Game Day Marsh Community Series 1 2020: Hawthorn v St Kilda, Thursday 20th February 7:10pm AEST @ RSEA Park

[MrPremiership]

Regarding our small forward issues, rather than try and pretend that Moore, Hanrahan, Ross or Walker will replace Cyril i'd much Rather we take the Collingwood approach and just play Howe, Cousins, Jones or Maginess off the bench and then rotate Wingard, O'Meara, Smith, Worpel and Burgoyne between forward and Mid.

Lets wait and see the results after a few more games, but that's an option

 

[MrPremiership]

I actually didn't watch the game MrP, so I'm not basing my concern on a very small and crappy sample size.

I just fear that with all the tall forwards, and lets face it Gunston could well play as a utility not necessarily as a permanent forward, that if the ball hits the deck we just don't seem to have the cattle to keep it in the F50 as we have in the past. Hopefully someone puts their hand up over the next few weeks!

I will be watching closely how we structure up to see what the plan is to keep the ball on the attacking side of centre though. Will we be relying more on our mids and defenders to press up to try and stop teams running the footy out of our defence?

Yes. Part of scoring, and keeping the ball inside the forward half is the set up behind the ball once the ball is already in F50. A lot of scores come from repeat forward 50 entries, so its also a reflection on how well our mids/backs can do that.

Lets see what Clarko can muster, but I can't see why we're writing off our smalls already

What stood out to me most in last nights game was Saints (primarily Hill) delivery inside 50. Always hitting a chest, forward takes a mark and scores. No need for small forwards in that instance. That's the area of the game we need a lift in

 

[westhawk]

I think CJ will in a few years take over Stratton’s role. Capable of playing on the oppositions small/medium forwards.

I don’t like seeing two rucks in the team at the same time. McEvoy needs to be the number one ruck with Lewis as the forward/second ruck.

Agree mate, I don’t really rate Ceglar at all. Big boy is a quality ruck and he can just play a kick behind play and still help out the back line. We have more than enough back up rucks in Lewis, O’Brien and Patton. Would rather we played Hartley as the other key defender.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

St.Kilda have been quicker than most sides for years. Their problem has been finishing power. Not fussed at all that got us by a few goals in a pre-season game on a summer deck.

That's been the saints problem. Go 100 miles an hour at all times and than lack composure or make poor decisions with the ball. Still going with the same break neck style from last night's showing and will be interesting to see if Ratts has worked on their skill level. If he has they could very well rise this year and push finals.

 

[Brishawk]

We put them under very little pressure last night. Our was a team not intent on victory but rather a team blowing out the cobwebs trying to get some match conditioning. We tried things. Some of what we saw was no doubt intelligence gathering but most was just intensity and work rate and conditioning.

For example,I think hanrahan gassed himself in the first half and struggled in the second half.

we had one of our four best ball winning mids play more than 60% game time.

we had a reasonable team but plenty of quality that didn’t play. Seemingly part of the plan was to give guys like greaves, jiath, cousins etc some game time. Jones, Finn, Howe are three that could potentially come in next week and replace them and we would probably be a stronger side (though Howe might still be injured). Certainly a better tackling and contested football side. Just an example of how we can change things up without looking at normal best 22 like Sicily and still get stronger.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Howe is no chance he's been in rehab for a while now. Slowly getting back into it long way from playing imo.

Jom played 40% game time wingard 50 shiels also around 50 to 60. Mitchell around the same. There is obviously a set plan for everyone. Olly played over 80% clearly gassedafter a period of time. Its pre season the focus is on experimentimg trying things out and exposing some of the kids that have performed well in the pre season

 

[Topiary]

Lets just hope Ratten doesn’t do a Damian Hardwick to us for the next few years and keep beating us

LMS IP is huge here as you rightly point out.
Fortunately we have AC to invoke change but I fear even he with List restrictions will have limited mastery.
Dimma, Ratts etc know it.

 

[Mrzohs]

POSTIVITES

-Mitchell,Patton& Wingard all got thru they didn't play this time last yr. There improvment will be 10fold.
-Mitch,Jom,Wingard all played 60% or less.
- Good form by the wingers.

