 vaccinated = 8.8 vs 33.3 for 100000 unvaccinated
death rate/ 100000 vaccinated = 0.6 vs 2.3 at 28 days, and 0.8 vs 3.1 at 60 days for that same age group.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Just because you don't like it and don't understand it doesn't mean it's not true.

There's another factor. Immunity by recovery from Covid seems to be strong and long lasting. Whereas the immunity from the vaccine wanes substantially over a few months until it has zero effectiveness then tends heavily negative.

there doesn't appear to be evidence for this claim (unfortunately)

Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 Among Adults Hospitalized with COVID-19–Like Illness with Infection-Induced or mRNA Vaccine-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Immunity — Nine States, January–September 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Study discussed hear shows effectiveness to protect from effectiveness could drop to 40% after a year …that’s just the first two jabs ..and that of course is not hospitalisations which remain high protection

Another COVID-19 booster shot will likely be needed, experts say

Data from the federal Health Department shows 284,000 people aged over 16 have received the booster, which is just under half the 577,000 people currently eligible for the shot.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Seeds]

Victoria's vaccine mandate rules already don't apply to Commonwealth employees such as judges, lawyers, security guards and Federal police officers.

I believe the Feds could pass a law prohibiting medical discrimination and under section 109 of the constitution it would override state law.

feds will get thumped at the election if that happened. The majority want vaccine mandates. They are pissed off at all the free riders putting constraints on our lives.

 

[Gavin Excell]

feds will get thumped at the election if that happened. The majority want vaccine mandates. They are pissed off at all the free riders putting constraints on our lives.

Exactly
And all these "freedom fighters" getting on the Kelly Palmer bandwagon
Looking forward to their 3% vote across the country

 

[Seeds]

Europe is currently waking up to the fact that you need to ban the unvaccinated from all non essential activities. Its the only way To keep the virus at bay. They are learning the hard way. So will the usa this winter.

morrison is a complete dumbarse for not seeing what is happening in europe.

 

[pc79]

Europe is currently waking up to the fact that you need to ban the unvaccinated from all non essential activities. Its the only way To keep the virus at bay. They are learning the hard way. So will the usa this winter.

morrison is a complete dumbarse for not seeing what is happening in europe.

Banning the unvaccinated will not stop the virus spreading. 1 jab, 2 jabs, 3 jabs, 4...5 jabs, 6 jabs, 7 jabs, more.. How many will everyone need for society to even function again somewhat normally?

Lockdowns, segregation of society will do nothing to stop it. Europe has lived with this for 20 months and it's now a part of daily life. London is open, regardless of vaccination status. Travel is also open for the most part - more difficult for the unvaxd.

COVID zero is a fantasy. We have to learn to live with it. Identify preventative strategies and alternative treatments. Mandating vaccinations is ridiculous now more evidence is circulating suggesting vaccine efficacy wanes and could possibly leave the vaccinated more susceptible to infection of COVID and other illness.

What about the covid recovered? They have antibodies that arguably (more evidence required) provide greater long term protection than the artificial vaccine. What about these people? Common sense would suggest this should be sufficient, but no.. they need a jab too.. why?

This is now a beaurocraric nightmare where pollies have doubled/tripled down on the mantra of the 'vaccination is the only way out'. They're too deep and I can't see them going back on this maniacal blinkered strategy.

We're still very early in the life cycle of this problem and no-one has the answers of what the right strategy is right now, however mandatory vaccinations and vaccinating children are not it.

 

[Seeds]

Banning the unvaccinated will not stop the virus spreading. 1 jab, 2 jabs, 3 jabs, 4...5 jabs, 6 jabs, 7 jabs, more.. How many will everyone need for society to even function again somewhat normally?

Lockdowns, segregation of society will do nothing to stop it. Europe has lived with this for 20 months and it's now a part of daily life. London is open, regardless of vaccination status. Travel is also open for the most part - more difficult for the unvaxd.

COVID zero is a fantasy. We have to learn to live with it. Identify preventative strategies and alternative treatments. Mandating vaccinations is ridiculous now more evidence is circulating suggesting vaccine efficacy wanes and could possibly leave the vaccinated more susceptible to infection of COVID and other illness.

What about the covid recovered? They have antibodies that arguably (more evidence required) provide greater long term protection than the artificial vaccine. What about these people? Common sense would suggest this should be sufficient, but no.. they need a jab too.. why?

This is now a beaurocraric nightmare where pollies have doubled/tripled down on the mantra of the 'vaccination is the only way out'. They're too deep and I can't see them going back on this maniacal blinkered strategy.

