Society & Culture Marijuana and it's legal status

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vmasco

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#28
I have no issue with the responsible use of marijuana, so don't take any negativity as a personal negative from me. Yep re CBD but a question mark from me re THC.

Many states have legalised marijuana but it is still highly illegal from a federal level. I have taken a $50m punt in Santa Rosa, that will change in time but it is probably 5 to 10 years away. It is illegal to sell dope, cross borders, bank proceeds, use proceeds and revenues can not be offset by expenses.
As I understand it in the states where it is legal and regulated, there are variations but in general it is legal to operate legitimate businesses and sell weed to customers, who in turn are allowed to posses and consume in private. But as you say all bets are off once they cross the border. The banking and tax limitations I agree are hugely onerous but that's an application of federal tax and banking law not a law specific to marijuana. Also Barack Obama instructed the DEA it was not to use federal funding to investigate and carry out raids and seizures in states that have legalised. Incidentally he has now come out and stated along the lines that the patchwork of state laws is becoming untenable and eventually it would be wise to abolish prohibition and treat Marijuana the same way as Alcohol and Tobacco. Of course though he hasn't bothered to do this himself while in office.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Trump and his AG nominee, self-proclaimed pot hater Jeff Sessions take over. Hopefully being the entrepreneur Trump will see the revenue being generated by this new industry and won't allow any undoing of the progress already made by the states, not to mention it probably being quite low on his list of priorities.
 

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#29
As I understand it in the states where it is legal and regulated, there are variations but in general it is legal to operate legitimate businesses and sell weed to customers, who in turn are allowed to posses and consume in private. But as you say all bets are off once they cross the border. The banking and tax limitations I agree are hugely onerous but that's an application of federal tax and banking law not a law specific to marijuana. Also Barack Obama instructed the DEA it was not to use federal funding to investigate and carry out raids and seizures in states that have legalised. Incidentally he has now come out and stated along the lines that the patchwork of state laws is becoming untenable and eventually it would be wise to abolish prohibition and treat Marijuana the same way as Alcohol and Tobacco. Of course though he hasn't bothered to do this himself while in office.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Trump and his AG nominee, self-proclaimed pot hater Jeff Sessions take over. Hopefully being the entrepreneur Trump will see the revenue being generated by this new industry and won't allow any undoing of the progress already made by the states, not to mention it probably being quite low on his list of priorities.
I own marijuana farms in the US and can confirm it is legal at a state level but illegal at a federal level. It is still highly illegal to sell marijuana, despite what some suggest.

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Catfish Alley

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#31
I own marijuana farms in the US and can confirm it is legal at a state level but illegal at a federal level. It is still highly illegal to sell marijuana, despite what some suggest.

View attachment 321729
They still sell it though. Dispensaries are everywhere in those legal States. Even here in BC we have more dispensaries than Starbucks.
 

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#32
They still sell it though. Dispensaries are everywhere in those legal States. Even here in BC we have more dispensaries than Starbucks.
It is a fine line and every step of the way we have to have open dialogue with the DEA, federal and local govt.

We can do everything except sell the stuff, including to dispensaries. Dispensaries also can't legally sell.

We declare and pay our tax but legally can't offset deductions. We also have to pay our tax in cash as legally we can't use the banking system (federal law).

We can't even deposit cash into a bank as noted are swiped for drugs.

All this despite having licences issued by states and or local shire.
 

EagleShore

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#35
I have no issue with the responsible use of marijuana, so don't take any negativity as a personal negative from me. Yep re CBD but a question mark from me re THC.

Many states have legalised marijuana but it is still highly illegal from a federal level. I have taken a $50m punt in Santa Rosa, that will change in time but it is probably 5 to 10 years away. It is illegal to sell dope, cross borders, bank proceeds, use proceeds and revenues can not be offset by expenses.
TL;DR - THC is anti-proliferative and pro-apoptotic (induces cell death) in those cancer cells which express CB-1 and CB-2 receptors.

Edit: I just read the rest of the thread and realised you may have meant that there is a question mark re: THC insofar as it is safe when used long-term. My post is about the medical effects of THC which are spectacular in an age where cancer is a massive health issue.
AFAIK, THC possibly reduces the size of the hippocampus when used long-term, which may affect the individual's emotional well-being and memory bank.

My Actual Post:

THC has anti-cancer properties proven in vitro, and many have had (albeit unverified by rigorous scientific evaluation) positive effects from it, although, when done properly (ie. using the oil from the whole plant instead of using one cannabinoid produced by a pharmaceutical company), these results would be hard to pin down to any one single cannabinoid.

