Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

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Lol following science is a lemming.

Half the hospitalisations are the unvaxed despite 95 percent of the population being vaxed. Maths is your friend.

Yep, i'm not going to be a sheep and eat grass. I'm going to eat that broken glass instead and laugh at those stupid sheep.
 
Health Professionals are the last people who should take extra risks and working with Covid.
Surely some of their patients have pre-existing conditions that mean they are in the most vulnerable category.
Yes they (the patients are). However if the alternative is no health care worker looking after them...
(thats not doomsaying thats the real choice that the hospitals are choosing between)

currently we don't yet have known positive work and our close contacts do daily RAT for 6 days pre shift before starting work.
 
In the least surprising plot twist to all the nonsensical rules, Novak Djokovic has been given an exemption to compete in the Australian Open.

So there's approximately 600,000 people in Victoria who are unable to attend this tennis tournament because of vaccine mandate rules. Those same people are unable to get a job to provide for their families.

Whereas an overseas player with undeclared vaccine status can fly in and make $4.5 million in a couple of weeks for a swinging a racquet.
I think if they show recent covid infection that qualified on the vaccination mandate link
though not 100% sure as I don't need to really give a crap being triple vaxxed
 

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From that article, it suggests that people without symptoms present a small risk of being infectious. But apparently the narrative of vaccines has moved on from preventing infection (and never was) and is now about preventing serious illness.

Omicron should be a game changer in how we approach the virus - it's mostly about the same severity as a cold. But governments and the media seem to be fixated by 'cases'. A case being a +ve test for Sars-Cov-2 without the requirement for any symptoms. Queues for tests are kilometers long. Vital services are short staffed due to isolation rules.

Are the measures against Omicron are having more impact than the illness?
it is not mostly a cold. Its mostly like flu (because people can be asymptomatic with flu) with body aches, headaches, fever in most that do end up contacting doctors (a bit like what people who contact doctors with flu tend to have) in the vaccinated population. And like flu it can really be bad for people with comorbidities even if vaccinated (but comorbidities are not modifiable while vaccination status is)

test queue at one of the PCR test sites (airport west) seem much shorter today than the last week, maybe because we aren't having +ve RAT people having to queue for a test.

isolation rules are being wound back for health care. But in Victoria it is difficult as there is still likely a reasonable amount of existing delta in hospital settings so it becomes difficult to know which covid can be treated lightly and which with more concern

i have heard that omicron is similar in severity to original covid, its only less severe when compared to delta (which was predominant strain)
 
The Victorian Government has all but lifted restrictions, suggesting current overall Vaccination % may be scientifically capable of dealing with the potential risk of future transmission as we know it. Despite unprecedented current infection rates, the relaxing of mandatory lockdown and close-contact redefinitions seem to support that inference. Yet, the smaller percentage of Victorians who've chosen not to be vaccinated remain prohibited from working away from home.

Temporarily leave aside that employers and employees may make private arrangements regarding vaccination between themselves. Other States/Territories don't appear to be imposing the same level of restriction as Victoria, but for those industries in which it seems objectively justifiable.

So, what's the reasoning and proportional justification behind what seems to be a continuing blanket prohibition, imposed by the Victorian Labour Government, on employees who've chosen not to be vaccinated, working away from home?
the current hospitalisation burden which would be made worse by increased movement of the unvax.

solution is simple.

get forking vaccinated.
 
But here we are discussing the finer points of the rule for one foreign celebrity sportsman - when the whole basis of the rule is bogus in a number of ways and has a continued impact on the lives of hundreds of thousands of Victorians.

Why are we mandating vaccines for people who probably have immunity due to naturally acquired infection and recovery?
From the UK

A hospital consultant has told the Health Secretary he refused to be vaccinated because he has immunity from being "antibody" positive after exposure to the virus.​
Steve James, a consultant anaesthetist at King's College Hospital in London, who has worked in the ICU since early 2020 treating Covid patients, told Sajid Javid why he did not believe in vaccination.​
Mr James told the PA news agency he did not believe Covid-19 was causing "very significant problems" for young people, adding that his patients in the ICU had been "extremely overweight" with multiple other co-morbidities.​


Why are we discriminating against non-vaxxed when the infection rate is now higher in double vaxxed? I have previously cited numbers from the UK and Sweden. This is from Iceland that has one of the highest vax rates in the world.

View attachment 1307723


Nah I don’t care. Tell them shut up and be vaccinated.
 