We're still very early in the life cycle of this problem and no-one has the answers of what the right strategy is right now, however mandatory vaccinations and vaccinating children are not it.

sorry to be the bringer of the bad news. Dont shoot the messanger. No one is going for zero covid anymore. Its all about stopping hospitals from being overrun. And to do that it looks like the unvaccinated have to be locked out of society. These people can ofcourse stop being so f*** selfish and just get vaccinated. No one is forcing them to be unvaccinated.

and it may very well be a vaccine every year. That may well be the world we live in now. Lets hope its not needed but it might be. Start coming to terms with it.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Taking a vaccine every year is a small price to pay when you consider the alternative ..surely. Most have been doing it with the flu vaccine for years anyway. Europe going back into some form of lockdowns thanks mainly to unvaxxed..

Europe’s wild rules for the unvaxxed

As Covid-19 cases explode across Europe, individual nations are cracking down on the unvaccinated in a desperate attempt to prevent a health catastrophe.

www.news.com.au

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

COVID zero is a fantasy.

No one in the whole country(world) is suggesting going back to that

 

[Seeds]

Europe thought a world with 80 percent adults vaccinated and the remaining unvaccinated being free to do what they want would work.

it turns out that was incorrect. Anti vaxers needs to face reality.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Europe thought a world with 80 percent adults vaccinated and the remaining unvaccinated being free to do what they want would work.

it turns out that was incorrect. Anti vaxers needs to face reality.

Is it my imagination that it always seems to be the same people who....
Don't like masks.
Don't like vaccines.
Don't like being traced by government apps.
Don't like socially isolating.

I can only assume that people who tick all those boxes ....
Like spreading viruses.
Are paranoid sooks.
Love breathing their "mate's " phlem.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Banning the unvaccinated will not stop the virus spreading. 1 jab, 2 jabs, 3 jabs, 4...5 jabs, 6 jabs, 7 jabs, more.. How many will everyone need for society to even function again somewhat normally?

Lockdowns, segregation of society will do nothing to stop it. Europe has lived with this for 20 months and it's now a part of daily life. London is open, regardless of vaccination status. Travel is also open for the most part - more difficult for the unvaxd.

COVID zero is a fantasy. We have to learn to live with it. Identify preventative strategies and alternative treatments. Mandating vaccinations is ridiculous now more evidence is circulating suggesting vaccine efficacy wanes and could possibly leave the vaccinated more susceptible to infection of COVID and other illness.

What about the covid recovered? They have antibodies that arguably (more evidence required) provide greater long term protection than the artificial vaccine. What about these people? Common sense would suggest this should be sufficient, but no.. they need a jab too.. why?

This is now a beaurocraric nightmare where pollies have doubled/tripled down on the mantra of the 'vaccination is the only way out'. They're too deep and I can't see them going back on this maniacal blinkered strategy.

We're still very early in the life cycle of this problem and no-one has the answers of what the right strategy is right now, however mandatory vaccinations and vaccinating children are not it.

Vaccination was primarily about keeping covid cases from overwhelming our hospital system. Covid zero would have been a fine 'plus' to that, but the logic went that more vaccinated meant more people with less harsh reactions to the virus and therefore less in ICU and less hospitalisations overall.

Can you see this?

 

[pc79]

Vaccination was primarily about keeping covid cases from overwhelming our hospital system. Covid zero would have been a fine 'plus' to that, but the logic went that more vaccinated meant more people with less harsh reactions to the virus and therefore less in ICU and less hospitalisations overall.

Can you see this?

Of course, and it has seemingly done its job in the first instance. So we should in theory be reopening if the vaccine does what it's supposed to do....

Reference to zero covid is re the states who have and continue to lock down their borders. WA, SA, QLD hoping for some covid free utopia. Of course this is an impossibility, but they're clinging on and no doubt any outbreak of what? 5 cases? will result in more snap lockdowns/border closures. It's time to move on.

 

[Clems Knee]

Of course, and it has seemingly done its job in the first instance. So we should in theory be reopening if the vaccine does what it's supposed to do....

Reference to zero covid is re the states who have and continue to lock down their borders. WA, SA, QLD hoping for some covid free utopia. Of course this is an impossibility, but they're clinging on and no doubt any outbreak of what? 5 cases? will result in more snap lockdowns/border closures. It's time to move on.

We in WA are in a CoVid free utopia. Our lives have been much less restricted than anywhere else in the world. We are also totally aware that we need to open up the borders.
But that will allow the virus in, and its bound to get in by itself anyway. This is why it is imperative that as many people as possible get vaccinated as soon as possible.
The fact that a small proportion of vaccinated people can still get and transmit the disease, and a small proportion of them can get really sick, means that we need the highest numbers of people vaccinated possible before opening the borders.
The problem is that the crazies who refuse are in great enough numbers and concentrated together so that they may provide a seeding point for the virus. They are potentially endangering everyone.

 

[Jafa]

Covid zero.

Sounds like a drink.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I wasn't trying to hide anything. I gave sources for all the data I presented. We are here because I showed evidence that efficacy against infection in Sweden went negative after a period - then Chief asked if this had happened in other jurisdictions.

