Solved Martin Bryant and Port Arthur

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Dan Baker

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You aren't seriously trying to compare a gun to a car are you?

Cars have legitimate day to day uses, guns dont.
You are not seriously considering fire arms dont have legitimate use either like farmers etc.

I am pro Western Australian model of firearm ownership, nor do I currently own any firearms so have no vested interest in the argument.

Why do you think police are so vigilent on cars? High powered weapons of death killing umpteen people each year.

You might like to look at law abiding car owners versus law abiding fire arm owners.

On top of that nothing has been done about vehicle used as a weapon mitigation such as bollards etc rolled out in the growing number of vehicle massacres
 
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Dan Baker

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Obviously shifting information means there is no means for people to check themselves or research the matter.

Conspracy is to conspire. There is no conspiracy here. The crime is solved and I fully admitted that Bryant committed the crime.

You dont have to look far to see my argument that govt was onselling guns
 

Snake_Baker

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What does that have to do with current conversation?

If you can't even keep track of what you post, then you should give it up.

The rifle was then further sold on by police 'interstate' ending up in Tasmania where the ammunition was not legal, nor avaliable.

............223 (5.56mm) ammo could easily be bought over the counter in Tasmania in 1996 and without a permit. Your claim about the ammunition is flat out incorrect.
 

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kane249

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You are not seriously considering fire arms dont have legitimate use either like farmers etc.

I am pro Western Australian model of firearm ownership, nor do I currently own any firearms so have no vested interest in the argument.

Why do you think police are so vigilent on cars? High powered weapons of death killing umpteen people each year.

You might like to look at law abiding car owners versus law abiding fire arm owners.

On top of that nothing has been done about vehicle used as a weapon mitigation such as bollards etc rolled out in the growing number of vehicle massacres

The legitimate use of firearms in society is limited, farmers and hunters are some of the few professions that need it. The wider majority however don't need them for their day to day which is why gun licenses and restrictions were put in place after Port Arthur.

Cars however are useful for transportation of goods and people for all walks of life, which is why they aren't as restricted.

Or to make it simpler, the primary use of each device when used:

Cars = Transportation
Guns = killing / injuring

There has been an increase in bollards placed in places also in light of the terrorist attacks with cars, but there is only so much you can do.
 

Duritz

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Plenty of people have been drowned by someone while they lay in the bath. Should we remove all baths?
 

Dan Baker

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The legitimate use of firearms in society is limited, farmers and hunters are some of the few professions that need it. The wider majority however don't need them for their day to day which is why gun licenses and restrictions were put in place after Port Arthur.

Cars however are useful for transportation of goods and people for all walks of life, which is why they aren't as restricted.

Or to make it simpler, the primary use of each device when used:

Cars = Transportation
Guns = killing / injuring

There has been an increase in bollards placed in places also in light of the terrorist attacks with cars, but there is only so much you can do.

Lets ban bow and arrows then because they have less legitimate place in society? Bow and arrows don't even have a commercial demand for the purpose of say wild dog control.

Thats a prime example of the way of thinking. Most people do nothing but target shoot with firearms.

Im happy with Western Australias gun laws. Australia gun owners are more law abiding than Australian vehicle owners.
 

Dan Baker

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Whats interesting is.

The source of the rifle was a commercial shooter who handed the rifle into Victorian police for destruction.
The rifle went across state borders through federal customs as government gun dealers.
If you can't even keep track of what you post, then you should give it up.

There has been a lot of original Australian Port Arthur news articles removed from the internet. There is evidence of that.

Yeah that's correct, police sold the handed in firearms to dealers who then would shift them interstate. Police told the farmer as per multitude of links that the firearm would be sent overseas. Government is responsible for firearms being shifted interstate.

Government is responsible for policing firearms not on selling them government should not be on selling them but the Vic government was on selling them at the time.
Bet ya government has been busy burying some that info.

What was the federal government doing? Bugger all, then Howard took the moral high ground. Yes, Im trying to find a source for the ammo being illegal statement. Ill retract it but keep looking.