Negativies
- Defence a running hbf ball use - non existent we are fooked if we lose J.Sicily! Sicily, Scrimshaw are vital, Hence the recruit of Day they got it spot on!
I can see Day playing nurse him thru off the bench despite his size class is class!

- Small fwd , Hanrahan,Moore,Minch are not the type of players to lock it in.
Burgyone will fill this void and i suggest Playing Finn in this role give him exposure to the senious.

Play them both throw the hawthorn apprenticeship at vfl out the window.
The midfield at fullflight with cohesion will compete with any midfield based on this we are better than midtable!
Tom,Jom,Worp,Chad,Smith,Scully,Hendo,Shiels.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

what I found hilarious last night was the constant Hill gloating whenever he got the ball. What they failed to recognise was that his direct opponent could have kicked 5 with a bit more accuracy.

 

[Topiary]

We put them under very little pressure last night. Our was a team not intent on victory but rather a team blowing out the cobwebs trying to get some match conditioning. We tried things. Some of what we saw was no doubt intelligence gathering but most was just intensity and work rate and conditioning.

For example,I think hanrahan gassed himself in the first half and struggled in the second half.

we had one of our four best ball winning mids play more than 60% game time.

we had a reasonable team but plenty of quality that didn’t play. Seemingly part of the plan was to give guys like greaves, jiath, cousins etc some game time. Jones, Finn, Howe are three that could potentially come in next week and replace them and we would probably be a stronger side (though Howe might still be injured). Certainly a better tackling and contested football side. Just an example of how we can change things up without looking at normal best 22 like Sicily and still get stronger.

Wonder why Ollie gassed himself inthe first half ?? Apologies for the broken down record, but it is THE example of a young bloke not prepared to do the work or want to do the work. Only he can change this, but don’t hold your breath.
I am sure he is a ripping young bloke, but even ripping young blokes need to do the work in order to become ripping young blokes who SUCCEED !!

we just need to get more and more resources to overcome a glaring list weakness and unfortunately it takes time.

 

[becalm]

I can't go along with those that want to build a perfect side. Might have to wait forever for that to happen. Hawthorn has won premierships with deficiencies, eg without a first class ruckman. All sides have deficiencies. Its a matter of adjusting the plan to your strengths. The second half of last season we were as good as any side. Now we have the inclusion of TOM and the General, and may be Frosty. Anyway I remain more optimistic than many of our supporters.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

CJ has awesome instincts for the ball, the place where he leaped up and intercepted a handball reminded me of Cyril. I would seriously like to see him use those cat like instincts down for as we don’t really have that there so the Saints player hardly ever looked like they had to panic in defence. Nash is the other one who brings a bit of this. Poppy used to but not as effective now and Ollie, Minch and Walker don’t really seam that type. Also we have some amazing endurance runners but don’t have many 20m burst, super evasive guys which the Saints did. That’s our biggest need moving forward.

Yep agree 100%. No zip. Too many plodders. Side wasn't balanced at all last night.

CJ has to be in the 22. As you say we don't have another player like him.

Missed Nash enormously.

 

[TylerDurden]

Yep agree 100%. No zip. Too many plodders. Side wasn't balanced at all last night.

CJ has to be in the 22. As you say we don't have another player like him.

Missed Nash enormously.

No doubt.

 

[Topiary]

I can't go along with those that want to build a perfect side. Might have to wait forever for that to happen. Hawthorn has won premierships with deficiencies, eg without a first class ruckman. All sides have deficiencies. Its a matter of adjusting the plan to your strengths. The second half of last season we were as good as any side. Now we have the inclusion of TOM and the General, and may be Frosty. Anyway I remain more optimistic than many of our supporters.

Extremely good point but I am not sure you can hide and succeed with multiple list deficiencies.
Please don’t get me wrong we have worked hard overcoming deficiencies to date ie KPD and KPF resources and depth but most premiership teams, from our own experience, can’t win it with three weaknesses even in this so called era of evenness.
I to are very optimistic but I fear we wont bring home the bacon until we are much stronger in the areas we are discussing.
Again, the Club knows it.