Whatever the reasons, in Sweden and the UK the vaccinated are getting infected at a higher rate than the non-vaccinated. It makes a nonsense of mandatory vaccines on the basis that the vaccinated are at risk from the non-vaccinated.

the risk the unvaccinated contribute is excessive occupation of hospital beds which is remediable by getting vaccinated. By scumming up hospital beds they contribute to bed access issues. Unlike most bed access issues getting a vaccine is a relatively easy part.

Unvaccinated are leaner scum. We vaccinated lifters have to compensate for the unvaccinated by choice (we are ok with the truly medically unvaccinatable)

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Of course, and it has seemingly done its job in the first instance. So we should in theory be reopening if the vaccine does what it's supposed to do....

Reference to zero covid is re the states who have and continue to lock down their borders. WA, SA, QLD hoping for some covid free utopia. Of course this is an impossibility, but they're clinging on and no doubt any outbreak of what? 5 cases? will result in more snap lockdowns/border closures. It's time to move on.

Yeah, I think that once states reach four fifths (or 80-90%) vaccinated population, as most states are now, they really can't keep restrictions up unless some variant worse than delta pops up. Which is a possibility.

But covid will become endemic and we will have to live with it, no matter what.

 

[Opine]

Yeah, I think that once states reach four fifths (or 80-90%) vaccinated population, as most states are now, they really can't keep restrictions up unless some variant worse than delta pops up. Which is a possibility.

But covid will become endemic and we will have to live with it, no matter what.

It’s a question of proportionality; scope of risk if it comes to fruition v measures taken to avoid that risk. The vaccine works and vaccination rates are excellent hence restrictions have gradually and proportionally reduced. Vic Gov has been gutsy in the way it’s gone about it; thankfully and rightfully so.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We've been round this loop before. I highlighted how smoking is much more of a burden on health services. Heavy drinkers and the obese who "scum up" many hospital beds also have remediable conditions.

Are there actually bed shortages? Current 'Covid' cases in hospital in NSW is 192 and falling, capacity is about 20,700.

NSW is looking to remove all restrictions on the non-vaccinated on 15 Dec or when NSW reaches 95% double vaccination, whichever comes first. So clearly, the NSW government used the mandate as a temporary measure to encourage vaccine uptake. It does not view the non-vaccinated as a risk to bed access.

Overall it might be, but how many people are in intensive care "this week " due to smoking?

 

[Crankyhawk]

We've been round this loop before. I highlighted how smoking is much more of a burden on health services. Heavy drinkers and the obese who "scum up" many hospital beds also have remediable conditions.

Are there actually bed shortages? Current 'Covid' cases in hospital in NSW is 192 and falling, capacity is about 20,700.

NSW is looking to remove all restrictions on the non-vaccinated on 15 Dec or when NSW reaches 95% double vaccination, whichever comes first. So clearly, the NSW government used the mandate as a temporary measure to encourage vaccine uptake. It does not view the non-vaccinated as a risk to bed access.

and those things you quoted are issues but are a lot harder to fix than 2 needles.

im not in NSW, im in VIC, and I quote what happens in my hospital, not that you care as its just "anecdotal"

 

[Opine]

‘…How much risk do you really face if you’re vaccinated?…’

So you’re vaccinated. How much risk do you really face now?

The risks of COVID-19 transmission among the fully vaccinated are greatly reduced, but by how much?

www.theage.com.au

 

[Seeds]

We've been round this loop before. I highlighted how smoking is much more of a burden on health services. Heavy drinkers and the obese who "scum up" many hospital beds also have remediable conditions.

Are there actually bed shortages? Current 'Covid' cases in hospital in NSW is 192 and falling, capacity is about 20,700.

NSW is looking to remove all restrictions on the non-vaccinated on 15 Dec or when NSW reaches 95% double vaccination, whichever comes first. So clearly, the NSW government used the mandate as a temporary measure to encourage vaccine uptake. It does not view the non-vaccinated as a risk to bed access.

And you constantly ignore the fact that the virus is infectious whilst smoking isnt. the only reason covid deaths have been kept at bay is cos of lockdowns and now vaccines. Smoking often takes 20 plus years to lead to hospitalization whilst with the virus it can be in 7 days. if we had no lockdowns and no vaccines then corona would of killed 100-300 thousand in australia in the past two years.

plus smokers are put to the back of the queue in hospitals anyway and smoking is slowly being made illegal.

 

[Crankyhawk]

And you constantly ignore the fact that the virus is infectious whilst smoking isnt. the only reason covid deaths have been kept at bay is cos of lockdowns and now vaccines. Smoking often takes 20 plus years to lead to hospitalization whilst with the virus it can be in 7 days. if we had no lockdowns and no vaccines then corona would of killed 100-300 thousand in australia in the past two years.

plus smokers are put to the back of the queue in hospitals anyway and smoking is slowly being made illegal.

Most hospitals are smoke free, which raises some issues when patients aren’t there by choice (mental health assessment orders) and they want to engage in activity which is still legal and used as a stress coping mechanism.