Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

[pc79]

What alternative approach?

Lock away vulnerable groups from the rest of the population?

Ultimately, we'll all be infected at some stage, if not already. It's inevitable. The trend has been that each variant has been more mild than the previous. The current variant is nothing more than a bad cold for most. The previous delta variant was around 6x more deadly than the flu. Let's hope the trend continues.

Never ending boosters in my opinion is not the answer, so yes, alternative medications possibly? Repurposed medications, or a combination of many.

We shout down the idea of repurposing safe drugs in support of a medical emergency drug where huge profits are being made, and proper clinical trials were not completed.

Re the earlier comment re: ivermectin studies continue in its effectiveness against COVID as an antiviral (pre treatment). What is true about ivermectin is the inventors won Nobel prizes for medicine after its invention. It is a safe, anti parasitic drug approved by the FDA. It has been administered to over 2bn people globally.

 

[pc79]

Currently with the Omicron strain breaking through vaccines, the benefit of the vaccine is really all about the initial exposure to covid - better off having it through a vaccine than the virus so your immune system kicks in more effectively.

In terms of mandates, I've got no interest in forcing people to make the safer smarter decision of vax for their own sake. For me, mandates should depend on hospital overload. If people not being vaxed is going to cause too much stress on hospitals which results in deaths to others from either the virus or lesser access for other conditions, longer response time for paramedics, etc, as well as people having to live longer with chronic repairable conditions due to loss of elective surgery, then I don't have any qualms with the mandates. But I haven't been following the hospital impact side of the pandemic closely enough to have much idea about excess death and increased suffering resulting from increased hospitalisation amongst the unvaxed cohort.

I do think it'd be nice if covid recoverees were exempted from any mandates as they're currently the safest in terms of both spread and hospitalisation (unless they acquired organ damage or a chronic condition within their recovery) but probably now unworkable with self tests.

All fair and valid points. At the height in NSW 234 ICU beds were taken up (out of 760, but could stretch to around 1,000) with covid patients. Whether the primary reason for ICU admission was Covid itself, or other reasons with a positive covid test being incidental we don't know. I'd be more inclined to look at those ventilated being the more likely number in ICU with covid being the primary contributor (as covid is a pneumonic virus primarily affecting the lungs and airways). At its worst, Sept 21, 123 were ventilated

 

[sr36]

All fair and valid points. At the height in NSW 234 ICU beds were taken up (out of 760, but could stretch to around 1,000) with covid patients. Whether the primary reason for ICU admission was Covid itself, or other reasons with a positive covid test being incidental we don't know. I'd be more inclined to look at those ventilated being the more likely number in ICU with covid being the primary contributor (as covid is a pneumonic virus primarily affecting the lungs and airways). At its worst, Sept 21, 123 were ventilated

We're not necessarily going to see the impact from those individual numbers. If a hospital system is overloaded they're going to have to be less cautious with patients and raise the bars for admission and lower the bars for release, with the potential to bring about a series of flow on negative medical effects, not just covid related. Cities that have been really smashed by a covid wave that has maxed out the medical system have seen excess death not just from a covid spike, but also other deaths rising during that wave. No idea where Australian cities are at in terms of that, but a high vax rate is going to help. The full medical impact is really hard to measure, which is why epidemiology is a thing.

 

[sr36]

Ultimately, we'll all be infected at some stage, if not already. It's inevitable. The trend has been that each variant has been more mild than the previous. The current variant is nothing more than a bad cold for most. The previous delta variant was around 6x more deadly than the flu. Let's hope the trend continues.

Each variant hasn't been more mild. Delta is considered to be more dangerous than the variants that preceded it.

With influenza, a more evolved disease in its human guise, each year we see new strains, sometimes they're less dangerous than their predecessors, sometimes more dangerous.

But we'll see immunity contininue to rise to help make most strains have less of an impact.

The theory that does point to it continuing to be less severe is that Omicron has evolved and become dominant because its much much more transmissible - bonding more strongly with cells in our airways, but the mutations that bring this about make it bond less effectively in cells in our lungs, giving less instances of pneumonia. There should be a tendency for mutations to become better at bonding with our airway cells as this increases spread and becoming ideal at this may continue to make them less suited to giving us pneumonia, thus milder strains.

