Game Day Marsh Series - Carlton v Fremantle Saturday 29 Feb 7.10pm (EST) @ David Grays Arena

Remove this Banner Ad

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
13,791
21,410
AFL Club
Carlton
Gibbons wasn't the only one bombing it long. I know you and others like Stamos don't rate him, but compare his current (as well as last year) output and he is miles ahead of others such as Dow, Cuners, Newnes etc

Cuners awareness, game sense is poor, hence why I suggest he should be given a run with role off a wing, takes him to the ball, then use his speed to burn players off
Yeah, this is where we disagree. There is no way that he's "miles ahead" of those other 3 (although they're not competing for the same positions).

Gibbons simply lacks weapons. And when you're as small as him, you need to have a weapon. You say Cunners lacks awareness and game sense, but at least he's dangerous. And when we're talking about a player picked as the 21st or 22nd player, to play mid or forward, I'm taking the guys who is dangerous to the opposition, the player who can make something happen.
 

bigbertha5

Debutant
Aug 17, 2009
136
414
Vermont
AFL Club
Carlton
Strange, I finally got around to watching the game last night and thought Gibbons was busy but every time he got the ball he turned it over and was one of the worst culprits at just bombing the ball into the forward line to no one. Confirmed to me why I have him out of the side. Also despite being so "busy" from memory he ended up with roughly the same possessions as Cuningham, Dow and Setterfield but didn't lay a tackle.

Other observations - Cunningham and Dow proved why they are polarising players - what they did was generally very good but they didn't do it enough. I would still give them ahead of some others based on their ability to create something out of traffic.
We actually controlled big sections of the game just our ball use, particularly going inside 50, was terrible. It also didn't help that we were missing pretty much our entire starting forward line.
Darcy Lang shouldn't be on our list, fumbled everything.
Centre square work was very good.
Did Ed spend anytime in the middle? Seemed to be playing a similar forward role to the start of last year which indicated to me that this was more about giving the young blokes time in the middle than winning.
Weitering was sensational.
I would have been filthy if I was Jack, worked his arse off but how many times did his teammates hit his feet or kick it out on the full with what should have been simple passes.
I feel our game plan is built around having 3 tall forwards and encourages getting the ball in quick and deep. Without these forwards it looked like the structure was lost.

Hard to tell on TV but this is often reflected in the forward 50 entries as no obvious target presents itself and can make it look like the ball carrier is burning the ball when infact they have no viable options.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

skadoosh

Club Legend
May 26, 2011
2,142
7,401
AFL Club
Carlton
Thought I would add a little to give some perspective.

It was a long road trip culminating in them spending 3 hours on the bus before the game due to the traffic. The boys were apparently "over it" before the first ball was even bounced. You could argue this is a bad attitude or that it just didn't mean enough to them.

Make of it what you will.
Are you able to provide any clarification re: the 3 hour trip?
 

Macca43

Premiership Player
Mar 10, 2011
3,767
9,839
AFL Club
Carlton
I feel our game plan is built around having 3 tall forwards and encourages getting the ball in quick and deep. Without these forwards it looked like the structure was lost.

Hard to tell on TV but this is often reflected in the forward 50 entries as no obvious target presents itself and can make it look like the ball carrier is burning the ball when infact they have no viable options.
I agree that having McGovern and McKay in the side would likely have changed both the method (quality forwards attract the ball) and outcome (more likely to take a contested mark) but we still took the wrong option too often when we had time to assess and butchered some of our entries badly.
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
23,670
63,157
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
I didn't say that he was, just that he was one of the biggest offenders. How many of his 6 inside 50's actually resulted in us retaining possession or hitting the scoreboard?

Its not that I "don't rate him" simply that I don't have him "miles ahead" of Dow or Cuningham, on the weekend they all played a similar role, had a similar number of possessions, all did some good things and some bad things but to me Dow and Cuningham looked more likely to make something happen with ball in hand than Gibbons and from the stats I saw on Saturday night Gibbons didn't lay a tackle while the others had multiple - that to me has Gibbons just behind in a tight race, not a "mile ahead".

Newnes didn't impress me at all and I have never had him in my calculations for round 1.

I also went in expecting Williamson to have a shocker based on the comments here but I thought he was pretty solid.
Yeah, this is where we disagree. There is no way that he's "miles ahead" of those other 3 (although they're not competing for the same positions).

Gibbons simply lacks weapons. And when you're as small as him, you need to have a weapon. You say Cunners lacks awareness and game sense, but at least he's dangerous. And when we're talking about a player picked as the 21st or 22nd player, to play mid or forward, I'm taking the guys who is dangerous to the opposition, the player who can make something happen.
Actually, we did this dance recently, not interested in another drawn out debate on "opinions"

Let's see if we can narrow our collective agreement

I have Gibbons being best 22 for round one and the rest of the year. While both of you seem to have him outside your best 26. Agreed?
 

Moody Blue

Premiership Player
May 21, 2012
3,282
3,578
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Seems that way.

No need for excuses for fourth and fifth year players - Setterfield, Kennedy, SPS, Fisher etc.
Not that we're trying to find excuses and I know that Fisher and SPS are keepers, but Setterfield's time is now and he has to be there to support the inside mids
I'm just not keen on him as a flanker that floats forward. Reckon he's better than that and time should show that to be the case.
i don't know why Kennedy is even in the discussion. Cannot recall one game where he had any impact. He will not get selected unless we have a horrendous run with injuries.
 

Moody Blue

Premiership Player
May 21, 2012
3,282
3,578
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Actually, we did this dance recently, not interested in another drawn out debate on "opinions"

Let's see if we can narrow our collective agreement

I have Gibbons being best 22 for round one and the rest of the year. While both of you seem to have him outside your best 26. Agreed?
Gibbons finds the ball, unlike many others who seem to run around the ball, get inside the ball or overrun the ball. Whilst he finds the ball, he plays.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
23,670
63,157
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
I don't just list 26, because once you get outside your 22, it's about who is injured.

