Preview Marsh game 2 - Port v Dogs

[CDBulldog]

i personally rate Schache - i get he played a bad game. Hes still developing. But with Naughton and Bruce up there, he'll get on the end of a few and prove to be valuable.

i also really like Lewis Young but think he should be at FB. Alongside Keath and Cordy.

I’m in agreeance with this post. Young will be the man to take the gorillas. Frees up Keath to help out with the intercepts.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Hayes a bit unlucky, but I won't disagree with the suspension. It was a dangerous tackle, and the AFL really needs to step up and protect the players. Wouldn't have been any malicious intent with his tackle, it was just sloppy, but he has to pay the price.

Guess we can pencil in Roarke for a Round 1 spot on the wing, unless Richards gets the call up thanks to his VFL performance

 

[csharp]

I’m in agreeance with this post. Young will be the man to take the gorillas. Frees up Keath to help out with the intercepts.

What?
Young is a mobile intercept defender, that's 100% his game down back. He's not even close to a gorilla.

In the second last game of last season where we thumped GWS, Lachie Keeffe, a crap player, kicked two goals on him in the first quarter just by outbodying him easily. Young went onto have a good game by racking up intercept marks and rebounding effectively.

Then the following week, we beat Adelaide convincingly, but what should've been an absolute demolition of a mentally broken Adelaide at Ballarrat turned out to be only 34 points. Why? Because we let them score 87 points. How? Because they were marking almost every single high bomb that went into their 50. Taylor Walker, mediocre all season, kicked a season-high 5 goals that game. Who was his opponent? Lewis Young.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Schache was poor yesterday, largely because he sprayed a couple of shots he would usually kick. However, he did kick 19 in the last 10 games last season, do that for a season and that's 40 odd, a very good return. He can be frustrating and has his flaws, but he is worth a spot in the team and is far from a lost cause. He is still only 22.

 

[csharp]

Schache was poor yesterday, largely because he sprayed a couple of shots he would usually kick. However, he did kick 19 in the last 10 games last season, do that for a season and that's 40 odd, a very good return. He can be frustrating and has his flaws, but he is worth a spot in the team and is far from a lost cause. He is still only 22.

I suspect a pretty decent portion of those goals came from free kicks.
If he can continue averaging 1.9 goals a game, by all means keep him in the team. Should that drop to 1.5 goals or lower, someone else should take his spot, because he just doesn't offer much else.

 

[Bulldog1954]

I suspect a pretty decent portion of those goals came from free kicks.
If he can continue averaging 1.9 goals a game, by all means keep him in the team. Should that drop to 1.5 goals or lower, someone else should take his spot, because he just doesn't offer much else.

Not sure where your suspicion that a lot of his goals were from free kicks comes from, it seems unlikely, but even if they did and he knows how to draw a free kick they still count for 6 points. In general he takes his chances, which a lot of our other forwards don't. Even if his average dropped to 1.5 goals a game, that's 33 goals as a third forward, a decent return.

 

[stefoid]

Keath is a bit weird because we expect him to have the experience of a veteran at his age, but he used to be a cricketer until 5 minutes ago.

I think we probably worry about 1:1 defence a little too much when Bev will be relying on players upfield making sure the ball comes in poorly and then having this plethora of interceptors will come into its own.

Having said that, it was great being able to 'Morris' one of the oppositionb players who was getting off the leash. good times

 

[csharp]

Not sure where your suspicion that a lot of his goals were from free kicks comes from, it seems unlikely,

I know this might come as a bit of a shock, but I'm pretty sure this niggling suspicion of mine is derived from... watching games...

In fact, as early as round 2 against Hawthorn, he was on the receiving end for the softest free kick of the year. I'd have thought something like that might come to mind...

but even if they did and he knows how to draw a free kick they still count for 6 points.

Perhaps. If he can keep winning free kicks, you won't hear me complaining. Could also be because he gets outbodied so easily that the umps sometimes give in.

In general he takes his chances, which a lot of our other forwards don't. Even if his average dropped to 1.5 goals a game, that's 33 goals as a third forward, a decent return.

Actually, it's garbage in the context of Schache's overall performance.
I'd much rather have a player who averages between 1 to 1.5 goals a game, but has more tackles, 1%ers, pressure acts, assists, disposals and marks. That is the difference between a player like Josh Jenkins and Jack Gunston; Jenkins averaged more goals last year, but I know who I'd rather have on my team...

 

[Yojimbo]

Can’t see us ever lining up in a pre season game purely to match up well on that oppo.

