Game Day Marsh Series, R2: Carlton v Brisbane, Sunday March 8th, 6.40pm (AEDT) @ Ikon Park

[Iamcarlton]

Its all upstairs. Subconsciously there are various gears that elite athletes have. Look at the increase in intensity in the finals V home and away matches. The difference between grand final and other finals. Not such a huge leap to see that there is a difference between preseason and H &A matches.
But is there a switch, I am not sure there is- other than a subconscious one

Think there is but imo that's for seasoned teams that have runs on the board Sydney have been renowned for it in the past mainly through preseason not young developing sides like Carlton .
In Carlton sides imo the switch has flicked on and off way too often over the past 15 odd years .

 

[murphster]

There are not many players that have shown more than for where JSilvagni was selected and that's what should be looked at.

If we had have taken him at #20 after a bid, you would have had a point...............but pick #53? Just a little unfair, it seems.

Even at 20 I would still be happy, well that was about where Cunners went in the same year and Jack is ahead of him.

 

[murphster]

I rewatched the game again and I think definitely Teague was takin the pizz in Q4. These are ( fwiw) my final thoughts

1. Dow actually showed a lot - if he improves his awareness with ball in hand he will be a gun - I reckon 1-2 years when he is bigger he will be.
2. Setterfield was very good defensively not so good with kicking - track watchers aren't wrong about him - yet.
3. Levi was really good much more mobile and I think will work well with Eddie - TDK is a real find / McGivern was better than people make out.
4. Newnes isn't as bad as people are making out
5. Cripps was playing an all over the park role - very mobile
6. Walsh was unbelievable
7. Docherty should take the kick outs - what a boot...
8. Kreuzer dominated for 3/4 and then said enufs enuf already ...
9. Martin is worth it - easy.

We are in pretty good shape - I reckon we are going to scare a lot of teams. ball movement only seen once or twice like that last year- this year we are going to be able to move it fast and I really like teh take the game on through the center options which were unleashed a lot.

How was Docs kick up the middle that hit Dow lace out on the move in the centre square, if Robbos tackle missed Dow was away to the races, just sublime from the Doc.

 

[JustaBattler]

How was Docs kick up the middle that hit Dow lace out on the move in the centre square, if Robbos tackle missed Dow was away to the races, just sublime from the Doc.

I think he booted like a bullet for a good 60-65 meters flat and fast - loved it! As if to say = this is what we are going to do to your forward press BS fellaas...

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

It’s ridiculous because you made up your mind with no evidence 4 years ago, and still hold it

What are you talking about? I have watched him for 4 years, going on 5, and don't see him in the best 22. Again, not sure what's ridiculous about that.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

There are not many players that have shown more than for where JSilvagni was selected and that's what should be looked at.

If we had have taken him at #20 after a bid, you would have had a point...............but pick #53? Just a little unfair, it seems.

I haven't dissed him, slagged him off or said he's crap. Simply said I don't believe he is in the best 22 players at the club and misses my best 22. I don't think Simmo or Kruezer are in it either, but I very much suspect they will all be picked for the large majority of the season, if not all of it.

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[Stamos]

What are you talking about? I have watched him for 4 years, going on 5, and don't see him in the best 22. Again, not sure what's ridiculous about that.

Reread what I quoted

 

[therubbernub]

So why did St Kilda offer him a 2 year contract extension last year?

Doesnt matter. We have found our new whipping boy. Its been tough going since Levi started to kick straight

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Doesnt matter. We have found our new whipping boy. Its been tough going since Levi started to kick straight

He'd be hoping like all **** that Polson and Lang don't get delisted....

 

[therubbernub]

He'd be hoping like all **** that Polson and Lang don't get delisted....

Like corona virus testing- if they dont get a game then they cant be whipped

 

[Love the Drake]

Yes, I am being selective. Had Newnes passed to a player in a better position than he was in (as Murphy did), no worries. Newnes passed to a player who was further from goal and on a worse angle. Does that make Newnes low on confidence/a poor kick? Yes, I think so.



Facts
Newnes came to Carlton with a very big knock on his game - poor disposal/decision-making. Do you know nothing of this?

He was dropped last year by the Saints, twice.

He is now a mature-aged player with no evident room to improve his game.

His praccy match against Brisbane highlighted his poor disposal/decision-making.

Definition of a Hack

A footballer who when he/she gets a game does not have the skill set to compete at the level. Most commonly the inability to compete at the level consists of an inability to make decisions in the time provided, an inability to execute skills under the pressure applied, and/or an inability to compete 1 on 1 with direct opponents.

Newnes comfortably meets the definition.

Yeah yeah. All anecdotal information anyone could look up. It’s obvious you have not followed Newnes’ career as the majority of us haven’t.

I, like you, know very little about Newnes other than he played over 150 games for the Saints, made their leadership group and was out of favour last year.