Are we replacing Eddie Betts or Harry McKay?
Oh okay the Harker school of players only being able to play one role, forgot

List your best 22 for round 1 and beyond, then you can list 6 emergencies, KPD, medium defender, 2 x midfielders, KPF and a medium forward. That will give you 28 players, let's see where Gibbons sits for you then. Fire away
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,341
83,625
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
i don't know why Kennedy is even in the discussion. Cannot recall one game where he had any impact. He will not get selected unless we have a horrendous run with injuries.
Why? Why not?

Kennedy was recruited to the club with the view of him being an inside midfielder and not a last resort forward.
Setterfield did have more tricks, but it was still an inside mid, that he was primarily recruited to be at the CFC.

Setterfield will get there I feel and even if not as the first called-on mid, he can play a variety of roles....Kennedy? Not so much so.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,341
83,625
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Oh okay the Harker school of players only being able to play one role, forgot

List your best 22 for round 1 and beyond, then you can list 6 emergencies, KPD, medium defender, 2 x midfielders, KPF and a medium forward. That will give you 28 players, let's see where Gibbons sits for you then. Fire away
Don['t be silly. I didn't say that.
I did say though that I'd prefer (I'd prefer) for players to be educated/developed into having key strengths rather than a hot-potch of all sorts.

This is not hard to understand...and please...get it right before you go on the attack.
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
13,791
21,410
AFL Club
Carlton
Oh okay the Harker school of players only being able to play one role, forgot

List your best 22 for round 1 and beyond, then you can list 6 emergencies, KPD, medium defender, 2 x midfielders, KPF and a medium forward. That will give you 28 players, let's see where Gibbons sits for you then. Fire away
I don't think players can only play one role.
A lot of guys would have to be out before I would play Gibbons mid or back, though.

Are you talking best team for round 1, or best team?
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
23,670
63,157
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
Don['t be silly. I didn't say that.
I did say though that I'd prefer (I'd prefer) for players to be educated/developed into having key strengths rather than a hot-potch of all sorts.

This is not hard to understand...and please...get it right before you go on the attack.
Wasn't attacking, it was an actual statement of fact. You believe if a player can't start as a core mid then he is unlikely to play on a flank. Even suggesting that some of our young players will seek a trade so they can play in their preferred roll. Have I misread it now Harks?

Not hard to understand it, is it
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
23,670
63,157
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
I don't think players can only play one role.
A lot of guys would have to be out before I would play Gibbons mid or back, though.

Are you talking best team for round 1, or best team?
Stamos, stop paddling. Name a best 22, for the year if you prefer that, then name 6 emergencies
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
13,791
21,410
AFL Club
Carlton
B: Plow, Jones, Doc
HB: Marchy, Weitering, Samo
C: Ed, Cripps, O'Brien
HF: Martin, McKay, McGovern
F: Jack, Charlie, Betts
Foll: Kreuzer, Walsh, Murphy

Bench: Simpson, Setterfield, Fisher, Cunners

Emergency: Levi, Williamson, Dow
Pittonet, Newnes, Gibbons
Newman, DeKoning, Kennedy
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,341
83,625
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Wasn't attacking, it was an actual statement of fact. You believe if a player can't start as a core mid then he is unlikely to play on a flank. Even suggesting that some of our young players will seek a trade so they can play in their preferred roll. Have I misread it now Harks?

Not hard to understand it, is it
It's not a statement of fact at all. Please get it right.

It seems that some people get all giddy about the prospect of a player playing elsewhere than for where he has plied his trade best.
Marchbank on the wing. Docherty into the midfield. Martin as a midfielder......and on and on....and for what?

I've said it 100 times and I'll say it again; We should take into account the reaction to every action and some will work and some are unlikely to.
That's the way I look at things and I have a good reason to do so.

I'm not going to play this game with you as we've had this dance too many times for anyones favour.
You can think whatever you want to think. This is your prerogative, whether you're ultimately right or wrong.
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
23,670
63,157
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
It's not a statement of fact at all. Please get it right.

It seems that some people get all giddy about the prospect of a player playing elsewhere than for where he has plied his trade best.
Marchbank on the wing. Docherty into the midfield. Martin as a midfielder......and on and on....and for what?

I've said it 100 times and I'll say it again; We should take into account the reaction to every action and some will work and some are unlikely to.
That's the way I look at things and I have a good reason to do so.

I'm not going to play this game with you as we've had this dance too many times for anyones favour.
You can think whatever you want to think. This is your prerogative, whether you're ultimately right or wrong.
Okay Harks, show me one post where ANYONE has suggested DOC should be a full time mid, JUST ONE. You keep throw it out there countless times, yet not one shred of evidence.

And you of all people suggesting people are throwing out unsubstantiated claims

Best we move on, yeah?
 
Last edited:

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
23,670
63,157
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
B: Plow, Jones, Doc
HB: Marchy, Weitering, Samo
C: Ed, Cripps, O'Brien
HF: Martin, McKay, McGovern
F: Jack, Charlie, Betts
Foll: Kreuzer, Walsh, Murphy

Bench: Simpson, Setterfield, Fisher, Cunners

Emergency: Levi, Williamson, Dow
Pittonet, Newnes, Gibbons
Newman, DeKoning, Kennedy
Okay good, at worst, you have Gibbons outside your best 24 if we are considering forward/mids, with Dow and Newnes ahead of him

Thanks for your input

Macca has him outside best 26

Now bounce the ball ffs
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Top Bottom