Marriage equality debate - The plebiscite is on its way. (Cont in Pt 3)

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sherb

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Also I think its hilarious watching lefties lose their shit because of the sky writer in Sydney telling people to vote no, when every second city mailbox is covered in rainbow chalk telling people to vote yes. But I guess we should all discuss this in the 'hypocrisy of the left' thread.
The sky writing pushing the no vote quickly faded into obscurity.

A telling message for the no campaigners.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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Maybe this YES/NO argument is being framed the wrong way. Maybe this vote is for Secular Australia to decide. Religious institutions will likely keep their own counsel on who to marry within their own walls via the rite of Holy Matrimony but marriage in the 'outside' world? In Secular Australia?

It's a totally different argument.
 

sorted

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Translation. I just want to keep burying my head in the sand and follow the view that suits my agenda, facts be damned.

To try to contend that gay people dont have a higher level of suicide or suicidal ideation than the general population, with a straight face, is breath taking.
I didn't say that. I'm saying the research that I've read has been flawed. It's mostly based on small sample sizes, self reporting, motivated recruiting of subjects and much of it out of date. You haven't actually challenged what I've said so you appear to be the one with your head in the sand, facts be damned.

I think it's likely there is a higher rate of suicide amongst gays but the precise figures are not known. It tallies with the higher rates of mental illness and domestic violence, which are not based on self reporting.

People using the (flawed) data tend draw the conclusion that it's societal pressure - homophobia, discrimination etc - that causes these problems. That conclusion does not reconcile well with the fact that there has never been greater acceptance in society, but the higher rates of mental illness have not come down.
 

Number37

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I didn't say that. I'm saying the research that I've read has been flawed. It's mostly based on small sample sizes, self reporting, motivated recruiting of subjects and much of it out of date. You haven't actually challenged what I've said so you appear to be the one with your head in the sand, facts be damned.

I think it's likely there is a higher rate of suicide amongst gays but the precise figures are not known. It tallies with the higher rates of mental illness and domestic violence, which are not based on self reporting.

People using the (flawed) data tend draw the conclusion that it's societal pressure - homophobia, discrimination etc - that causes these problems. That conclusion does not reconcile well with the fact that there has never been greater acceptance in society, but the higher rates of mental illness have not come down.
You can't be serious.

People are saying vote no because boys will wear dresses and free speech will disappear...because people of the same sex will be allowed to get married.
 

The_Ru

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I have absolutely no issue with same sex relationships or the LGBI community, but after living my entire life in a religious sphere my personal view is the union of marriage should be reserved for a man and a women. However, I fully respect that a large proportion of Australians will base their opinion on other factors and will make a different choice. I just hope I am forwarded the same level of respect to have a different view.
What exactly in your religious understanding makes you believe marriage should only be between a man and a woman?
 

sorted

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I would argue that Monogamy is far more important to a marriage than the gender of the married couple.
Monogamy (or not) between a man and a woman has significant consequences. A man wants to have confidence the children he is raising are his. A woman wants to have confidence the man is investing in her children above others.

These consequences of monogamy are irrelevant to same sex couples.
 

Showbags

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I didn't say that. I'm saying the research that I've read has been flawed. It's mostly based on small sample sizes, self reporting, motivated recruiting of subjects and much of it out of date. You haven't actually challenged what I've said so you appear to be the one with your head in the sand, facts be damned.

I think it's likely there is a higher rate of suicide amongst gays but the precise figures are not known. It tallies with the higher rates of mental illness and domestic violence, which are not based on self reporting.

People using the (flawed) data tend draw the conclusion that it's societal pressure - homophobia, discrimination etc - that causes these problems. That conclusion does not reconcile well with the fact that there has never been greater acceptance in society, but the higher rates of mental illness have not come down.
You need to provide actual stats for your last contention. Rates of suicide/depression before acceptance vs now etc etc

You are obviously trying to contend that gay people are intrinsically mentally ill rather than extrinsic/societal factors playing the major factor. Any studies suggesting this? Or is it just your opinion?
 

