Why don't you just come out and say you hate poor people?
Society/Culture Marco Deng. Is this type of thing becoming “normal” in Melbourne?
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Yes.
Except they're not, you're engaging in extreme hyperbole. There are hundreds of arrests of minorities each day that don't raise calls of persecution.
"Today, the peak age-crime involvement (the age group with the highest age-spe-What media can you supply with more substantiated facts?
cific arrest rate) is younger than 25 for all crimes reported in the FBI’s UCR pro-
gram except gambling. Even the median age (50% of all arrests occurring
among younger persons) is younger than 30 for most crimes. "
Ulmer and Steffensmeier, "The Age and Crime Relationship"
So you know me do you champ, I am of course assuming you reside in an area with a large Sudanese immigrant population, Yes or No?
You could have at least gone to post 22 in this thread and responded to me where I said and I quote:
it's not about racial vilification, the simple fact is that people get get dumped here, all the do gooders pat themselves on the back and say to each other "job well done" all the whilst ignoring the support services needed to deal with the culture shock. The inner suburban left loves to drop new arrivals in the outer burbs whilst not providing one cent of additional support be it social or emergency services.
Google "Sudanese support services Pakenham" and you will not get a hit. Services stop at Dandenong some 30kms away. Casey has the 3rd largest Sudanese population and Cardinia has gone from 20th to 10th in the last census period so where are the associated services?????
At the moment it is being funded by the local council and paid for by ratepayers which needs to be recouped in rates.
To me lots of times when a car jacking, home invasion, jewellery smash and grab or brawl occurs in Melbourne and is shown on the tv or in the paper they show Sudanese youth and because they are reasonably small in numbers either they are committing lots of crimes or the media go out of their way to highlight them, I will let the experts figure out what it is. I will say to the person who posted about poverty, not speaking English,culture shock etc as reasons for Sudanese to commit crimes: they are excuses not reasons and there should never be an excuse to commit a violent crime in the country that has rescued you.
I'm going to tactfully disagree with you on this point, I do not think "reasons or excuses" is the correct term, rather mitigating factors.
Until we can get these kids into employment or study it will continue, hence my referring to support services.
I'm involved with an African inclusion program at my work where we offer fully paid traineeships for a year, at the end of it as they're in our system most choose to stay on. For those that don't they leave with a work history and normally 3 to 4 personal references.
As a prospective employer would you take a kid with no references or one with 3 to 4 from a big 4 bank?
This is the practical support both big profitable business can provide and also if the government also assists small to medium enterprises it can happen there as well.
Well, I know that you said this:
Social housing has to go somewhere. It's fundamentally necessary. Do you disagree? Or do you just want it somewhere away from you? Do you want them concentrated in some sort of ghetto where you can avoid them?
Yes, Southside Brisbane has plenty of Sudanese people, as well as Ethiopians and other African Australians. But my point was about poor people. You're just seeking to distract from it by going on about the Sudanese again.
And, some of that is fair enough. Except, it's to do with "new arrivals" when my point was about the urban poor, not immigrants. Also, I seriously doubt that "the inner suburban left" have "not provid[ed] one cent of additional support". What evidence do you have that confirms such a statement? Do you think community centres and refugee assistance workers haven't increased in resources since the 90s? They have. And if you think they're underfunded, just check which party has been in power federally for the past seven years. Refugee support is funded at all levels of government including the federal government.
Why does it have to be Sudanese support services in particular rather than general migrant support services? Are Sudanese fundamentally different from any other refugee group?
Services - Living Learning Pakenham
Living Learning Pakenham provides Migrant & Settlement Services, Document Translation, Facilty Bus Hire, Men’s Shed, Community Garden, volunteering services for our community.
It took me 20 seconds on Google to find this.
There are two separate Federal Government programs to address the support of refugees - the Humanitarian Settlement Program and the Settlement Engagement and Transition Support Program. And within the HSP, there's Specialised and Intensive Services to address the really complex issues that certain groups may have. With all these programs in place, you'd figure there'd be more than enough money for refugee support. That is, of course, unless these programs aren't well-funded. And who's to blame for that?
Well, I know that you said this:
Social housing has to go somewhere. It's fundamentally necessary. Do you disagree? Or do you just want it somewhere away from you? Do you want them concentrated in some sort of ghetto where you can avoid them?
Yes, Southside Brisbane has plenty of Sudanese people, as well as Ethiopians and other African Australians. But my point was about poor people. You're just seeking to distract from it by going on about the Sudanese again.