The firearm allegedly was brand new to some ources, but the farmer claims the mark on Bryants barrel was the same mark the farmers gunsmith put on the barrel. As per the wholesaler, these rifles he could probably count on one hand in Australia.

Ill see if I can find further links seeing as people think the respected farmer is a liar even though I think it was Sunday Night TV he was on with Chris Bath.

I'm putting up links to support my argument. Now Im back on a consistent internet connection and machine Ill do some research. I was on a mobile device in Emirates for a few months. Not a lot of fun on a phone finding sources.

Anyone know the country 'source' that Bryants firearm came from? If it was or wasn't the farmers firearm even though it had the gunsmiths mark, where is the origin source of the firearm the wholesale distributor purchased the rifle from?
Remember, the wholesaler said the rifles were rare as hens teeth.

Sorry, one line, "that's rubbish" doesn't count in an argument Snake_Baker. How about some links to that's rubbish? One line troll statements don't count.

Its been very hard for me to type in a little mobile forum textbox object. Now can do some research and links.
 
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Dan Baker

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Of course police records show the Victorian farmers firearm had been destroyed. Can you imagine if it showed otherwise that the source of the firearm was 'government'. Firearms dealer is what you would expect. But for 'government', its a whole different ball game. That is my whole point.

So acknowledgement that it showed the Victorian farmers firearm existed is true. The farmer said his gunsmiths mark was on Bryant's firearm. So don't tell the firearm didn't exist and wasn't handed into Victorian police. The serial number nigh on identical.

And don't tell me the that the custom firearm wasn't rare as hens teeth by the Australian wholesaler. That much is true. That is no conspiracy. The allegations by the farmer are true.
 
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Dan Baker

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Write or wrong, here is 'some' original Australian media sources for the tinfoil hat mob that said I would only find source for the allegations on a conspiracy site.

V2Tadtg.jpg
 

kane249

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Lets ban bow and arrows then because they have less legitimate place in society? Bow and arrows don't even have a commercial demand for the purpose of say wild dog control.

Thats a prime example of the way of thinking. Most people do nothing but target shoot with firearms.

Im happy with Western Australias gun laws. Australia gun owners are more law abiding than Australian vehicle owners.

Bows are classified as a controlled weapon and use of them are limited:

https://www.archeryessentials.com.au/WesternAustraliaWeaponsRegulations1999.htm

Ie you can pretty much only use them in private property where you have permission from the land owner.

Bows don't have the reload ability of an automatic rifle either so the damage rate is completely different.

You are clutching at straws here.
 

Dan Baker

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Bows are classified as a controlled weapon and use of them are limited:

https://www.archeryessentials.com.au/WesternAustraliaWeaponsRegulations1999.htm

Ie you can pretty much only use them in private property where you have permission from the land owner.

Bows don't have the reload ability of an automatic rifle either so the damage rate is completely different.

You are clutching at straws here.

It ís not only legal to own a bow in WA, it ís whole notch of fun no matter what flavour of the sport you get in to (field, target, bowhunting).

Dont need a licence. You can just go in and buy a bow. You just cant cruise the streets with one.

I can buy a bow at a supermarket with arrows. While they are classed as toys, the power is still undeniable.

Next on the list of non legitimate items is spear-guns and elasticated hand spears. Same principle.

I have relatively no experience with bows apart from hiring a high powered bow a few times at a local hire place in a paddock on a highway with a truck load of arrows.

I could walk into Coles down the street and wipe a few people out before things got serious, or Port Arthur for that matter. Stand in the bushes without a sound knocking people off.

And there is absolutely no legitimate reason for having bows unlike firearms for commercial use. Bows are purely a silent recreational killing machine.

I think its you clutching at straws. You are making propaganda handbook comments.

The reality is very very different for bows. You ever seen a bloke knock off a pack of feral goats with a bow? Or 3 pigs for that matter? Much harder than knocking off Coles customers.

