Solved Martin Bryant and Port Arthur

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Snake_Baker

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100?

There would be private individual collections bigger than that.

Eliminating guns is like eliminating drugs. Impossible.
 

Angus Young

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except guns are a lot harder to get than drugs.

I´ve seen so many loose units snap in the heat of the moment over the years It´s just lucky there were no guns lying around.

If guns were as easy as going into Kmart and buying one as they are in the states or just laying around in houses like they are in the states you can bet your bottom dollar homicides and suicides would be at a a new level.
 
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MisterMarcus

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I don't even know what this thread is about any more.

One Victorian farmer claims that he thinks the serial number on a gun might be the same as one he handed in = nation-wide conspiracy by cops and government to sell guns on the black market and deliberately arm lunatics because........reasons.

Or something....
 

Kynge of Begrem

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That means nothing without seeing the sources - who said 'Port Arthur rifle came from police'? It is in quotes for a reason.
 

Snake_Baker

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That means nothing without seeing the sources - who said 'Port Arthur rifle came from police'? It is in quotes for a reason.


It's pretty well known that this is the case. The court transcript can tell you about it. The gun in question was handed in at an amnesty.
 

Dan Baker

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Also, its the same media article quoted twice...

Yeah quoted from a book. Media have taken down the plethora of articles. Unlike days gone by where a published article stayed for good. People asked for mainstream sources. They got a couple of articles

The articles have gone but some of the sources are still there. :)

There was a TV doco on about the farmer too.

The article will be quoted twice as different source pages

I believe the original source which people doubted which is an extract from another newspaper was shifted to conspiracy thread if you want to read it. I haven't checked.

There is no conspiracy about government on selling the firearms such as a $5000 firearm. Although in this case Victorian police reported the firearm destroyed, the farmer swears the mark on the barrel was created by his gunsmith.

The serial numbers were nearly the same. A gunsmith can clean it up like new.

These firearms are rare as hens teeth in Australia.

My point is, government shouldn't have been on selling firearms, even if they were out the country to make a buck.

V2Tadtg.jpg
 
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Dan Baker

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Yeah, now the Howard amnesty happened, everyone handed in old guns for contemporary technology, and more firearms than ever.

So did Bryant have a licence to buy firearm and ammunition or was he a criminal? If he bought the rifle brand new. Seeing as the firearm is brand new and rare as hens teeth, where did the firearm come from?

tj3gNxF.jpg


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Dan Baker

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Extraction from the articles. You are all calling the farmer a liar? To reiterate, I know boofhead did the shooting. No argument there.

A crooked cop? Or it was onsold to a gun dealer who shipped it interstate from Victoria to Tasmania.

But a government should know where this 'battle' weapon was being shipped interstate Australia.

Maybe it was brand new. But where did it come from? Which country? It has a serial number.

The farmer (Mr Drysdale) told police that a mark on the barrel of the Port Arthur weapon described to him by Inspector Maxwell, matched a mark on his rifle made by his gunsmith.
"My rifle also had a collapsible stock and a Colt sight, just as the massacre weapon has," he said.

"I did the right thing and handed the weapon in and if the police put it back into the Australian community I would be disgusted.

Mr Drysdale "They told me it would be sent overseas and used for military purposes."


A spokesman for one of Australia's largest firearms importers said that the firearms matching the Port Arthur weapon were as "scarce as hen's teeth" and the chances of two identical weapons with almost identical serial numbers being imported were "next to nothing".
 
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Snake_Baker

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thanks - not what I would call compelling evidence.

Okay, let's spin this around.

Can you provide a credible refutation? There's nothing compelling about believing that some coppers pinch stuff. VicPol has a dedicated investigative department for this purpose.
 

craigos

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I know whenever I am looking for a credible source I always head to South East Asian News.
Why is it that all these "conspiracy" type places have websites that look like they're designed in Notepad?
 

Kynge of Begrem

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Okay, let's spin this around.

Can you provide a credible refutation? There's nothing compelling about believing that some coppers pinch stuff. VicPol has a dedicated investigative department for this purpose.
As with all these things, it is up to the party making the claim to provide the evidence. I don't see any compelling evidence that would make this claim credible.
 

Snake_Baker

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As with all these things, it is up to the party making the claim to provide the evidence. I don't see any compelling evidence that would make this claim credible.