You, like me, have seen him play 2 or 3 preseason games for Carlton and are basing your judgment on that and what others have said/written


What I do know is that he is a fierce competitor, has a strong body, and elite running ability. Maybe this puts him ahead of more talented youngsters who now have time to develop in the VFL.

I’ll back the MC & coaches judgment over yours every day of the week and look forward to supporting Jack throughout his career at Carlton.

I’m happy to make an informed judgment of his abilities at the end of the year, you’ve made yours already. Hopefully he has a good year and thrives at Carlton.

I’m done now. No need to reply because we are boring others.

 

[norway blue]

Watch him for a few games Windhover . Reserve you’re judgement.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TD2010]

I think our record membership has allowed the club to not need pre-season wins and instead use them as they see fit. I have no doubt that they get linked.

As supporters we have become conditioned to being nervous this time of year needing good signs.

Let's see how were playing after the first 4 rounds

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[Own The Future]

I think our record membership has allowed the club to not need pre-season wins and instead use them as they see fit. I have no doubt that they get linked.

As supporters we have become conditioned to being nervous this time of year needing good signs.

Let's see how were playing after the first 4 rounds

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

That’s a really calm and measured comment.
Totally agree that we should wait and see what happens when the real stuff starts.
I will repeat my concern that - despite more confidence in our record setting membership - I don’t believe we are at a stage in our development where we can afford to give scant regard to the preseason, and expect to be able to go from 50% TOG and trialling players in unfamiliar positions to fully firing and ready to face the reigning Premiers in the space of 10 days.
I’m hoping that at 10:30pm on the 19th I’ll be eating my words - but I doubt I will.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

So why did St Kilda offer him a 2 year contract extension last year?

Same reason they've won one premiership, have the most spoons and are St Kilda?

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Just did a comparison between Newnes and Brandon Ellis who was another option for us at trade time also compared with Kamden McIntosh as he plays similar role and similar age, stats wise he compares pretty evenly with Ellis and is slightly above MacIntosh who plays wing for the premiers, his career DE% is at 74% which is reasonable for a wingman of his age and ability, obviously stats aren’t the be all and end all but are useful when comparing players of a similar age and position.

While he is no Brad Hill or Lachie Whitfield he is a more than serviceable player and I certainly expect his disposal to improve in the regular season and will play the role we traded him in to play while we wait for the younger guys to prove they are a better option.

The difference between Newnes and Ellis is I've seen Newnes play games with very good disposal. Go look at the Murphy vs Carlisle match from a few years ago. Newnes was very close to BOG. Ellis has always been a poor kick.

Not sure what has happened to Newnes in the last 12 months but he has it in him.

 

[blue_trinity]

Yeah I think that’s about right more a specialist stoppage player than a regular starter, but you never know JSOS game is really growing at a good rate, high footy iq and good hands and a ripper of a tackler, if he had a bit more burst speed he’d be deadly, gets up to a fair clip but takes a while to get there.

He’s following a very similar trajectory to Jobe Watson. Slow 3rd talk fwd with strong inside mid traits. Even the wayward kicking is similar early in Jobe’s career.
Let’s hope he turns out to be as good (without assisted help)

 

[Windhover]

Watch him for a few games Windhover . Reserve you’re judgement.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

There are times when judgment should be reserved. There are times when judgment should be delivered.

In the case of Jones I, like practically every poster on BF, formed the view that he was incompetent at AFL level. Eventually he was dropped to the reserves. He was tried at FB and, at that level, performed well. He got back into the senior side only because of injury. He excelled in the new role and all of us who judged him incompetent at AFL have revised our opinion. New facts, new opinion.

In the case of Newnes he departed a lowly club as a mature footballer without any sense of regret from the lowly club. There are no off-field issues suggested, just lack of ability.

Coming to a new club can cause a player to review their approach to footy. The review can lead to very significant improvement. Whilst there is no reason to think that a mature player like Newnes would excel coming to Carlton, there was no reason to think it was impossible.

Newnes detractors (such as me) have raised his poor ball use/decision making. These are "skill" issues. We are not waiting for him to develop a tank or build muscle strength etc etc. 2 games after a full preseason is not an insignificant data base to form a judgment on a mature player. Praccy matches are played in part precisely to enable judgments to be formed as to whether a given player can play a certain role. I assume Newnes went out with instructions to reach certain targets, whether they be defensive running, nullifying an opponent or winning ball. I do not know and do not pretend to know what match targets Newnes was given and whether he met them or not. But if he met any ball use target that was set it is not just Newnes I don't want around.