Your comment was that rifles have no legitimate use. Forget the kill rate, the point was, bows have less legitimate right in the community than rifles do as a commercial tool.
 
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Dan Baker

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Did Bryant have a licence that he could purchase the rounds with?

4w9pwBs.jpg


Just waiting for the tourettes brothers to turn up that call everything a conspiracy I say. Seems to be a lot of multiple user names in this forum that personally attack users with little contribution themselves. Gangfest.
 
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yodellinhank

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It ís not only legal to own a bow in WA, it ís whole notch of fun no matter what flavour of the sport you get in to (field, target, bowhunting).

Dont need a licence. You can just go in and buy a bow. You just cant cruise the streets with one.

I can buy a bow at a supermarket with arrows. While they are classed as toys, the power is still undeniable.

Next on the list of non legitimate items is spear-guns and elasticated hand spears. Same principle.

I have relatively no experience with bows apart from hiring a high powered bow a few times at a local hire place in a paddock on a highway with a truck load of arrows.

I could walk into Coles down the street and wipe a few people out before things got serious, or Port Arthur for that matter. Stand in the bushes without a sound knocking people off.

And there is absolutely no legitimate reason for having bows unlike firearms for commercial use. Bows are purely a silent recreational killing machine.

I think its you clutching at straws. You are making propaganda handbook comments.

The reality is very very different for bows. You ever seen a bloke knock off a pack of feral goats with a bow? Or 3 pigs for that matter? Much harder than knocking off Coles customers.

Your comment was that rifles have no legitimate use. Forget the kill rate, the point was, bows have less legitimate right in the community than rifles do as a commercial tool.
Yeah well that's your screwy state.
 

Snake_Baker

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Sorry, one line, "that's rubbish" doesn't count in an argument Snake_Baker. How about some links to that's rubbish? One line troll statements don't count.

Your claim that .223 ammunition could not be purchased in Tasmania in 1996 is rubbish.

I don't understand why you have difficulty coming to terms with this fact.

I make no other claims.
 

Dan Baker

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Dan is going to buy one from the supey and go on a massacre. Because the guvment sold us guns and then took our guns.

You are not reading the posts. More troll one line comments with little substance.

The point is, the government was in the business of on selling firearms. The Victorian farmer stated he had been told this. Government should not be int he business of selling guns. Gun traders are gun traders but government is in the business of monitoring and policing, not selling firearms.

Government deflected culpability with a taxpayer funded gun fest adjusting recreational laws when we have evidence that Bryant hadnt displayed any licence for the purchase a $5000 high powered firearm with rounds. Hes not shooting parrots with a firearm that the wholesaler said is a firearm rare as rocking horse teeth.

Was Bryant licenced or not? Or did Bryant buy a $5000 automatic firearm and rounds under the table?

4w9pwBs.jpg

>
V2Tadtg.jpg
 
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Dan Baker

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Your claim that .223 ammunition could not be purchased in Tasmania in 1996 is rubbish.

I don't understand why you have difficulty coming to terms with this fact.

I make no other claims.
Read the comments, I retracted the comment until I can find evidence that the rounds of calibre were illegal at the time. I made no mention of .223 ammunition. Apart from the fact Bryant may never have had a licence to buy the rounds.
 

Snake_Baker

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Read the comments, I retracted the comment until I can find evidence that the rounds of calibre were illegal at the time. I made no mention of .223 ammunition. Apart from the fact Bryant may never have had a licence to buy the rounds.


.223 ammunition is the thing that makes an AR15 go BANG!
 

Dan Baker

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The legitimate use of firearms in society is limited, farmers and hunters are some of the few professions that need it. The wider majority however don't need them for their day to day which is why gun licenses and restrictions were put in place after Port Arthur.

Cars however are useful for transportation of goods and people for all walks of life, which is why they aren't as restricted.

Or to make it simpler, the primary use of each device when used:

Cars = Transportation
Guns = killing / injuring

There has been an increase in bollards placed in places also in light of the terrorist attacks with cars, but there is only so much you can do.

