Society/Culture Marriage equality debate - Part 1

[kfc1]

Equating humans marrying animals, with consenting adult humans being able to marry other consenting adult humans under human law is, as has already been pointed out, a strawman argument.

Correct.

You've already conceded that the goat is unable to give formal consent.

Correct, however you don't seem to understand that the lack of formal consent has no actual implications for the rights or wellbeing of the goat. Given the goat is able to consent in its own way (I wouldn't marry one that hated me), I don't see the problem.

 

[Malifice]

Correct, however you don't seem to understand that the lack of formal consent has no actual implications for the rights or wellbeing of the goat.

How do you know that? Isn't that for the goat to decide?

Given the goat is able to consent in its own way

So.. goats can enter contracts now? Goats can be prosecuted for murder?

When did goats suddenly develop sapience, and the ability to express legal consent and intent to be bound to a binding contract?

 

[Roylion]

Correct, however you don't seem to understand that the lack of formal consent has no actual implications for the rights or wellbeing of the goat. problem.

It has implications for entering the institution of marriage under the law.

Given the goat is able to consent in its own way (I wouldn't marry one that hated me), I don't see the problem.

Whether the goat has consented or not, is only on your say-so. And until the goat can give formal consent to the level demanded of adult human beings when they wish to enter a marriage union, then your quest to marry said goat legally under Australian law is most likely to remain sadly unfulfilled.

Same sex marriage between consenting adult humans on the other hand is almost certain to become legal under Australian law. Quite rightly.

 

[Malifice]

If goats ever band together and start petitioning the State for the right to marry, we have bigger ethical problems on our hands anyway.

 

[Crow54]

kfc1 Can your goat sign the marriage contract? Or would you only require a stamp of approval?

 

[kfc1]

kfc1 Can your goat sign the marriage contract? Or would you only require a stamp of approval?

Stamp of approval is fine.

 

[Lebbo73]

But aren't you judging when it comes to homosexuals then? So you selectively not judge those whom you think belongs to your "clique" aka other Christians but judge others IE homosexuals when you see fit? Did Jesus ever approve of that double standards hypocrisy? Don't think so

Not homosexuals. I judge the act. There is a big difference. I will freely admit I used to be homophobic and for that I do regret and am sorry for. However, it does not mean I am wrong for not agreeing with gay marriage.
I don't agree with divorce in a lot of cases and I think it is wrong as well. It has nothing to do with other Christians.

 

[kfc1]

How do you know that? Isn't that for the goat to decide?

I can guarantee there will be no opposition to marriage from my goat.
As a human, I am entrusted with the goat's wellbeing so i can make that decision myself.

So.. goats can enter contracts now? Goats can be prosecuted for murder?
When did goats suddenly develop sapience, and the ability to express legal consent and intent to be bound to a binding contract?

As a human, I am entrusted with the goat's wellbeing so i can make that decision myself.

 

[Lebbo73]

Why should they?

Why should they take marriage seriously?

 

[Cooldude]

Not homosexuals. I judge the act. There is a big difference. I will freely admit I used to be homophobic and for that I do regret and am sorry for. However, it does not mean I am wrong for not agreeing with gay marriage.
I don't agree with divorce in a lot of cases and I think it is wrong as well. It has nothing to do with other Christians.

But the problem here is about the "moral obligation to defend the holy institution of marriage" that apparently is the right of you Christians as you claimed.

If you have that obligation, then why not defend divorce as publicly and as vehemently as you do gay marriage? What makes divorce more tolerable than gay marriage?

In fact, if Christians (at least protestant ones) are allowed to divorce with no consequences, then is that holy institution really as holy as you claim? Or you're just having double standards in terms of what you wanna oppose about?

Jesus was against divorce, he said it categorically, he never said anything about gay marriage though, that was Paul, and some stuff from Old Testament. So I don't see how if you Christians are so opposed to gay marriage, that you wouldn't be as opposed or disgusted by divorce, if you're doing all this to defend the holiness of marriage. Yet seemingly divorce amongst Christians has become more accepted over years, so why the double standards?

 

[Roylion]

Why should they take marriage seriously?

Yep.

 

[Roylion]

I don't agree with divorce in a lot of cases and I think it is wrong as well.

Why?

 

[darth_timon]

If you don't want interference from Christians, stop pushing for gay marriage. We are morally obligated to defend the holy institution of marriage.
Also, having gay tendencies might not be a choice. Carrying out on these tendencies is a choice!

The institution of marriage has historically been used for a lot of things, such as marriages for power, for land, etc. Marrying for love would seem to me to be a perfect reason to get married, and marriage is not wholly a Christian institution anyway.

Your second point is precisely why homosexuals resent Christianity. Why should they deny who they are to satisfy a standard of morality they don't believe in?

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

 

[Lebbo73]

Why?

Marriage is a holy covenant between a man and a woman who love each other. The statistics say that approximately 50% of marriages fail. So obviously this is not being taken seriously.