And, some of that is fair enough. Except, it's to do with "new arrivals" when my point was about the urban poor, not immigrants. Also, I seriously doubt that "the inner suburban left" have "not provid[ed] one cent of additional support". What evidence do you have that confirms such a statement? Do you think community centres and refugee assistance workers haven't increased in resources since the 90s? They have. And if you think they're underfunded, just check which party has been in power federally for the past seven years. Refugee support is funded at all levels of government including the federal government.
Why does it have to be Sudanese support services in particular rather than general migrant support services? Are Sudanese fundamentally different from any other refugee group?
Services - Living Learning Pakenham
Living Learning Pakenham provides Migrant & Settlement Services, Document Translation, Facilty Bus Hire, Men’s Shed, Community Garden, volunteering services for our community.www.livinglearning.org.au
It took me 20 seconds on Google to find this.
There are two separate Federal Government programs to address the support of refugees - the Humanitarian Settlement Program and the Settlement Engagement and Transition Support Program. And within the HSP, there's Specialised and Intensive Services to address the really complex issues that certain groups may have. With all these programs in place, you'd figure there'd be more than enough money for refugee support. That is, of course, unless these programs aren't well-funded. And who's to blame for that?
The new social housing in Pakenham has been targeted for solely one group, Sudanese refugees. Being in Brisbane you respectfully Melbourne NIMBYs preach, prance and scream social justice as long as it's nowhere near them "Chardonnay Socialists" is a term you may of heard of.
Poor people? my area is one of the lowest socio economic areas in "greater" Melbourne, I moved here knowing that, simple fact is we are receiving more and more and more with no additional support services. This thread was not about "poor people".
Why does it have to be Sudanese support services? well that's where our immigrants are from around here. It's pointless running programs for safas on how to deal with "Blacks as equals" if they're not moving here, is it? We'll leave that one to Perth.
The support mechanisms are still not here you quote LLC Pakenham as if it's some panacea, their core business is hiring their space to community groups or running Cert 3 and 4's with extremely selective entry criteria. You're searching "migrant" services where as areas such as Dandenong have specialised support services for the Sudanese community and they stop there 30kms away.
And yes support services have not increased since our population has blown from 12K in 2004 to roughly 50k now. For a start no increase in emergency services fire, police, ambulance. The Ambulance got a new building but still only 2 units, schools? primary schools yes but we now have once secondary school designed for 600 with numbers pushing 2000.
My neighbour is an outreach worker with the migrant groups and has said they've not seen any funding increase, so maybe I'm biased but that's where I'm getting my info from.
Question do certain migrant groups require more support e.g. would a Sudanese refugee require more dedicated support compared to a cashed up English immigrant. Of course they will and that's why it's disingenuous to lump all migrants in the one group requiring the same support
The Sudanese immigration was instituted in the Howard years by fat Amanda, I love how you're asking who's in power now, well who was in power for the six years in between? they had the chance did nothing, now the LNP does nothing, rinse repeat.
As you don't live here you wouldn't understand that the LNP won't fund us as being a semi rural area the farming bumpkins have made it a safe LNP seat, ALP won't fund it as it's an unwinnable seat. Again rinse repeat .......
I honestly wouldn't care if 100K Sudanese moved here tomorrow as long as they had adequate support to deal with the culture shock that many of them will or are experiencing.
I wouldnt really say they face culture shock, moving from Australia to Africa would be a shock
back to the original question, I'm pretty sure the young Sudanese bloke that stabbed to death the other young Sudanese bloke was actually out on bail for an armed carjacking committed the week before: honestly you can't make this stuff up....
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So much for the persecution of minorities by our laws. Out on bail for armed robbery ffs and not an SJW to be seen for miles.
I'm fully behind more support services and other integration programs for new arrivals. I can't imagine how hard it would be arriving here and trying to work out the culture. With no support any new arrival would tend to hang with their own crowd - familiar culture and familiar language - and tend not to mix with the community until employment forces them to.
Support services for these people are ESSENTIAL.
I used to volunteer for a tutoring service in Victoria which worked with Sudanese kids, and sometimes their parents (http://www.sailprogram.org.au/site/about/about/), and my ex is a teacher who specialises in integration for kids from non-English speaking backgrounds into the mainstream Australian educational system. You're not wrong - the support just made a huge difference in terms of trying to bring these kids somewhere near a standard where they'd have a good chance of professional and educational success in Australia.