I'm pro vax and proudly had my third jab this week

however I don't believe vax should be mandatory, if the experts who approve vaccines won't give the covid jabs unconditional approvals or provisional approvals.

I also believe making vaccines mandatory is counter productive as creates conflict resulting in people seeking exemptions.

Personally I would deal with the issue through rebates and medicare surcharge and in triage allocating beds and ventilators to the vaxxed in priority over the unvaxxed.
 

Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2018
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the current hospitalisation burden which would be made worse by increased movement of the unvax.

solution is simple.

get forking vaccinated.
I’m pro vaccination; having recently received my 3rd dose/booster.
However, a blanket State prohibition on fundamental freedom of movement and ability of unvaccinated to work away from home shouldn’t be permitted to persist indefinitely.

The question needs to be asked: what will constitute a reasonable threshold at which point the risk no longer justifies limiting the fundamental freedoms of those who’ve chosen not to freely acquiesce to being medicated?

IINM the relaxing of restrictions has already driven Victorian hospital system to near capacity? The critical question is:how much more severely overcapacity would the Vic health system likely become if those Victorian’s who remain unvaccinated are permitted to work on site? Other States/Territories might provide a comparison.
 
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I’m pro vaccination; having recently received my 3rd dose/booster.
However, a blanket State prohibition on fundamental freedom of movement and ability to work away from home shouldn’t be permitted to persist indefinitely. The question needs to be asked: what will constitute that threshold at which point the risk no longer justifies limiting the fundamental freedoms of those who’ve chosen not to freely acquiesce to receiving medication?

IINM the relaxing of restrictions has already driven Vic hospital system to capacity. The critical question is:how much more severely overcapacity would the Vic health system likely become if those Victorian’s who remain unvaccinated are permitted to work on site? Other States/Territories might provide a comparison

100%

and the question goes further, do we have thresholds and keep it there or do we have a responsibility to expand health to uphold our obligations re freedoms. For me, freedoms can only be impeded upon in the case of emergency for a limited period. Otherwise if it is too long, it is no longer an emergency but the new norm.
 
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Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2018
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100%

and the question guys further, do we have thresholds and keep it there or do we have a responsibility to expand health to uphold our obligations re freedoms. For me, freedoms can only be impeded upon in the case of emergency for a limited period. Otherwise if it is too long, it is no longer an emergency but the new norm.
Assuming it hasn't been expressly excluded, Section 7 of Victirian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities sets out when those freedoms may be limited. I’m not sure whether the Charter was recently excluded for purposes of COVID related legislation. It’s rare to expressly exclude it; I’m aware of only two instances where the Charter has been excluded.
 
I’m pro vaccination; having recently received my 3rd dose/booster.
However, a blanket State prohibition on fundamental freedom of movement and ability of unvaccinated to work away from home shouldn’t be permitted to persist indefinitely.

The question needs to be asked: what will constitute a reasonable threshold at which point the risk no longer justifies limiting the fundamental freedoms of those who’ve chosen not to freely acquiesce to being medicated?

IINM the relaxing of restrictions has already driven Victorian hospital system to near capacity? The critical question is:how much more severely overcapacity would the Vic health system likely become if those Victorian’s who remain unvaccinated are permitted to work on site? Other States/Territories might provide a comparison.
It’s not a question that I intend to consider.
I think these antivax should stfu and get the jab.
 
100%

and the question guys further, do we have thresholds and keep it there or do we have a responsibility to expand health to uphold our obligations re freedoms. For me, freedoms can only be impeded upon in the case of emergency for a limited period. Otherwise if it is too long, it is no longer an emergency but the new norm.
It already is the new norm. This power creep ramped up after 9/11. Look to our treatment of illegal refugees.
I have less sympathy for antivax than refugees who have been deemed by non transparent process to be “terror risks” and are stateless as a result (genuine fear if returned but too high a risk to be accepted)
 

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It already is the new norm. This power creep ramped up after 9/11. Look to our treatment of illegal refugees.
I have less sympathy for antivax than refugees who have been deemed by non transparent process to be “terror risks” and are stateless as a result (genuine fear if returned but too high a risk to be accepted)

I definitely agree that our governments have over reached in terms of power grab and the attitude of government employees has changed with that power grab.

boder force, the local copper etc think they are a paramilitary.
 