The spanner in the works is that as immunity grows, it'll be mutations that can avoid immunity that will become dominant, not necessarily the best at attaching to airway cdlls- that could by a very different spike protein that has an increased capacity to bond in lung cells and thus cause pneumonia.

 

[Pessimistic]

So, your vaccinated status will expire 6 months after your last jab.

Go early on th 3rd and the clock is reset. If you are a low risk group, it seems sensible to not rush to do it unless a more dangerous mutation comes about.
So plan to have two a year rather than 4 if you rush in after 3 months due to ‘encouragement’

This is from th point of view of someone with no axe to grind eithe way

 

[Mofra]

So, your vaccinated status will expire 6 months after your last jab.

Go early on th 3rd and the clock is reset. If you are a low risk group, it seems sensible to not rush to do it unless a more dangerous mutation comes about.
So plan to have two a year rather than 4 if you rush in after 3 months due to ‘encouragement’

This is from th point of view of someone with no axe to grind eithe way

The policy still seems to miss the nuance for people who recently have had Covid - should they have an extension to their booster schedule? Some of the comments by experts/CHOs suggest yes. If you get Covid 5 months after your 2nd shot, it seems a little redundant to go out and get your booster a couple of weeks after having Covid.

 

[Pie eyed]

people who say "Ba ha ha "" have no credibility.

Can't even spell it correctly...

 

[sr36]

The policy still seems to miss the nuance for people who recently have had Covid - should they have an extension to their booster schedule? Some of the comments by experts/CHOs suggest yes. If you get Covid 5 months after your 2nd shot, it seems a little redundant to go out and get your booster a couple of weeks after having Covid.

I agree, but it's probably for practical reasons. If they want to make it mandatory, bringing prior covid into the equation probably makes it too hard, particularly with RAT, but I don't think mandates will last that much longer, so soon I don't think it will be relevant. There will be those who choose to stay update with their shots and those who don't, much like what currently occurs with the flu.

 

[Mofra]

I agree, but it's probably for practical reasons. If they want to make it mandatory, bringing prior covid into the equation probably makes it too hard, particularly with RAT, but I don't think mandates will last that much longer, so soon I don't think it will be relevant. There will be those who choose to stay update with their shots and those who don't, much like what currently occurs with the flu.

I suspect states will still enforce their own mandates even if the Feds lift restrictions. We might have the situation in the future of WA having mandates and no other state having population-wide mandates.
There will be some industries that require ongoing up to date vaccinations too e.g. healthcare workers and aged care workers.

 

[sr36]

I suspect states will still enforce their own mandates even if the Feds lift restrictions. We might have the situation in the future of WA having mandates and no other state having population-wide mandates.
There will be some industries that require ongoing up to date vaccinations too e.g. healthcare workers and aged care workers.

Yeah true. Which is the point I suppose of why they haven't made covid count - bloody hard to check if claim of covid case is legit. Plus in Europe where covid has given 6 months exemption from vaccine mandates, there's been lots of stories of intentional covid catching in preference to a vaccine.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Vaccine Injury in kids seems a significant problem

 

[Chief]

Vaccine Injury in kids seems a significant problem

No it doesn't you absolute nuffie.

 

[CD Xbow]

Child abuse? Parents failed to get their infant vaccinated, now in ICU with first case of diphtheria in NSW in a century Toddler diagnosed with first case of diphtheria of the throat in NSW in a century It's a really horrible disease and vaccines eliminate it. There is still a significant mortality with diphtheria despite modern treatment, I really hope the kiddie pulls through.

Antivax morons are dangerous, to themselves, to others and the community.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Child abuse? Parents failed to get their infant vaccinated, now in ICU with first case of diphtheria in NSW in a century Toddler diagnosed with first case of diphtheria of the throat in NSW in a century It's a really horrible disease and vaccines eliminate it. There is still a significant mortality with diphtheria despite modern treatment, I really hope the kiddie pulls through.

Antivax morons are dangerous, to themselves, to others and the community.

Diptheria is normally given as part of the standard vaccine program, and the same shot immunises against Tetanus, Whooping Cough, Hepatitus , Polio and others.
I wonder if the parents think its OK for their child to go and play on the Freeway. Might as well.

 

[Northalives]

Diptheria is normally given as part of the standard vaccine program, and the same shot immunises against Tetanus, Whooping Cough, Hepatitus , Polio and others.
I wonder if the parents think its OK for their child to go and play on the Freeway. Might as well.

