Mankad: Fair game or poor form?

Mankad

  • Within the spirit - with a warning

    Votes: 60 62.5%
  • Within the spirit - without a warning

    Votes: 26 27.1%
  • Not in the spirit in any case

    Votes: 10 10.4%

  • Total voters
    96

Zach Package

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#76
My undestanding of the rule is that it has to be done before he enters his delivery stride - I would argue that in this case the bowler had entered it and therefore Butler was entitled to do what he did and should have been given not out as a result.
was that a legitimate delivery stride though?

To me that looks like he elects to pull out as he passes the stumps and just plants his front foot as normal out of habit
 

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western royboy

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#77
was that a legitimate delivery stride though?

To me that looks like he elects to pull out as he passes the stumps and just plants his front foot as normal out of habit
I would argue very strongly that he deinitely entered the delivery stride and as a result it should have been given not out.
 
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#79
Law 42.15 – Bowler attempting to run out non-striker before delivery
law 42.15 shall be replaced by the following:
the bowler is permitted, before releasing the ball and provided he
has not completed his usual delivery swing
, to attempt to run out the
non-striker. Whether the attempt is successful or not, the ball shall not
count as one of the over. if the bowler fails in an attempt to run out the
non-striker, the umpire shall call and signal dead ball as soon possible.
Where is that from - my understanding was the term was commencement of delivery stride
 
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#81
This is from the MCC Laws of the Game - i take it from prior mentioned post - that perhaps this is or will be changed?


15. Bowler attempting to run out non-striker before delivery

The bowler is permitted, before entering his delivery stride, to attempt to run out the non-striker. Whether the attempt is successful or not, the ball shall not count as one of the over.
If the bowler fails in an attempt to run out the non-striker, the umpire shall call and signal Dead ball as soon as possible.
 
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#85
The ICC laws supersede the MCC laws for international matches. If Senanyake did that to Buttler in a domestic game it would have been not out.
Fair enough - personally the MCC rule is daft. It means a batsmen can wait for the back foot to hit the ground and be 2-3 metres out of his ground before the batsmen plays.

I've no issue with Senanyake - I also think the quaint notion of warning is ridiculous as well. If you are a batsmen and cock up - you are out.
 

masai

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#86
What's the problem ?.

Bowler gives a verbal warning to the batsman & umpire that the non striker is leaving their crease early.

Then the bowler comes into bowl, non striker leaves crease before delivery, bails taken off, batsman is run out.

Blame the dill of a batsman.

An alternative to Mankad could be for the batsman not to be given out, but 10 runs be taken off the score.
 

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kickazz

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#88
I appreciate the thoughts surrounding warnings, and not trying to deceive batsman but only doing it when they are cheating, etc. But this all creates grey areas, the whole delivery stride thing, etc is another thing requiring judgement.

These days I play indoor, and as you may know, the Mankad is a much more 'legit' method of dismissal there (though some still carry on about it). In indoor, you are indeed allowed to complete an entire delivery action, hold onto the ball, break the stumps and they are out. Now I understand this is a little sneaky, and can often get a novice out who isn't really trying to 'cheat'. But the great thing about it is that it is black and white, and consistent with all other run-out/stumping interpretations. And the best part about it is, as a batsman all you have to do is train yourself to watch, and to not leave the crease until you actually see the ball in the air no longer connected to the bowler, and you will never have a problem.

In normal cricket though you bat for longer and the concentration can sometimes wane a bit, so I kind of like the idea of the warning.

What about T20, particularly those final over byes? I for one would not have a problem with an un-warned Mankad during that part of the game - everyone knows what's going going on there, the batsman is not being careless, he is trying to get to the other end as quickly as he can, so fair game to Mankad I recon.
 

Glacier

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#90
Not really a Mankad but I once played in a game where a batsmen was run out when he walked down the pitch to get his hat after it fell off whilst talking a single
Pretty ordinary stuff
 

western royboy

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#91
Not really a Mankad but I once played in a game where a batsmen was run out when he walked down the pitch to get his hat after it fell off whilst talking a single
Pretty ordinary stuff
That is the definition of ordinary and a resaon that the "spirit of the game" was entered as the preamble to the laws a few years back. The Captain should have called him back. But alas talk to Dean Jones about that.
 

