Mark Waugh v Damien Martyn (Test batting only)

[Black Diamond]

Who was better?

I'll vote Martyn. After Steve Waugh retired, Martyn became my favourite batsman in the side.

Anyway:

Mark Waugh - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/8189.html

Games: 128
Runs: 8029
Average: 41.81
Strike Rate: 52.27
Best: 153* v India, 1998
100s: 20
50s: 47

Best series was probably the 2001 Ashes where he topped the batting for Australia and managed 2 centuries. His best innings IMO was his 126 against the West Indies at Sabina Park in 1995. This was the same innings Steve Waugh scored 200, and the victory which brought the Frank Worrell trophy to Australia. All in all IMO his record leaves much to be desired, and I think he badly underachieved.

Damien Martyn - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/6513.html

Games: 67
Runs: 4406
Average: 46.37
Strike Rate: 51.41
Best: 165 v New Zealand, 2005
100s: 13
50s: 23

His best series was 2004 v India. His 104 and partnership with Gillespie in the third innings of the match save our bacon big time after conceding a bad first innings deficit. I regard this as his best performance for Australia. The match was ruined on the last day with India needing a tick over 220 to win. In the next two innings during the third test he scored a hunted and a ninety and Australia took a 2-0 lead. He was named man of the series. Personally, I think he was scapegoated after the 2005 Ashes, where he was dropped despite being shot out by several umpiring shockers.

This isn't a thread about fielding or one-day play. I doubt anyone thinks Martyn was better than Waugh in those disciplines. Who was the better test batsman?

 

[Kram]

Both would have to be right up there as the most naturally talented batsmen that I've seen play for Australia. Picked Martyn but they are pretty much about equal, magnificent players to watch when on song.

 

[dan warna]

mark waugh was the brett lee of batting. He gets kudo's for longevity. Elegant at his best, but butter at his worst.

3 down was often 4 down when Aus were under pressure. coming in at 3/150 or better, waugh was your man for an elegant and dashing 80 odd.

I'd take martyn, lehmann, Deano, even clarke ahead of Mark Waugh. but the fanboys will be out soon bagging anyone who doesn't rate Waugh as anything more than a talented flat track bully.

 

[Black Diamond]

Both would have to be right up there as the most naturally talented batsmen that I've seen play for Australia. Picked Martyn but they are pretty much about equal, magnificent players to watch when on song.

I wouldn't call either naturally talented. Talent for batting comes down to natural timing and having a good eye. Your appearance is just that; an appearance. There is nothing elegant about Tendulkar or Kallis, but both are more talented than Waugh and Martyn.

I'd take martyn, lehmann, Deano, even clarke ahead of Mark Waugh. but the fanboys will be out soon bagging anyone who doesn't rate Waugh as anything more than a talented flat track bully.

Gee, really?

 

[dan warna]

I wouldn't call either naturally talented. Talent for batting comes down to natural timing and having a good eye. Your appearance is just that; an appearance. There is nothing elegant about Tendulkar or Kallis, but both are more talented than Waugh and Martyn.



Gee, really?

highlighting Deano? he was easily one of the best batsmen of his time in australia and faced the same attacks as Mark Waugh, performed as well or better than most other batsmen with the exception of border for Australia.

Better ODI player and test player than Mark Waugh.

As for Boof, we got to see this SA legend at the end of his career and he acquitted himself with the bat adequately, but clearly his best was better than what we got to see on the test arena.

 

[Black Diamond]

highlighting Deano? he was easily one of the best batsmen of his time in australia and faced the same attacks as Mark Waugh, performed as well or better than most other batsmen with the exception of border for Australia.

Better ODI player and test player than Mark Waugh.

As for Boof, we got to see this SA legend at the end of his career and he acquitted himself with the bat adequately, but clearly his best was better than what we got to see on the test arena.

My knock on Deano is that he would cash in during the second innings or in dead rubbers. That's why. I'm just a little surprised about Boof, but it's your call.

 

[Kyptastic]

Both were capable of match winning innings. The big problem when rating these guys is that a lot of their best innings occured overseas where not as many people saw them. In particular, Martyn only scored 4 of his 13 test centuries in Australia (in 33 test matches). However, he played a massive role in Australia beating both Sri Lanka and India in 2004 overseas and he was probably the best batsman for Australia in both series. He also played a great knock in Joburg to get us over the line in 2006.

Waugh also had a fair few quality innings that people people tend to forget about. Saved the game for Australia in Adelaide against the Springboks, all but dragged Australia over the line in Port Elizabeth and his 153* in Bangalore (although that was a dead rubber), as well as the Sabina Park knock.