 

[becalm]

Extremely good point but I am not sure you can hide and succeed with multiple list deficiencies.
Please don’t get me wrong we have worked hard overcoming deficiencies to date ie KPD and KPF resources and depth but most premiership teams, from our own experience, can’t win it with three weaknesses even in this so called era of evenness.
I to are very optimistic but I fear we wont bring home the bacon until we are much stronger in the areas we are discussing.
Again, the Club knows it.

You say we have three deficiencies.
A pressure small forward is one.
What are our other two weaknesses.
The Club knows it and are working on it. Is that a change of game plan or waiting another 1, 2 or 3 years to pick up players to fix the deficiencies.
The last two years we have had players on the line who may have helped in these areas but failed to land them. It won't be easy to find these players, or do we go to the draft.
That's why I say you have to make the best of what you have.

 

[TylerDurden]

Re Patton, one thing I noticed, was that their defenders were worried about him. Forces blokes to man handle and give away frees. Forces other defenders to go up in the aerial contest, leaving numbers on the deck for us. We haven't had this since Bud and Rough were in their prime.

Adds another dimension. Last night was our first crack at it. Keen to see how it looks on the open spaces of the G, where we can get more separation.

R1 can't come quick enough.

 

[RoughysMullet]

100%.

And the McEvoy experiment will only work if the opposition are denied clean entry into the forward line. He will be burnt on the lead.

Absolutely- midfield and forward pressure is poor at the moment- we allow the opposition far too much clean entry- it’s gonna be a problem unless we find a way to improve

 

[burner1]

While on paper we have fixed our KPP deficiencies as it stands none of Patton/Lewis/TOB/Frost/Frawley are really elite kpp. Lewis and Patton may get there (or frost) but as well as our noted smalls/speed issue we really need someone to stand up. WCE and even Richmond have better talls as it stands today (and better midfields and speedy smalls).

Not trying to be negative but we still have a fair bit of work to do.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

The game has changed Mr P

And it shall change again
If you’re not the lead dog, the views always the same

 

[burner1]

No doubt.

We’re in a strange list position where we probably really need to play CJ and Nash in the 22, even though there’s clearly better players available. Yes it’s for balance/structural reasons but issues appear fairly acute at present.
The concerning thing is, with impey out for a while, can’t even really think you else you’d add to the 22 to provide some pace/excitement (Finn, Ollie?)

 

[threesixpio]

We’re in a strange list position where we probably really need to play CJ and Nash in the 22, even though there’s clearly better players available. Yes it’s for balance/structural reasons but issues appear fairly acute at present.
The concerning thing is, with impey out for a while, can’t even really think you else you’d add to the 22 to provide some pace/excitement (Finn, Ollie?)

Longer term this is worry for me. Run and X factor smalls. Hendo, Smith and Scully are great but not young.

Pops is close to being a Pop and Sizzle has left. These are out long term holes - without question

Keen to see how Day and McGuiness develop but seem to be half back and inside respectively.

We aren’t there yet but think we are getting closer. CJ so interesting to see over the coming years

 

[PT Bar None]

What did the score end up being? (Apologies if it was mixed in with all the numerical sequence posts and I missed it.)

Also, what's the context of "Marsh Community Series"? Is it just a practice match or is it the 2020 version of the JLT*?


* In that it's also just a practice match but the AFL pretends it's more meaningful.

 

[tige19]

How Clarko injects some speed and x-factor will be interested to see. It’s only pre-season but we look a bit workman like across the park (lots of b-graders but not enough brad hill like game breakers). Hope to see more of CJ in 2020.

Most logical post I've read... We are 100% loaded with B graders with little to no line breakers or players with genuine X-factor (Chad and Sicily the only ones), we will win plenty of games because of that workmanlike, consistent effort across the board but could struggle at the very top end of the ladder.

 

[Cleavy]

What did the score end up being? (Apologies if it was mixed in with all the numerical sequence posts and I missed it.)

Also, what's the context of "Marsh Community Series"? Is it just a practice match or is it the 2020 version of the JLT*?


* In that it's also just a practice match but the AFL pretends it's more meaningful.

Saints 17.9 (111) Hawks 13.12 (90)

It's just practice games, some held in more regional venues

 

[tige19]

I can assure you, you're wrong.

Bizarrely, Titch was 100% targeted physically which is weird for a pre-season match.