I'm currently making cannabis oil for my Dad as he has stage 4 prostate cancer. He has since reduced the dose of the constipation-inducing opiate medication (oxycodone) since using the last batch, which was a lot stronger than the previous few I made.

We're hoping that with a higher dose (been introducing him to it very slowly the past month or so) the anti-tumoral effects take place and his PSA drops as a result. As it turns out, I may have to find a way to have his prostate cancer cells tested before doing this.

According to this chart, THC is antiproliferative, which means it slows down the mitotic division of malignant cells. I have read elsewhere that it is also induces apoptosis (programmed cell death)... This study goes into a lot of detail, with sections on apoptotic effects of THC. Unfortunately there is still so much research to be done.

The study concludes that in some cases of breast cancer where the cells do not have CB-1 or CB-2 receptors, the immunosuppressive effects of cannabinoids (apoptosis of T and B cells) which are so clinically useful in diseases of chronic inflammation (ankylosing spondylitis, MS etc.) ultimately may make the cancer worse...this is because it compromises the immune system and DOES NOT induce apoptosis in the breast cancer cells.

I am hoping my Dad's prostate cancer has CB-1 and CB-2 receptors. I need to find a way to have this tested, but **** knows how I might go about this. In the meantime, given the biphasic response of cannabinoids in terms of their immunosuppression, I will keep him at a low dose to effect pain management and improve sleep while not suppressing his immune system.

E
dit:
I have just found this article which suggests that prostate cancer cells DO have increased expression of CB-1 and CB-2 receptors, so I will probably just continue to research and discuss the relative risks and benefits with the family, hopefully pushing ahead and achieving a regression of his cancer.

Wish me luck, fellow BigFooty-ers!
 
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EagleShore

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#36
I own marijuana farms in the US and can confirm it is legal at a state level but illegal at a federal level. It is still highly illegal to sell marijuana, despite what some suggest.

View attachment 321729
I want to go there... so do you make a profit? Are you into the medical effects of this beautiful plant or just helping people choose to engage recreationally?
 

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#37
I want to go there... so do you make a profit? Are you into the medical effects of this beautiful plant or just helping people choose to engage recreationally?
The profit from growing is high but won't last. The worst performing farm is $1.5m and the best is $12m. In total we are on track for $75m profit for the 2017 calendar year.

We have been re-injecting profit into the business and social programs. We bought large land holdings across from our partner universities, R&D and a medical device business with FDA approvals.

The public benefit of marijuana looks promising but not assured at this stage. So instead of taking profits we have and will continue building accomodation for the homeless.
 

EagleShore

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#38
The profit from growing is high but won't last. The worst performing farm is $1.5m and the best is $12m. In total we are on track for $75m profit for the 2017 calendar year.

We have been re-injecting profit into the business and social programs. We bought large land holdings across from our partner universities, R&D and a medical device business with FDA approvals.

The public benefit of marijuana looks promising but not assured at this stage. So instead of taking profits we have and will continue building accomodation for the homeless.
I'm optimistic about the medical benefits, especially given that the push for legalisation has faced such strong opposition from pharmaceutical companies despite the fact that they have made a few extracts of single cannabinoids or analogues thereof. Easier to patent an extract or synthetic analogue than a whole plant I guess.

Obviously you're quite a high-flyer in the agriculture or research field so good on you for directing profits back into benevolent causes.
 

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#39
I'm optimistic about the medical benefits, especially given that the push for legalisation has faced such strong opposition from pharmaceutical companies despite the fact that they have made a few extracts of single cannabinoids or analogues thereof. Easier to patent an extract or synthetic analogue than a whole plant I guess.

Obviously you're quite a high-flyer in the agriculture or research field so good on you for directing profits back into benevolent causes.
I wen to the US, to look at marijuana farms, thinking I don't want anything to do with dope. but a good friend, suggested I go with an open mind.

The turning point for me was when a noble prize winner, for the invention of pharmaceutical drugs, still working for big-pharma promoted the benefits. He explained his journey of isolating plants for illness and the long process for isolating the active ingredient and years of testing and FDA approvals. He then went on to say that the drug he invented and awarded the noble prize was less effective than the plant itself. Essentially millions wasted, years wasted and for what.................the ability to patent something.

Also having an auto-immune disease with no cure and resulting in death, myself and in the family, I know what its like to want a cure or something that just helps.