Anyone who spells "freedom" that way should be sent on a one-way trip to North Korea
"freedumb" is not a misspell of "freedom"
it is a deliberately derogatory term used to highlight those who believe that their own special snowflake beliefs are more important
and do things which defy measures needed for public order
such as congregating in pandemic situation to rail against the existence of a pandemic and measures designed to contain it

and terrorist from the Aust government website
Australia's counter-terrorism laws | Attorney-General's Department (ag.gov.au)


A terrorist act is an act, or a threat to act, that meets both these criteria:

  • it intends to coerce or influence the public or any government by intimidation to advance a political, religious or ideological cause.
  • it causes one or more of the following:
    • death, serious harm or danger to a person
    • serious damage to property
    • a serious risk to the health or safety of the public
    • serious interference with, disruption to, or destruction of critical infrastructure such as a telecommunications or electricity network.
Advocating, protesting, dissenting or taking industrial action are not terrorist acts where the person doing the activity does not intend to cause serious harm to a person or create a serious risk to public safety.

These freedumbers pose a serious risk to public safety through their actions.
 
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As I said, you are in denial of evidence and frankly presenting as a bit unhinged.

Why are we discriminating against non-vaxxed when the infection rate is now much higher in double vaxxed?

View attachment 1307981
Why are unvaccinated so scared of getting vaccinated?

Edit what source is that graph
 
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Why are we discriminating against non-vaxxed when the infection rate is now much higher in double vaxxed?
I don't think these are "per 100,000 vaxed vs per 100,000 unvaxed".

Just per 100,000 population.

That might be your mistake here. If 80-95% of people are vaccinated, this graph is not out of the ordinary.

We cannot tell because you've posted this graph with no reference.

If you're making these extraordinary claims like "vaccination doesn't work" you need to post proper evidence and references.
 
Sep 21, 2009
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Why are unvaccinated so scared of getting vaccinated?

Edit what source is that graph
I don't think these are "per 100,000 vaxed vs per 100,000 unvaxed".

Just per 100,000 population.

That might be your mistake here. If 80-95% of people are vaccinated, this graph is not out of the ordinary.

We cannot tell because you've posted this graph with no reference.

If you're making these extraordinary claims like "vaccination doesn't work" you need to post proper evidence and references.



You're both right, as usual.

I'm sure I've seen one of you correct sorted previously, on deliberately misrepresenting statistics in this exact same way.



--------------------------------------------------------------


This is the website.
https://www.covid.is/data

It's based on the total population of Iceland.

Iceland's population is around 368,792

1641697099355.png

1641697644851.png

https://www.covid.is/statistical-information-on-vaccination

Based on the "12 and older" statistics.

12 years and older fully vaccinated =~ 335,600 individuals. (Based on 91%).

12 years and older not fully vaccinated =~ 33,190





As of the 5th of January. The cases were:

12 years and older fully vaccinated - 5,158
12 years and older
not fully vaccinated - 2,755


Which means.
Out of 335,600 fully vaccinated 5,158 are infected. ------- 1.5% infected.
Out of the 33,190 not fully vaccinated 2,755 are infected. ------- 8.3% infected.



Sorted is deliberately spreading disinformation.
He has selectively taken very specific information, and presented it in a dishonest way.
Spending any time looking at that site, shows his position is wrong.



------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a screenshot of the graph he presented, but I've included the graph directly under it. Which shows the staggering difference between hospitalisations...




1641699078319.png
 

Clems Knee

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 15, 2009
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You're both right, as usual.

I'm sure I've seen one of you correct sorted previously, on deliberately misrepresenting statistics in this exact same way.



--------------------------------------------------------------

This is the website.
https://www.covid.is/data

It's based on the total population of Iceland.

Iceland's population is around 368,792

View attachment 1308101
View attachment 1308103
https://www.covid.is/statistical-information-on-vaccination

Based on the "12 and older" statistics.

12 years and older fully vaccinated =~ 335,600 individuals. (Based on 91%).

12 years and older not fully vaccinated =~ 33,190





As of the 5th of January. The cases were:

12 years and older fully vaccinated - 5,158
12 years and older
not fully vaccinated - 2,755


Which means.
Out of 335,600 fully vaccinated 5,158 are infected. ------- 1.5% infected.
Out of the 33,190 not fully vaccinated 2,755 are infected. ------- 8.3% infected.



Sorted is deliberately spreading disinformation.
He has selectively taken very specific information, and presented it in a dishonest way.
Spending any time looking at that site, shows his position is wrong.



------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a screenshot of the graph he presented, but I've included the graph directly under it. Which shows the staggering difference between hospitalisations...




View attachment 1308113

Spreading that kind of misinformation would be ban worthy on most social media sites, surely?
 

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