This stuff is fairly well known and has been online for at least a decade.

I would assume any decent refutation would have emerged by now.

With this in mind my tendency would be to:

- Believe Mr Drysdales account, in as much that HE believes it is the same gun.
- Believe VicPol firearm records were inept
- Give very slight credibility to any unnamed experts (gun accessories)
- Have no doubt that coppers could pinch guns
- I don't give any credence to a police/Martin Bryant conspiracy in the massacre. If it's the same rifle, then it's pure coincidence.

At the end of the day the account is reasonable circumstantial evidence.

As for the whole Port Arthur official account, it has some glaring holes in it. I don't buy certain parts of the official story. However, if it is a conspiracy then I have to concede that I have no logical conclusion as to what it is about.
 

Kynge of Begrem

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There was a refutation by the police in the article you posted.

If it was found to be the case by the coroner, then it would have credence, but all we have is a farmer saying it was his gun, with a different serial number, apparently on the basis of a mark on the barrel.
 

Dan Baker

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I have explained in detail that media have removed a lot of their articles, hence there is credible sources but a lot gone. But people keep rabbiting on about other sources in a desperate bid to discredit the information.

They had the farmer on tv. Where was everyone? Are people calling the farmer a liar?

1. I have asked where the gun came from???

2. I have asked, did Bryant have a licence???

All I have is people dodging the questions and trying to find original sources that have been removed, but I have credible source, and references to books.

Why are people dodging the questions? Everyone knows the case but cant answer the simple questions.

V2Tadtg.jpg

tj3gNxF.jpg
 
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Dan Baker

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There was a refutation by the police in the article you posted.

If it was found to be the case by the coroner, then it would have credence, but all we have is a farmer saying it was his gun, with a different serial number, apparently on the basis of a mark on the barrel.

Yep, there certainly is, the serial numbers are very close together and police cant give a date for destruction when the farmer was told the firearm would be sent overseas.
On top of this, the wholesaler is concerned there may not have been more than one of these firearms in the country.

Now, for the farmer to go on television, and dispute this in such a large catastrophic case, I don't think the farmer is lying in saying that the police told him the firearm would be sent overseas.
I don't think the farmer is lying about the particular after market scope he had on the firearm, the same scope as the Port Arthur firearm. And a mark made on the barrel by his gunsmith.

Sure, someones ticked the box in police records, that the firearm was destroyed in 'Victoria'. But there is no police date for destruction of 'weapons'

But there is another matter. Did Bryant have a licence? Did he show that licence?
 
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Dan Baker

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Put all the sources and farmer stuff behind. Forget that.

1. Where was the country of origin of Terry Hills procurement of the rare as hens teeth AR15? = serial number

The government must know. In a massacre, the government must know the whole supply chain.
The custom rare as hens teeth brand spankin new AR15 has a serial number. There has to be a paper trail for tax purposes. Never mind the obvious tracing of a high powered weapon for criminal activity. You don't order custom rare as hens teeth AR15s in bulk boxes for bargain bins.

Bryant paid cash!

2. Did Bryant have a licence to purchase a $5500 high powered custom AR15 and ammunition? Was the licence presented at purchase?
 
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kane249

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I have explained in detail that media have removed a lot of their articles, hence there is credible sources but a lot gone. But people keep rabbiting on about other sources in a desperate bid to discredit the information.

They had the farmer on tv. Where was everyone? Are people calling the farmer a liar?

1. I have asked where the gun came from???

2. I have asked, did Bryant have a licence???

All I have is people dodging the questions and trying to find original sources that have been removed, but I have credible source, and references to books.

Why are people dodging the questions? Everyone knows the case but cant answer the simple questions.

V2Tadtg.jpg

tj3gNxF.jpg

Your own screenshot answers your question on if he had a license or not so what's the point of asking it?

No he didn't, but restrictions on firearms were also a lot more lax before Port Arthur also.

The only silver lining of that dreadful day was that obtaining guns in this country are now a lot harder and there's been no mass shooting since then.

Compare this to the US who's gun laws are well known and a simple Dallas Cowboys watching party the other day resulted in 8 people shot dead after a disagreement. I will repeat, 8 people shot dead over a disagreement on a football game, be glad Australia doesn't have that same gun culture which allows easy access.
 

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