I digress but he claimed marijuana has huge potential and huge potential across the biggest profit areas currently dominated by big-pharma. As soon as I heard that, I thought "I'm in" as I love change and breaking down cartels. That said I am against 98% of the industry as its just smoking dope. FTR I don't care if people do drugs responsibly (once or twice a year) but I do have an issue supporting a habit.


I know nothing about agriculture or R&D but made enough in business (mining and finance) to be able to play elsewhere (property, IT, agriculture, food, logistics and entertainment etc). I'm semi-retired these days but love strategy, building teams and building businesses. Whatever I do though, has to benefit local communities, workers and the greater community. Otherwise my socialist, red flag waving, mum will tell me off!
 

vmasco

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#40
Also having an auto-immune disease with no cure and resulting in death, myself and in the family, I know what its like to want a cure or something that just helps.

I digress but he claimed marijuana has huge potential and huge potential across the biggest profit areas currently dominated by big-pharma. As soon as I heard that, I thought "I'm in" as I love change and breaking down cartels. That said I am against 98% of the industry as its just smoking dope. FTR I don't care if people do drugs responsibly (once or twice a year) but I do have an issue supporting a habit.
You consider more than once or twice a year to be a habit? I'll accept that at least you haven't referred to it as an addiction.

I appreciate your health situation (and outlook regarding turning the tide on cartels and helping local communities), and anyone else who is facing the dilemma of taking the step to source medical marijuana for their's or loved one's conditions.

If I may draw analogy though...

Airplanes are primarily a reliable and efficient form of transport. Whilst there are inherent dangers, government and industry regulations ensure the risk is minimised, leading to the benefits far outweighing the risks.

At the same time if they choose to anyone can go to a skydiving operator and jump from these airplanes for the simple joy of it. Again there is a (greater) risk but if done within a regulated framework taking necessary safety precautions, they are free to do so with no interference from government and the law.

Why are recreational consumers of cannabis still not provided this simple freedom like everyone else? (That's a rhetorical question by the way I already have a fair idea of the answer).
 

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#41
You consider more than once or twice a year to be a habit? I'll accept that at least you haven't referred to it as an addiction.

I appreciate your health situation (and outlook regarding turning the tide on cartels and helping local communities), and anyone else who is facing the dilemma of taking the step to source medical marijuana for their's or loved one's conditions.

If I may draw analogy though...

Airplanes are primarily a reliable and efficient form of transport. Whilst there are inherent dangers, government and industry regulations ensure the risk is minimised, leading to the benefits far outweighing the risks.

At the same time if they choose to anyone can go to a skydiving operator and jump from these airplanes for the simple joy of it. Again there is a (greater) risk but if done within a regulated framework taking necessary safety precautions, they are free to do so with no interference from government and the law.

Why are recreational consumers of cannabis still not provided this simple freedom like everyone else? (That's a rhetorical question by the way I already have a fair idea of the answer).
I'm pro responsible drug use and accept drugs are just something people do and always have done. Even those who don't do illegal drugs, probably do alcohol, tobacco or some other vice like sugar.

One thing that can't be ignored is the correlation with drugs and people f king up their lives. Dope probably isn't up there in terms of the risk of other drugs but it's called dope for a reason (dopey).

Responsible drug use varies drug by drug and person by person but I suggest a 20yo's view on responsible drug use is different to a 40yos. Regardless of the level, I don't want to negatively impact people or their families.
 

vmasco

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#42
I'm pro responsible drug use and accept drugs are just something people do and always have done. Even those who don't do illegal drugs, probably do alcohol, tobacco or some other vice like sugar.

One thing that can't be ignored is the correlation with drugs and people f king up their lives. Dope probably isn't up there in terms of the risk of other drugs but it's called dope for a reason (dopey).

Responsible drug use varies drug by drug and person by person but I suggest a 20yo's view on responsible drug use is different to a 40yos. Regardless of the level, I don't want to negatively impact people or their families.
I agree with your sentiment of not having a negative impact on peoples lives however surely you realise you are repeating a long outdated stereotype by referring to marijuana or users as dopey. Take Cheech and Chong for example. They portrayed the stereotypical stoner yet in reality these two men wrote, acted in and produced these cult movie hits. Hardly the work of some deadbeat, couch-locked pot heads.

I wonder how much you have looked into the recreational aspect of the marijuana culture. I think its somewhere in the realm of 10%-15% of (recreational) users who develop problems and whilst there is a correlation its too simplistic to lay all the blame at the feet of marijuana.