Perfect time to try it, no points on the line. If it works just put it in the pouch until the next time you face a
similar structure then BAM there it is.

 

[Bulldog1954]

I know this might come as a bit of a shock, but I'm pretty sure this niggling suspicion of mine is derived from... watching games...

In fact, as early as round 2 against Hawthorn, he was on the receiving end for the softest free kick of the year. I'd have thought something like that might come to mind...

So there's one. He got one free kick against Hawthorn, he kicked 4 goals.

He got 15 free kicks for the year, doesn't seem huge to me. How many of those do you think directly resulted in goals? I could be wrong, but the argument that he gets a lot of his goals from free kicks seems a dubious one to me. Agree though that he needs to add more to his game, I think he can be of value leading up to the wings as a link player in a Tom Lynch (Adelaide) kind of style, he seems to have a good tank and has very nice foot skills.

 

[dergert]

Apart from our forward line being made up of one too many midfielders and us missing more of a bigger bodied defender, i reckon we looked good.

I took enough out of that game to feel comfortable with where we are at.

I wonder how naughton and bruce will fit into the same forward line.

 

[Pugz89]

Feel for him because he almost certainly didn’t know the ball had been knocked out, but that’s the world we’re in now.

Its got nothing to do with whether ball was there or not, Will pinned both arms and the bloke's head hit the ground. Textbook example of a dangerous tackle and the exact type of incident the rule was in enacted for.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I suspect a pretty decent portion of those goals came from free kicks.
If he can continue averaging 1.9 goals a game, by all means keep him in the team. Should that drop to 1.5 goals or lower, someone else should take his spot, because he just doesn't offer much else.

I actually just went through the effort of checking this. He got 12 free kicks in that time frame. I'm checking what he's kicked his goals from, with the options basically being from a free kick, from a mark to set shot, and from general play.

Round 14 - 3 goals, one from a free kick in a marking contest - 1 free kick
Round 15 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 17 - 1 goal, none from free kicks - 4 free kicks
Round 18 - 1 goal, none from free kicks - 0 free kicks
Round 20 - 2 goals, none from free kicks (both from clean marks here) - 0 free kicks
Round 21 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 22 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 23 - 2 goals, one from a free kick 45m out - 3 free kicks
Elim Final - 1 goal, one from a free kick - 1 free kick

Most of the above goals are from marking, then kicking from a set shot. I count 3 goals from those 19 that were from free kicks.

But please, don't let me get in the way of your false narrative. Continue melting

 

[Rocketsurgery]

The reality RS is that the game isn’t played as simplistically as your asking the players to do so. And while players will never be allowed to freely pick loose targets off directly down the ground as happens to be the case for all teams in 99% of games played, a player that can can open the game up or get their way out of trouble the way with elite decision making and ball use can be a backlines biggest asset.
We’ve seen with teams like Ess and Port what happens when teams play as quick out of their backline as possible, it eventually goes belly up. Yes, teams have time to structure up defensively when you take a cautious approach to transitioning but the same applies to a teams fwd line. It can go belly up as we saw with Ess most weeks last year, their fwd structure was a shambles.


I don’t buy the hypotheticals in your post either RS. Anyone of our backline can dink a short lateral to JJ if he’s free and there’s no pressure on the kicker. Daniels probably the only one that can thread the needle to JJ from a pressured position that opens up the game for transition. The reality is, more often than not CD creates from the back through elite decision making. It’s a fair stew clutch moment to suggest his disposals down back have no impact.

I also struggle to understand the thought process for moving Daniel fwd.
Direct opponent, direct pressure. He doesn’t just role up to the fwd line and start lacing out teammates as he does down in defence.

There’s a reason one of the best coaches in the comp plays CD as a loose qtr back. It works. Really well.
With all things considered that’s where anyone can end up with their opinion of CD, unfortunately, not all in here consider all factors.

I agree his 15-20 metre kicks can be very good, but what if the only option or the best option is 40-50 metres away. He simply cannot drill that pass, it's not in his skillset. So he has to find a teammate that's closer by. So the better option is lost and he wastes time trying to find an option he can make. Or he tries to make the distance and it ends up being a 40 metre pie floater (as described by BRWB in another thread), which gives an opponent time to make a spoil, mark the ball or simply hold our player up so he can't play on. Advantage lost. That's what I mean by him slowing our movement of the ball because he can't make passes a lot of others can make.