Guns have a legitimate commercial use and many of them are only used in target practice in recreational use.

Car owners kill more people in Aust than rifles ever will. You do not need a high powered 6 litre turbo to get to work.
 

Snake_Baker

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And no one is answering the questions on the licence, source of the firearms. So were the firearms sourced without a licence displayed?

Crooked cops, of course! Cops are some of the biggest gun freaks in the country.

Dan, I'm prepared to wager that there are literally MILLIONS of unregistered guns in this country.

What is your issue? There's bullshit all over the official story? Of course, there is. People don't believe it? So what, people tend to just go along with the company line, regardless of the evidence against it. You're banging your head against a wall with this stuff.
 

Dan Baker

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Crooked cops, of course! Cops are some of the biggest gun freaks in the country.

Dan, I'm prepared to wager that there are literally MILLIONS of unregistered guns in this country.

What is your issue? There's bullshit all over the official story? Of course, there is. People don't believe it? So what, people tend to just go along with the company line, regardless of the evidence against it. You're banging your head against a wall with this stuff.

Queensland had bargain bins full of rifles. Im going to bet that too.

More than 100 illegally imported guns still missing in Australia as fears grow they are in hands of underworld figures.
http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...s/news-story/f1085f6f3b0d51452adc870258fadfef
http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...s/news-story/f1085f6f3b0d51452adc870258fadfef
A post office licensee charged with importing 150 Glock pistols has been refused bail.

Andrew Botros, 30, is facing seven charges including importing 150 Glock pistols, unlawfully selling 150 firearms and obtaining more than $37,500 by deception from Australia Post.

Another alleged ringleader, Koder Elali, appeared briefly in Burwood Local Court today.

The 27-year-old telecommunications technician appeared unshaven and wore a beige hooded jumper as he sat in the dock.

His lawyers did not apply for bail, which was formally refused.

He will next appear in Central Local Court on May 8.

A 21-year-old man was due to appear at Sutherland Local Court today.

Police allege he was an employee at an import business that received some of the illegal pistols.

Police said that a Glock pistol seized in January was the only one they had found of the Glock 220 pistols they believe were imported into Sydney in the previous three months.

"This isn't just a border security issue, this is a national security issue," Mr Scipione told reporters in Sydney.

"It is something that we need to understand is a major concern, not only to law enforcement; it should be to every person that lives in this nation because guns coming into our community are nothing short of weapons that are used to kill and maim."

NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell said the seizure showed how easily guns were making their way into Australia, and attacked the federal government for not doing more.

"It highlights how porous our borders have been, just how easily criminals have been able to import guns from overseas into this state and into this country and it's about time the federal government acted," he told reporters.

"It shouldn't be the role of NSW Police to engage in border protection to stop guns coming into NSW.

"This is a federal responsibility."

NSW Police Minister Michael Gallacher also said it highlighted a broader issue.

"Police will detail ... in the coming days the full magnitude of what they have identified, what they have stopped and quite simply had the federal government acted earlier what could have been stopped," he said.

NSW Opposition Leader John Robertson said police had succeeded despite the state government's lack of action in tackling the spate of drive-by shootings.

"Despite the O'Farrell government not providing enough police on our streets, and not properly resourcing our cops, they're doing a great job with the limited resources that they've got," Mr Robertson told reporters in Sydney.

"We need more police in south-western and western Sydney.

"Great work by the police in difficult circumstances, where they are under resourced."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/post-office-worker-accused-of-importing-150-glock-pistols-20120314-1uzwe.html

Meanwhile Howard cut budgets on customs and policing. Laws are useless if they are not policed. Law then actually has the opposite effect.http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...s/news-story/f1085f6f3b0d51452adc870258fadfef
 
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Dan Baker

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If the Victorian farmer said police told him the rifle would be on sold, and Bryant bought that custom 'battle' rifle which is rare as hens teeth without a licence but similar serial numbers.

Government should not be in the business of gun procurement. Whether it ws the source of the rifle or not.

V2Tadtg.jpg
 
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