Look up Rat Park and it will explain what I am trying to point out more clearly. My view is in general people don't want to have shit lives but at some point in a persons life they may find a break from a particular issue is a necessity. It may be they don't even realise there is an underlying problem but are just reacting instinctively. The problem can then escalate because they feel compelled to secrecy due to illegality or they are found out - parents, loved ones or collegues focus on the drug rather than the underlying problem or worse turn their backs, leading to more and more reliance on the chosen vice. That would seem to make sense as to why so many people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds or minorities end up relying on vices simply to get through their crappy existence.
 

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#43
What concerns? Our bodies have receptors for Cannabinoids. CBD and THC are non-toxic to humans to the degree there is not an immediate negative reaction by the body upon injestion. Pretty much anything we consume can be a danger to our health if consumed irresponsibly but we don't prohibit these things. There needs to be compelling evidence that a substance will cause substantial danger to any person and so far we do not have that for marijuana.

There may well be long term affects of regularly injesting THC, but due to prohibition it has not been properly researched. Until it is fully legalised large scale, unimpeded scientific research cannot take place. Until then the perceived dangers associated with pot would seem to be terribly exaggerated, as most evidence coming out nowadays does not support these claims.

And as far as legality in the US goes my understanding is the states that have legalised either or both medical and recreational pot, are not to be interfered with by federal authorities. So whilst federal prohibition still stands, within those states it is most certainly legal to posses and consume pot. Is this not the case?
The US defence force is now giving marijuana to their servicemen. Interesting times ahead
 

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#44
The main problem with this for me is it can stay in the system for days and you can be charged for dui.
That's a challenge to legalise just from there
 

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Moderator #45
The main problem with this for me is it can stay in the system for days and you can be charged for dui.
That's a challenge to legalise just from there
that's a challenge for the testers

the tests are not currently accurate and a few cases have been dismissed in courts because of this from memory
 

TheKanga

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Thread starter #46
Seems to be going well in Canada!
Except they are struggling to keep up with the demand.
I'm sure they will get the process fixed up soon.

Meanwhile here in Australia we have mis-informed dinosaurs like this


While i'm not one to say weed is 100% harmless.
It can be abused just like any substance.
It's not the devil drug the Australian government think it is.
It's just as benign as a few beers on a weekend.

It makes zero sense for it to be illlegal.
If we can smoke, drink and gamble our life savings away.
We should be able to buy and smoke when we like.
Without having to support criminals and associate with them.

Sadly i don't see much changing anytime soon.
I think Australia is AT LEAST 50 years off any major changes.

The government are a joke.
They are still spouting off primitive 1940's - 1950's propaganda.
 
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Gralin

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Moderator #49
Seems to be going well in Canada!
Except they are struggling to keep up with the demand.
I'm sure they will get the process fixed up soon.

Meanwhile here in Australia we have mis-informed dinosaurs like this


While i'm not one to say weed is 100% harmless.
It can be abused just like any substance.
It's not the devil drug the Australian government think it is.
It's just as benign as a few beers on a weekend.

It makes zero sense for it to be illlegal.
If we can smoke, drink and gamble our life savings away.
We should be able to buy and smoke when we like.
Without having to support criminals and associate with them.

Sadly i don't see much changing anytime soon.
I think Australia is AT LEAST 50 years off any major changes.

The government are a joke.
They are still spouting off primitive 1940's - 1950's propaganda.
If the libs were smart they would say they would legalise it next term.

They get a new tax revenue, Australia can make further research advancements in medical marijuana uses because research will be easier.

And education on legal vices can be done quite differently to that on illegal vices, plus you take the doing something illegal attraction away.
 

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Thread starter #50
If the libs were smart they would say they would legalise it next term.

They get a new tax revenue, Australia can make further research advancements in medical marijuana uses because research will be easier.

And education on legal vices can be done quite differently to that on illegal vices, plus you take the doing something illegal attraction away.
Legalizing weed would be a massive blow to the criminals who are using the profits for distribution of stuff like Ice.
I know i'd much prefer to take a stroll down to the local weed store than going to some shady criminals house to buy it.
They would lose so much money and the country would make huge profits!

I don't trust Liberal or Labor to do it.
They would be to concerned with political suicide.
The senator from the Greens is right though.
Australia needs to get into the 21st century.

It's now completely legal in

Canada
Uruguay
USA (9 states for recreational) and (31 states for medical use)
Spain
Sri Lanka
South Africa
Netherlands - Technically illegal but use and sale is allowed in ''Coffee shops''
Georgia

And many other countries have decriminalized it and allow you to grow you're own plants.
 
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