Nevertheless I (like the MC and everyone else) form judgments of players based on praccy matches. Some of those judgments are suspended (as with TDK) on the "It is too early to tell what he could be." Some judgments, as with Polson and Newnes, there is no plausible basis to suspend. You invite me to reserve judgment. Why? What do I need to see that I haven't already seen? Playing him in the senior side to watch him butcher the ball a la Jordan Russell (who had the skill set but not the mental concentration) or a Kerridge (who had his uses in a very young side and did occasionally kick a decent goal) week in week out in the hope that for no apparent reason he will suddenly hit targets and be adequate with ball in hand seems utterly pointless.

As with any judgment, mine may be wrong. Newnes might improve his ball use and decision-making and become a top 10 finisher in our BnF. Stranger things have happened. It is just not the winning side of the bet. The odds are stacked against.

Finally, playing a mature player with substandard ball skills is just a disaster for a youngish team where everyone is learning to play with each other. A mature player brought in to the team must be predictable to his teammates or he is useless. I do not expect Eddie to fare so well in the season proper when a defender will be assigned to sit on him all day and cover his goal scoring out the back. Eddie is of course highly skilled and, if what he does is anything but predictable, the unpredictable things he does is predictable in their unpredictability to his teammates. He will absorb the attention of a defender and will still contribute to the team. Newnes, if his woeful disposal continues, will be a nightmare not just for supporters like us, it will be a nightmare for teammates too afraid to lead for him because of the risk of being burnt.

 

[ParapMarkets]

That’s a really calm and measured comment.
Totally agree that we should wait and see what happens when the real stuff starts.
I will repeat my concern that - despite more confidence in our record setting membership - I don’t believe we are at a stage in our development where we can afford to give scant regard to the preseason, and expect to be able to go from 50% TOG and trialling players in unfamiliar positions to fully firing and ready to face the reigning Premiers in the space of 10 days.
I’m hoping that at 10:30pm on the 19th I’ll be eating my words - but I doubt I will.

It’s not scant Regard for pre season though. The Freo game was poor, but we hamstrung ourselves against Brisbane in comparison to them. When the whips were cracking early in the game we were all over them, they overran us. We actually played how most other teams did, it’s just we played a team that took full advantage of the extended bench.

I don’t see it as scant regard for pre season, I see it as not being desperate for a win in pre season and wanting to do things our way without worrying if we win or lose. I can understand the worries, we have been a losing team for quite some time, but it’s hard to take much meaning from the results of these games when there is so much experimenting going on and when one team has a lot less rotations Han their opponent.

 

[TD2010]

That’s a really calm and measured comment.
Totally agree that we should wait and see what happens when the real stuff starts.
I will repeat my concern that - despite more confidence in our record setting membership - I don’t believe we are at a stage in our development where we can afford to give scant regard to the preseason, and expect to be able to go from 50% TOG and trialling players in unfamiliar positions to fully firing and ready to face the reigning Premiers in the space of 10 days.
I’m hoping that at 10:30pm on the 19th I’ll be eating my words - but I doubt I will.

Oh I agree, that's why I said give it 4 rounds. Richmond are a super well-drilled team and we'll need a lot to go right. We need to build chemistry, especially within the midfield and between the mids and forwards. Defence is really somid.

Maybe they are acknowledging that it can only really come with playing with 'live amo', proper game time.

Bring it on, corana and all!

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[JustaBattler]

He’s following a very similar trajectory to Jobe Watson. Slow 3rd talk fwd with strong inside mid traits. Even the wayward kicking is similar early in Jobe’s career.
Let’s hope he turns out to be as good (without assisted help)

Interesting observation - I reckon Jack is one of the smartest players we have on the list as far as footy IQ goes- as a forward he is an ordinary mark and kick for goal. I'm more impressed with his field play tbh - he is one of the few we have that is more likely to win/halve a contest with ground ball and stick his tackles - his field kicking is usually very good as opposed to his set shot goal kicking....I can see him as a very good third tall defender or even bigger bodied midfielder as his body fills out - right now his pressure acts and ability to make correct decisions gives him a utility function that will see him play firsts - until (at least) Harry /Charlie become available imo anyway.

 

[murphster]

I think he booted like a bullet for a good 60-65 meters flat and fast - loved it! As if to say = this is what we are going to do to your forward press BS fellaas...

It’s that inate ability to kick it long on a flat and fast trajectory that makes him such a weapon and what we have missed, Teague must just be ecstatic to have him back as he suits and solidifies the game style same goes for Willo they are made to play Teague footy.

I really don’t think it was a coincidence that both the VFL and senior boys went hell for leather Teague transition footy for a half and then put the one wood away for the rest of the game, wanted some practice but didn’t want to show to much for to long, definitely some foxing going on the games were just to similar.

 

[Brackets]

How was Docs kick up the middle that hit Dow lace out on the move in the centre square, if Robbos tackle missed Dow was away to the races, just sublime from the Doc.

Can you remember when it was.

 

[murphster]

Can you remember when it was.

Pretty sure it was in the first half can’t remember exactly when.
Edit: 12:16 in the first