Again this only describes his contribution offensively and from a rebound / playmaker POV. But again that's only half his expected contribution. What does he bring defensively to the table? All players are expected to provide something defensively when the opposition have the ball, even forwards. Caleb's defensive contribution is next to nothing. There are very few forwards in the league he could ever beat one on one, be it smalls, meds or talls. Our game plan revolves around protecting him from being exposed one on one in defense but that means others on the team are sacrificing their games to cover for him. That could impact their contribution to the game. But there will always be good coaches that will find a way to isolate him one on one and expose his deficiencies. We've seen this before many times and it cost us big time.

When it comes to taking all factors into account as you say, his positives and negatives, overall I think he's a liability to the team while playing in defense. Again, it is only my opinion and I'm happy for him to prove me wrong. Only time will tell. I let you have the last word as I've said my piece.

 

[dergert]

Anyone else keep thinking Bruce was Tom Boyd?

 

[csharp]

So there's one. He got one free kick against Hawthorn, he kicked 4 goals.

He got 15 free kicks for the year, doesn't seem huge to me. How many of those do you think directly resulted in goals? I could be wrong, but the argument that he gets a lot of his goals from free kicks seems a dubious one to me. Agree though that he needs to add more to his game,

I don't know the exact numbers, I just recall him scoring a few goals from free kicks later in the year. It's not that important of a detail in the context of his ability as a player. He's still a crap marking target, which is a big deal for a 200cm player.

I think he can be of value leading up to the wings as a link player in a Tom Lynch (Adelaide) kind of style, he seems to have a good tank and has very nice foot skills.

This is what Brisbane and Bulldogs supporters have been hoping for for 5 years, but it's not his game. Like Tom Boyd, he was a high draft pick based on his performances as a full-forward, renowned for his goal kicking more than anything else. Working up the wings is not his natural game, and not once has he displayed the capacity to play that role, even if he does have a high level of endurance. Running a lot doesn't help much when you still get beaten in marking contests by guys 10cm shorter than you.

I actually just went through the effort of checking this. He got 12 free kicks in that time frame. I'm checking what he's kicked his goals from, with the options basically being from a free kick, from a mark to set shot, and from general play.

Round 14 - 3 goals, one from a free kick in a marking contest - 1 free kick
Round 15 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 17 - 1 goal, none from free kicks - 4 free kicks
Round 18 - 1 goal, none from free kicks - 0 free kicks
Round 20 - 2 goals, none from free kicks (both from clean marks here) - 0 free kicks
Round 21 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 22 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 23 - 2 goals, one from a free kick 45m out - 3 free kicks
Elim Final - 1 goal, one from a free kick - 1 free kick

Most of the above goals are from marking, then kicking from a set shot. I count 3 goals from those 19 that were from free kicks.

But please, don't let me get in the way of your false narrative. Continue melting

Take a chill pill bro, no need to get so aggro over me not rating your favorite player.

 

[Mattdougie]

I actually just went through the effort of checking this. He got 12 free kicks in that time frame. I'm checking what he's kicked his goals from, with the options basically being from a free kick, from a mark to set shot, and from general play.

Round 14 - 3 goals, one from a free kick in a marking contest - 1 free kick
Round 15 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 17 - 1 goal, none from free kicks - 4 free kicks
Round 18 - 1 goal, none from free kicks - 0 free kicks
Round 20 - 2 goals, none from free kicks (both from clean marks here) - 0 free kicks
Round 21 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 22 - 3 goals, none from free kicks - 1 free kick
Round 23 - 2 goals, one from a free kick 45m out - 3 free kicks
Elim Final - 1 goal, one from a free kick - 1 free kick

Most of the above goals are from marking, then kicking from a set shot. I count 3 goals from those 19 that were from free kicks.

But please, don't let me get in the way of your false narrative. Continue melting

Hahahaha I love it when someone slams their cards down and proves that a select few just make things up and then double down when they are called out.

Well played VD(oooo that’s unfortunate) lol

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I agree his 15-20 metre kicks can be very good, but what if the only option or the best option is 40-50 metres away. He simply cannot drill that pass, it's not in his skillset. So he has to find a teammate that's closer by. So the better option is lost and he wastes time trying to find an option he can make. Or he tries to make the distance and it ends up being a 40 metre pie floater (as described by BRWB in another thread), which gives an opponent time to make a spoil, mark the ball or simply hold our player up so he can't play on. Advantage lost. That's what I mean by him slowing our movement of the ball because he can't make passes a lot of others can make.