Goldenblue

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If you despise the church thats fine. Your call fully respected.

But why are so many want to stay connected. Why do people want to get married in a Catholic church. Why do so.many want their kids baptised.

Cake

Eat it too
That's their choice, I don't begrudge them that. So please don't make out that I am.
 

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The_Ru

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Very. Like the general community, there have been, and still are, many issues with and within the church. The hypocrisy of the church to claim good intentions but do the opposite is particularly striking and opens them up for extra criticism.

I also respect your view on religion. I cannot expect someone to believe what I believe simply because I say so.

I saw a debate between Penny Wong and Cory Bernadi that I thought was interesting. He asked if she would support polygamy as a lawful form of marriage, and she said no. He then responded that she had a line just like he did, his was simply more conservative.
This is a super-dumb argument. No-one is entitled to engage in polygamy under current law. The issue isn't where you draw the line, it's whether you fundamentally believe one group in society should be restricted from access to a right other groups already have.
 

mxett

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Pretty much the bolded, given your previous comment.

I don't see what right you have to impose your religiously based views on others.
I dont see it as imposing my view as such, more the view of the majority of the country. If that majority approve the change then fair enough
What exactly in your religious understanding makes you believe marriage should only be between a man and a woman?
Basically the teachings of the bible, Adam and Eve, that sort of thing
 
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it was no where near a major change as that planned now
I think the fact I am forced to hear Johnny Howard chip in with his 2004 words at every wedding is a major change. Certainly more major that a law change that means two people who are having a committment ceremony may now choose to be officially married.
Monogamy (or not) between a man and a woman has significant consequences. A man wants to have confidence the children he is raising are his. A woman wants to have confidence the man is investing in her children above others.

These consequences of monogamy are irrelevant to same sex couples.
^ Look at how kooky and weird some of these anti-SSM people are when it comes to being in a couple. Yet these heteros can marry... what's the world coming to?
Yeh actually,it was.
It was done after the recent Ariana Grande concert muslim terrorist massacre of innocent young,mostly girls.
It also asked if Muslims would report people they knew of involved in terrorist activities,50% of respondents also said they would not report.
Essentially half of British Muslims support Muslim terrorism in their own country!
Scary numbers I would have thought given Mohammed is the most popular name now in London.
Multicultural suicide!
Given your posting about it in an off-topic thread and given your statements, I'm gonna go right ahead and call you a liar. Submit some proof if you want to be considered otherwise.
 

Jello_B

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Maybe this YES/NO argument is being framed the wrong way. Maybe this vote is for Secular Australia to decide. Religious institutions will likely keep their own counsel on who to marry within their own walls via the rite of Holy Matrimony but marriage in the 'outside' world? In Secular Australia?

It's a totally different argument.
How long do you think it will be before religious institutions are forced to marry homosexuals?
 

sherb

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This is a super-dumb argument. No-one is entitled to engage in polygamy under current law. The issue isn't where you draw the line, it's whether you fundamentally believe one group in society should be restricted from access to a right other groups already have.
Nor is there a broad societal push for it.
 

The_Ru

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I dont see it as imposing my view as such, more the view of the majority of the country. If that majority approve the change then fair enough

Basically the teachings of the bible, Adam and Eve, that sort of thing
Where specifically in the bible? Or are you basing it on a "vibe"? I might have some alarming news for you...
 

mxett

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This is a super-dumb argument. No-one is entitled to engage in polygamy under current law. The issue isn't where you draw the line, it's whether you fundamentally believe one group in society should be restricted from access to a right other groups already have.
but the extension of that is allowing other minority groups freedoms that dont align with the countries beliefs, whether religious or not
 

sherb

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I dont see it as imposing my view as such, more the view of the majority of the country. If that majority approve the change then fair enough
You are voting against equal rights for others based on your religious views.

Very disappointing approach towards your fellow Australian.
 
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