If Martyn had got his mind together earlier (he lost 4 or 5 good years after the disaster against SA in Sydney) then he would probably rate ahead of MW over their entire careers, but overall I would place Waugh ahead of Martyn. That said, I think Martyn's best performances are better than Waughs.

Both are probably competing with Clarke for a middle order spot in Australia's best team of the last 20 years (Ponting and SWaugh pick themselves and I'd argue Hussey's best performances are better than the other three).

 

[dumb]

hard to pick against martyn when you remember his man of the series vs india in india 2004. 2 centuries, a 90 and a 50, largely responsible for us 'crossing the final frontier'.

 

[Hellgood]

Martyn did his best work overseas, so unfortunately he has never quite got the appreciation he really deserved.

Hard to choose one, they were both fantastic players and complemented the rest of the batting lineup very well. They also were both brilliant fielders.

 

[Alexwce]

Martyn did his best work overseas, so unfortunately he has never quite got the appreciation he really deserved.

Hard to choose one, they were both fantastic players and complemented the rest of the batting lineup very well. They also were both brilliant fielders.

This.

Martyn for me, just.

 

[strung_out7]

D. Martyn easily my favourite cricketer of all time. That innings he played in one of the first ever 20/20s (even tho not test match cricket) was some of the cleanest hitting without slogging you will ever see. Both made batting look easy

 

[Kyptastic]

D. Martyn easily my favourite cricketer of all time. That innings he played in one of the first ever 20/20s (even tho not test match cricket) was some of the cleanest hitting without slogging you will ever see. Both made batting look easy

[YOUTUBE]a4VRnEQQe_o[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Martyn also got a starring role in U2's "ZooTV Live In Sydney" video.

 

[Carl Hooper]

Damien Martyn, absolute legend. When he turned the corner and turned mini-god for that period I don't think anyone predicted that. When he had his head right, one of the best in the world. Australia missed him a lot when he left.

But Waugh, come on, Mark Waugh. The flair. Can't go past him.

 

[BarneyBent]

Marto. Dem rape eyes put fear into any bowler.

 

[Blessed]

Please. Mark Waugh is a better batsmen than Ponting even.

Mark averaged over 50 v England at even time. The only true indicator over time.

Won Australia many, many tests.

Never played on a losing Ashes team.

And remember Mark Waugh won us the Test World Championship v the West Indies in the West Indies when they were the Kings.

As a one day player. Mark Waugh was as good as any batsmen we have had in Australia.

[YOUTUBE]rmBsqJKTq00[/YOUTUBE]

My most favourite batsman. A delight to watch him bat. He wielded his bat like a surgical instrument. Soft hands, minimal backlift,; he would just tap/glide the ball and run for a single. The king of lazy elegance!

 

[Tyberious Funk]

IMHO, Mark Waugh is one of the most overrated players in Australian Test cricket. Don't get me wrong, he was a fine player... but nowhere near as good as he is made out to be. Elegant, but ultimately very flakey.

 

[Black Diamond]

Please. Mark Waugh is a better batsmen than Ponting even.

Good luck finding anyone else who agrees with this.

Mark averaged over 50 v England at even time. The only true indicator over time.

How so is that the only true indicator?

Won Australia many, many tests.

Name the matches.

Never played on a losing Ashes team.

So? If he was good enough to be picked in 1985 when Steve was he would have been part of the losing team in 1986-7.

And remember Mark Waugh won us the Test World Championship v the West Indies in the West Indies when they were the Kings.

He didn't win us the Test Championship v WI, Steve did.

As a one day player. Mark Waugh was as good as any batsmen we have had in Australia.

Obviously you missed the bit in the title which says 'Test batting only'.

My most favourite batsman. A delight to watch him bat. He wielded his bat like a surgical instrument. Soft hands, minimal backlift,; he would just tap/glide the ball and run for a single. The king of lazy elegance!

More like the king of just plain lazy.

See above.

 

[dan warna]

Originally Posted by Blessed View Post
Please. Mark Waugh is a better batsmen than Ponting even.

Good luck finding anyone else who agrees with this.

Mark averaged over 50 v England at even time. The only true indicator over time.

How so is that the only true indicator?

Won Australia many, many tests.

Name the matches.

Never played on a losing Ashes team.

So? If he was good enough to be picked in 1985 when Steve was he would have been part of the losing team in 1986-7.

And remember Mark Waugh won us the Test World Championship v the West Indies in the West Indies when they were the Kings.