Again this only describes his contribution offensively and from a rebound / playmaker POV. But again that's only half his expected contribution. What does he bring defensively to the table? All players are expected to provide something defensively when the opposition have the ball, even forwards. Caleb's defensive contribution is next to nothing. There are very few forwards in the league he could ever beat one on one, be it smalls, meds or talls. Our game plan revolves around protecting him from being exposed one on one in defense but that means others on the team are sacrificing their games to cover for him. That could impact their contribution to the game. But there will always be good coaches that will find a way to isolate him one on one and expose his deficiencies. We've seen this before many times and it cost us big time.

When it comes to taking all factors into account as you say, his positives and negatives, overall I think he's a liability to the team while playing in defense. Again, it is only my opinion and I'm happy for him to prove me wrong. Only time will tell. I let you have the last word as I've said my piece.

Sorry RS but these are more random hypotheticals. How often is there a clear 40-50 metre target direct down the line? You must be watching a different comp every week. I also struggle to recall any of our backman lacing out direct 40-50 chest hight worm burners on many occasions.

As for CD’s defensive efficiency, you know he plays loose yeah? He’s in a very small percentage of contests compared to teammates due to having no direct opponent. He loses * all one on ones because he’s in * all one on ones, with a handful being ones caught out on bigger opponents spread across 17 games.
The way most defensive set ups work nowadays is the whole group work together to defend and create rebound, one of those ways is to create the loose role that CD plays. Nearly all teams have these set ups at times. Our back 6 working to create the loose is nothing new. We aren’t at a disadvantage. You know this yeah?


I understand you’re not a fan of CD down back, obviously, but you don’t give yourself the whole picture and I think that’s where the random hypotheticals come from.

CD was outstanding last year so if you feel he hasn’t proved himself to you so far, I guess you’ll just have to eventually see the light.

On a side note, he’s not completely safe down back and immune to being dropped in my opinion. Plenty mention he’s a Bev love child, but the reality is if his personal form drops from what it was last year he’ll be playing twos, I’ll never argue with that. I’m just in the corner of he’s 100% got a role down there if form permits.

Feel free to respond, happy either way.

 

[trophies]

I cannot understand why we do not try Schache as a defender in twos. He has shown time and again he is capable of the odd good game up forward but then follows up with stinkers. I remember a certain Liam Jones doing the same thing with the dogs. A number of us called for him to be tried down back. He then goes to blues and was on the verge of delisting before someone at the blues must have read some of the bulldogs big footy posts re jones being tried in the back line with success. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

I think it's a grand idea. CHB plays easier than CHF because you don't have to be as proactive or creative.
Schache has the pace size and endurance to go with any of the power forwards - and he doesn't have to mark it! Bonus! I well remember Bernie Quinlan becoming a dominant player when moved from CHF to CHB where he could become the hunter rather than the hunted.
Nearly all of the draftees each year have played most of their footy from the centre and forward of the ground, and only become defenders when it's the only available option. Give this bloke a go in the backline - it may just save his career and improve the team.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Hahahaha I love it when someone slams their cards down and proves that a select few just make things up and then double down when they are called out.

Well played VD(oooo that’s unfortunate) lol

I'm all for people having their opinions on players, but not when people outright make s**t up. I may not agree with your opinions on Bailey Williams and Will Hayes for example, but at least you don't flat out lie about them. Gotta call people out when it's deserved

 

[Mattdougie]

I'm all for people having their opinions on players, but not when people outright make s**t up. I may not agree with your opinions on Bailey Williams and Will Hayes for example, but at least you don't flat out lie about them. Gotta call people out when it's deserved

People are slowly starting to see the truth and the lies a very select few tell time and time again. Unfortunately they can do it with me because a lot of people will see me name and just believe it.

Anyway that’s BF for you.

Williams was very good on the weekend and after that game has to be in round 1. He is a far better option off HB than Daniel.

Will Hayes is a spud, I’d prefer Lin Jong

 

[stefoid]

schache to bache? or too much wache tobache?

 

[TedDougChris]

Occasionally, just occasionally - I wonder why so many good posters don't continue to post here..

And then I remember....

 

[ManOfClay]

Is it the real season yet? Off season off topic dumpster fire arguments are so fun.

Good to see Bruce start well. Whyalla has always been a dump and I hope to never see our players venture further north of Adelaide airport than the Adelaide Oval in the future. And yes AO is north of the airport. Get a map.

 

[Yojimbo]

Anyone else keep thinking Bruce was Tom Boyd?

Josh Bruce is not as good a ruck and Tom Boyd would have had to play until he was forty years old to kick as
many goals as Josh Bruce has.