The lack of Australian cultural "learning" for their parents presents huge barriers for kids that we just don't even think about. The parents can't help with reading and writing, their English is often too limited to communicate well with the school, they don't have key experiences to pass on to their kids like applying for a first job in Australia, borrowing from a library, navigating romantic relationships in a Western context... beyond that, the kids often have to serve as the translators for the parents, when I'd just be doing homework.
And then there's the trauma. Plenty of the adults will have been conscripted to fight in civil wars they didn't necessarily want to be a part of. One of the guys at work (in his late 20s now) was a child soldier in Sudan.
The good news is that some of the kids were doing great - smart, mature and capable kids who were achieving at school and hopefully going places.
It's a massive shock, just in the opposite direction. Everything that applies to us going there, applies to them coming here.
The major change is that Western society is very separated and individualistic - we stay out of each others' business, we value our privacy and we don't support each other much. I don't even know my neighbours' names, and I see my cousins once per year at best. People who come from far more community-minded cultures are susceptible to becoming very lonely, very quickly in the West. It quickly feels like nobody sees you, and nobody cares. For Australians living in other cultures, it often feels suffocating - that you have zero privacy, and EVERYONE wants to know your business.
We're also very informal - so relationships that might traditionally rely on authority and prestige (like teacher/student) are very informal in Australia, which takes some getting used to. We are also far less patriarchal - which might explain why young men have particular trouble with adjustment. And we're much less religious, and far more open about sex - a confronting thing for people who aren't used to it. We're wealthy - so you have to get used to people complaining about extremely minor problems. And, of course, you suddenly stick out like a sore thumb.
Where did you hear this?
herald sun
as soon as someone criticises Sudanese or Africans for violent crimes they are instantly labeled racist, but I can guarantee if there was gangs of Irishmen running around car jacking or home invading people would want them and their families deported
Dogs_R_Us
Space Traveller
Irishmen were (are?) running around dudding old people out of their money with shoddy repair jobs, and yes, we do want them deported.
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Not quite in the same league as public stabbings, home invasions, car jacking and similar violent crimes tho is it.
Being labeled as ‘racist’ for pointing out a minority who continually and habitually perpetrate these violent acts is leftism at its worst and purely just an excuse for ‘do-gooders’ to feel like they have accomplished something they personally can feel proud of by letting these thugs off the hook.
That is not western justice, it is western political correctness perverted beyond repair.
We Irish engage in public drunkenness and occasional fisticuffs. And a bit of stealing sometimes. Nothing to get deported over surely?
I remember when the Carlton Mafia were busy shooting each other up and down Lygon St and (quite rightly) nobody called for the Italians to be deported.
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Is it?Not quite in the same league as public stabbings, home invasions, car jacking and similar violent crimes tho is it.
Being labeled as ‘racist’ for pointing out a minority who continually and habitually perpetrate these violent acts is leftism at its worst and purely just an excuse for ‘do-gooders’ to feel like they have accomplished something they personally can feel proud of by letting these thugs off the hook.
That is not western justice, it is western political correctness perverted beyond repair.
Outline to me how labeling someone as racist is left wing, using references to left wing economic theories and organisational hierarchies.
I think the major issue is that people are extremely fast to throw all Sudanese - or indeed pretty much any black African person - under the bus, for crimes committed by other Sudanese.
It's not like we turned around after the GFC and said that white people are cancelled.
I do think that both sides have become hyper-polarised - we need to talk about things like Sudanese kids breaking into jeweller's shops and the like, but in a way which doesn't smear everyone who's the same colour and certainly doesn't do draconian s**t like repatriating whole families to a warzone.
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Yes, it is.
Bro I have known you for about 1 minute so I’m not gonna take homework assignments from you, but being offended over it is your right especially if that is the only thing you decided to take from that post.
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Okay, prove it.
Feel free to ignore the point of the comment I made; that to be left wing one must espouse specific things about economics, wealth distribution and organisation.Bro I have known you for about 1 minute so I’m not gonna take homework assignments from you, but being offended over it is your right especially if that is the only thing you decided to take from that post.
So, either prove that what you said was left wing, or wear the fact that you don't know what left wing is.
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- #75
Why, so you can argue it until you’re blue in the face simply because you disagree?
Sorry pal, I do not do demands so perhaps adjust your attitude and we may get somewhere.
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