He didn't win us the Test Championship v WI, Steve did.

As a one day player. Mark Waugh was as good as any batsmen we have had in Australia.

Obviously you missed the bit in the title which says 'Test batting only'.

My most favourite batsman. A delight to watch him bat. He wielded his bat like a surgical instrument. Soft hands, minimal backlift,; he would just tap/glide the ball and run for a single. The king of lazy elegance!

More like the king of just plain lazy..

^ This

Mark was was a v good batsman for his time, but by the time S. Waugh was captain, he was without a doubt the weakest batsman in the side. Throw in the fact S.waugh had one of the greatest attacks at his disposal, dizzy, Warne and McGrath, M.Waughs presence was not a deciding factor.

Langer, Hayden, punter, S.Waugh, Gilchrist amongst others carried him. In taylors more brittle batting line up, M. Waugh was exposed for his weaknesses far too often.

Averaging 50? Even Dean Jones averaged 50 against England. Dean also played against stronger West Indies that M.Waugh. Only the great Richard Hadlee made a mess of Dean Jones, but then he made a mess of many batsmen.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

mark waugh was the brett lee of batting. He gets kudo's for longevity. Elegant at his best, but butter at his worst.

Geez you read some garbage on this forum at times. Why do you suppose they had this "longevity". Huh? That's right, because they were good. "Butter at his worst" ... ridiculous comment of the year.

 

[Blessed]

Ponting choked in the last Ashes series. Mark Waugh never did in his history.

In the West Indieis World Championship game, Mark Waugh set the table and Steve Waugh ate from it.

It was Mark Waugh who made all the hard yards.

Like most test matches.

Mark Waugh batted 4th and Steve Waugh came in when down the order when Mark had scored 60 or 70 in even time.

Name the matches.

The world championship v West Indies as I stated.

The Sydney test when we won the Ashes.

The Manchester test match.

The Lords test match...

Etc, etc, etc...

Too many to mention.

One of the greatest batsman in the history of Australian cricket. Right up there with Greg Chappell.

And the speed he scored his runs meant we had plenty of time to bowl teams out a second time and win tests.

Mark Waugh, batting genius.

[YOUTUBE]nAwk1ZeAF9E[/YOUTUBE]

 

[dan warna]

LOL the chest beating on the greatness of Mark Waugh is laughable.

A good international batsman averaging in the low 40s.

Mark Waugh never choked in his history? how about Sri Lanka, they made a mess of him. Hard Yards? Steve Waugh was one of the greats who held the lower middle order together during the Taylor years.

Is this is troll comparing Mark Waugh to Greg Chappel? Chappel is one of the greats of the post war era and arguably amongst the greatest batsmen in history, Mark Waugh isn't even in the same room.

Speed of his runs? you do know his career SR is about 52 right?

His mass of runs of 8000 at less than 42 took 128 tests to achieve
(edited 50 to 52 in SR)

Damien Martyn scored his 4400 runs at 46 with a SR of 51.5. a fraction slower but at a much improved averaged.

Deano 3600 runs at 46.5 with a SR of 49. I would say that deano batted at 3, not 4 and our openers were often rubbish so was in far earlier.

Mark Waugh had some decent openers for much of his career with slats, boonie, taylor, hayden and langer.

Boof, 1800 runs at 45 with a SR of 62. I note with boof played much of his career during his decline with regard to fitness. His FC form is superior to any of the previously mentioned players, this in an era when Australia could have fielded 3 sides of test quality from the FC competition.

Mark Waugh wasn't in the same league of S.Waugh, Chappel, Border or others in contribution to the Australian side. He was a good test batsman, with a tonne of talent and a long career.

 

[CHIEF SMACKAHOE]

Please. Mark Waugh is a better batsmen than Ponting even.

jeeeeesus christ. better than ponting? i liked watching jr bat too but come on that's like saying vvs laxman is better than jacques kallis

 

[Wallaby]

Both are a bit over-rated because of their 'elegance' - which is mostly just created by not moving their feet.

Both had good periods and some great performances. Both had periods of failure -
Mark Waugh's 'Audi' against Sri Lanka, for example.

I think I preferred watching martyn bat - as to who had the better career - well, Waugh had a longer, more celebrated career, si I guess he wins.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Haha surely that guy saying Waugh was better then Ponting is trolling.

Compare apples with apples, Waugh never had to come up against an English nearly as strong as what Ponting has the last few series.
Stupid way to compare them when one of them was against arguably the weakest period of English cricket and the other the strongest