Glacier

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#92
That is the definition of ordinary and a resaon that the "spirit of the game" was entered as the preamble to the laws a few years back. The Captain should have called him back. But alas talk to Dean Jones about that.
It was the opposing captain that was responsible
He was the keeper, took the return and flicked it to first slip, the batsmen walked back to get his hat and the guy called for the ball back and ran him out
First time I've ever seen a cricket match nearly turn into an all in
 
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#93
Not really a Mankad but I once played in a game where a batsmen was run out when he walked down the pitch to get his hat after it fell off whilst talking a single
Pretty ordinary stuff
Not only ordinary - but also an incorrect decision.

You can only be run out attempting a run. Once the runs is completed (assuming it was completed). You are allowed to go collect a bat, garden the pitch, find your hat, have a chat to your teammate.

It is why Dean Jones runout many moons ago was wrong. He wasn't attempting a run - simply walking off the ground.
 
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#94
I appreciate the thoughts surrounding warnings, and not trying to deceive batsman but only doing it when they are cheating, etc. But this all creates grey areas, the whole delivery stride thing, etc is another thing requiring judgement.

These days I play indoor, and as you may know, the Mankad is a much more 'legit' method of dismissal there (though some still carry on about it). In indoor, you are indeed allowed to complete an entire delivery action, hold onto the ball, break the stumps and they are out. Now I understand this is a little sneaky, and can often get a novice out who isn't really trying to 'cheat'. But the great thing about it is that it is black and white, and consistent with all other run-out/stumping interpretations. And the best part about it is, as a batsman all you have to do is train yourself to watch, and to not leave the crease until you actually see the ball in the air no longer connected to the bowler, and you will never have a problem.

In normal cricket though you bat for longer and the concentration can sometimes wane a bit, so I kind of like the idea of the warning.

What about T20, particularly those final over byes? I for one would not have a problem with an un-warned Mankad during that part of the game - everyone knows what's going going on there, the batsman is not being careless, he is trying to get to the other end as quickly as he can, so fair game to Mankad I recon.
Never had a problem with a makad in indoor -everyone knows the rules. Plus if the batsmen is cheating to make his ground, it can cost him 5 runs - stiff shit.

There is also a notable difference in indoor. The ball is always live. Whereas in cricket - the ball is dead pretty much once it hits the keepers gloves up until the bowler starts his run up.
 

eddiesmith

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#95
It was the opposing captain that was responsible
He was the keeper, took the return and flicked it to first slip, the batsmen walked back to get his hat and the guy called for the ball back and ran him out
First time I've ever seen a cricket match nearly turn into an all in
Playing against Brad Haddin?
 

crownie

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#96
In normal cricket though you bat for longer and the concentration can sometimes wane a bit, so I kind of like the idea of the warning.
FWIW my dad told me a few times when i was young if you do it to tell the batsman thats a warning and the next time you are out.
 
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#97
Everytime I watch the mankad, I think Butler's bat is still behind the line when Senanayake pulls up. Butler just keeps walking and his bat is dragged out of his crease. I don't have a problem with a mankad, but I think I prefer the MCC rule. As soon as you enter your delivery stride, I don't think you can then stop and run the batsman out.

As for Cook complaining about the 'spirit of the game'. There's a very simple solution. Keep your bat well behind the line until he's bowled the ball. It's similar to no balls, there is such a small advantage from getting your foot really close to the line that it's not worth the risk of a no ball.

Also, there's no need for a warning. It creates too much grey area. Do you have to warn each batsman individually in each innings? Do you have to wait to 'catch' them out before you can warn them?

It's also ridiculous for the umpire to check with Matthews whether he wants to withdraw the appeal. Either we do that for every wicket or we do it for none. If a captain wants to withdraw an appeal, then he can approach the umpire himself to call the batsman back, it's not the umpire's role to check with him.
 

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#98
That is the definition of ordinary and a resaon that the "spirit of the game" was entered as the preamble to the laws a few years back. The Captain should have called him back. But alas talk to Dean Jones about that.
That's the day that showed while Richards may have been a great cricketer he was no sportsman.
 

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#99
Not only ordinary - but also an incorrect decision.

You can only be run out attempting a run. Once the runs is completed (assuming it was completed). You are allowed to go collect a bat, garden the pitch, find your hat, have a chat to your teammate.

It is why Dean Jones runout many moons ago was wrong. He wasn't attempting a run - simply walking off the ground.

I believe that only applies when it's a noball. In other situations it's a matter of whether it's a dead ball yet.
 
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