 

[Lebbo73]

But the problem here is about the "moral obligation to defend the holy institution of marriage" that apparently is the right of you Christians as you claimed.

If you have that obligation, then why not defend divorce as publicly and as vehemently as you do gay marriage? What makes divorce more tolerable than gay marriage?

In fact, if Christians (at least protestant ones) are allowed to divorce with no consequences, then is that holy institution really as holy as you claim? Or you're just having double standards in terms of what you wanna oppose about?

Jesus was against divorce, he said it categorically, he never said anything about gay marriage though, that was Paul, and some stuff from Old Testament. So I don't see how if you Christians are so opposed to gay marriage, that you wouldn't be as opposed or disgusted by divorce, if you're doing all this to defend the holiness of marriage. Yet seemingly divorce amongst Christians has become more accepted over years, so why the double standards?

Why do I want to defend divorce for?

Matthew 19:9 ESV / 160 helpful votes
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

 

[Malifice]

I can guarantee there will be no opposition to marriage from my goat.

Again, that's for the goat to decide, not you.

As a human, I am entrusted with the goat's wellbeing so i can make that decision myself.

But the goat cant make that decision. The goat doesn't know what marriage is, let alone have the capacity (legal or otherwise) to consent to it.

Are you aware you're trying to equate goats to people to prove an argument on human social rules, laws and rights?

That's akin to using 'we should consider prosecuting sharks for murder' in response to WA's shark drum line debate.

 

[Cooldude]

Why do I want to defend divorce for?

Matthew 19:9 ESV / 160 helpful votes
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Erm no, as in defending marriage and therefore oppose divorce, with the same force as you do gay marriage.... read properly

Jesus was against divorce, he said it categorically, he never said anything about gay marriage though, that was Paul, and some stuff from Old Testament. So I don't see how if you Christians are so opposed to gay marriage, that you wouldn't be as opposed or disgusted by divorce, if you're doing all this to defend the holiness of marriage. Yet seemingly divorce amongst Christians has become more accepted over years, so why the double standards?

This is kinda falling on deaf ears but whatever

 

[Roylion]

Marriage is a holy covenant between a man and a woman who love each other.

I would dispute that marriage is a holy covenant between a man and a woman who love each other. That's the Christian view of marriage. There are many other views about what marriage is.

Only rarely in history has love been seen as the main reason for getting married.

 

[Galactus_]

Whether you like it or not many people who have same sex attraction are repulsed by their feelings, choose not to follow that lifestyle, and want assistance to walk a different path.

The church is a great place for those people.

They definitely can get help, and the courses will help them to become better people, overcome the darkness in their life, and lead a life in harmony with God and nature.

There is a legitimate role for these courses targeted at people that do not want to follow a homosexual lifestyle.

Agreed. There are plenty of ex gay testimonies on youtube. I have referred so called 'gay' people to our church and they now have gf's, wives and even children. Scoffers will scoff but the results speak for themselves.

 

[clogged]

Why does kfc want to marry a goat?

He actually wants to marry an infant, this is an oblique way of arguing for that.

 

[Galactus_]

Great post. The feigned outrage of the leftist peanut gallery grew tiresome many years ago. Ironically the homosexuals are actually losing support with the average joe by pushing their gay agenda in such an aggressive manner.

For so long gay people openly mocked the institution of marriage. They would go on their silly parades dressed as Priests, nuns etc and mocked Christianity.

Now the homosexuals have decided that the massive hole in their lives can only be filled through marriage. Let me set them straight - the massive hole they feel in their soul will never be solved by marriage. For as long as they continue to follow a lifestyle that runs against both Christian law and the law of nature they will always feel a gap. There will always be a hole that can't be papered over no matter how many "laws" they try to change in order to convince themselves that their behaviour is normal.

Jones 3:16

Great points. Homosexuals have been insulting Christianity at their little parade show for years, and we never hear a peep from the leftist sjws. Families who are on struggle street don't want to see that but its an issue the left wing media uses to promote that lifestyle and destroy the family unit.

 

[kfc1]

Again, that's for the goat to decide, not you.

If the goat gets sick and needs vet treatment, e.g. surgery, who makes that decision?
Me.

But the goat cant make that decision. The goat doesn't know what marriage is, let alone have the capacity (legal or otherwise) to consent to it.

See above.

Are you aware you're trying to equate goats to people to prove an argument on human social rules, laws and rights?
That's akin to using 'we should consider prosecuting sharks for murder' in response to WA's shark drum line debate.

No I was just want to marry my goat and am pointing out there is zero consequences for the goat of me being allowed to do so.

 

[kfc1]

He actually wants to marry an infant, this is an oblique way of arguing for that.

I have standards, geez.

 

[clogged]

I have standards, geez.

It doesn't sound like the goat does.

 

[treegreen]

If the goat gets sick and needs vet treatment, e.g. surgery, who makes that decision?
Me.


See above.


No I was just want to marry my goat and am pointing out there is zero consequences for the goat of me being allowed to do so.

You're taking an incredibly unfunny joke and running with it aren't you? Peter Halliar would be proud.