The triple antigen vaccine was given to primary school children since the mid 1950's and now, it is a pre-requisite for being able to enrol your children into primary school.

Any f****ng moron that does not vaccinate their kids should be thrown into jail and their children placed in care - it is child abuse. The ant-vax morons led by Pentecostals and social media "influencers" should be proscribed as terrorists and terrorist organisations.

I know that it seems over the top but people have not seen children with whooping cough; they don't know what diphtheria does to human beings nor have they any idea of the effect of poliomyelitis on individuals and society.

The morons that parade around our streets holding up bull s**t signs about their "rights", many of them would not be alive if their parents and grandparents weren't immunised as children. F**k 'em!

 

[Northalives]

Child abuse? Parents failed to get their infant vaccinated, now in ICU with first case of diphtheria in NSW in a century Toddler diagnosed with first case of diphtheria of the throat in NSW in a century It's a really horrible disease and vaccines eliminate it. There is still a significant mortality with diphtheria despite modern treatment, I really hope the kiddie pulls through.

Antivax morons are dangerous, to themselves, to others and the community.

Could not agree more and yes, it IS child abuse.

 

[ferball]

The theory that does point to it continuing to be less severe is that Omicron has evolved and become dominant because its much much more transmissible - bonding more strongly with cells in our airways, but the mutations that bring this about make it bond less effectively in cells in our lungs, giving less instances of pneumonia. There should be a tendency for mutations to become better at bonding with our airway cells as this increases spread and becoming ideal at this may continue to make them less suited to giving us pneumonia, thus milder strains.

The spanner in the works is that as immunity grows, it'll be mutations that can avoid immunity that will become dominant, not necessarily the best at attaching to airway cdlls- that could by a very different spike protein that has an increased capacity to bond in lung cells and thus cause pneumonia.

Isn't the bolded the way our airways and coronaviruses (and other viruses I spose) have evolved with each other over hundreds of millions of years?

The upper respiratory tract doesn't have great sterilising immunity does it? We conmstantly get reinfected by minor colds but those reinfections only last a short time but still long enough to spread the infection. Won't that ease the selection pressure that's otherwise in favour of any mutation that avoids immunity? Because its less necessary when immunity isn't that effective against short term infection.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not a vaccination issue directly, but another example about what happens when you "make up" your own medical advice.

12 cult members arrested after death of eight-year-old girl in Australia

Members of church group believed child would be ‘healed by god’

au.news.yahoo.com

 

[Pessimistic]

Another push to get a forth shot, or a third if not already

Read between the lines they admit the shots they have aren’t keeping up. It’s like getting last years flu jab.

So if low risk group, OK to wait for better vaccines which aren’t far away

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/covid19-subvariant-ba-5-exploding-but-only-in-early-stages-health-minister-warns/news-story/0b40a384f16973a7de9d74c92eb58f3d

 

[Chief]

Another push to get a forth shot, or a third if not already

Read between the lines they admit the shots they have aren’t keeping up. It’s like getting last years flu jab.

This is nothing shocking or abnormal.

New strains will emerge. We may need this as an annual shot like the flu shot.

 

[Pessimistic]

This is nothing shocking or abnormal.

New strains will emerge. We may need this as an annual shot like the flu shot.

I’m just noting if you read between the lines, you can wait and get a shot with better immunity. I suppose they need to use up the current stock before everyone twigs

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I’m just noting if you read between the lines, you can wait and get a shot with better immunity. I suppose they need to use up the current stock before everyone twigs

If you are reading between the lines, and you aren't a medical expert, you are making stuff up using your imagination.

 

[Pessimistic]

If you are reading between the lines, and you aren't a medical expert, you are making stuff up using your imagination.

I’m not your enemy. Like I said, last years flu shot.

 

[Chief]

I’m just noting if you read between the lines, you can wait and get a shot with better immunity. I suppose they need to use up the current stock before everyone twigs

It's been developed?

 

[rank and file]

T

This is nothing shocking or abnormal.

New strains will emerge. We may need this as an annual shot like the flu shot.

Thing is we don't need annual flu shots.
Not mandatory.
My guess is the next version of the vax will be in pill form.
The science behind that will be because of a worldwide syringe shortage.
Used up billions in the last few years.