Movie Marvel Cinematic Universe - News, updates and discussion

[phantom13]

I sincerely hope Wandavision was an anomoly in terms of poor writing and red herrings.

Marvel hasnt generally done that.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

‘WandaVision’: Elizabeth Olsen and Jac Schaeffer on Wanda’s Kids, Fan Theories and the Future of the Show

SPOILER ALERT: Do not read if you haven’t seen “The Series Finale,” the ninth and final episode of “WandaVision” on Disney Plus. From their very first meeting about &#…

variety.com

They still seem pretty happy with themselves about the use of Evan Peters. Even Matt Shakman was laughing about it on Fatman Beyond.

The writer said she naively didnt think people would speculate that much about it. Well Fiege would have known. I think as a sign of goodwill they should release Black Widow free on disney+ none of this premier access BS.

Seriously though for months ive been thinking Tobey and Garfield will be in the next Spider-man. Now im not so sure even though they said thats a multiverse movie. I dont see how that happens now as I was thinking this whole time the multiverse would come into play in Wandavision but it didnt happen. Logically it would be better of starting in Dr Strange 2 but Spider-man comes out first.

As long as the forgotten mystery of who the person in witness protection (or whatever it was) Woo was after in the first episodes remains, then the rumours on "Fietro" will too.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Seriously though for months ive been thinking Tobey and Garfield will be in the next Spider-man. Now im not so sure even though they said thats a multiverse movie. I dont see how that happens now as I was thinking this whole time the multiverse would come into play in Wandavision but it didnt happen. Logically it would be better of starting in Dr Strange 2 but Spider-man comes out first.

I think they’ll be in there but like the scene in GOTG2 where Rocket steps through multiple portals and we see Stan and the Watchers, I expect this is where we will see the snippet of a multiverse/spider verse....a blink and you’ve missed it scenario.

 

[Ryz]

I sincerely hope Wandavision was an anomoly in terms of poor writing and red herrings.

Marvel hasnt generally done that.

Something that stood out in the article vast posted.

I couldn’t have anticipated… I don’t know, maybe Mary Livanos and Kevin Feige are like, “Yeah, it’s like this every time.” But I’m like, these theories are crazy! [Laughing] So it wasn’t that was not part of my thinking, and also, that’s not my department. I am lucky enough that I get to hear about the other projects and sometimes I’m involved and their conversations. I know a little bit about all the things that Lizzie’s been up to. But that’s a bigger, fancier thing, what you’re asking about.

DC rightly get hammered for how they've constructed the DCEU, but this is next level facepalm.

Based on what the writers served up I'm not surprised, but I'm tempering my expectations now on future Marvel content. I hope it's not a situation with Marvel where Feige is spreading himself thin and everyone is getting hammered at Marvel to churn out content.

I mean, CW/Warner Bros of all people handled cross universe cameos far better.


This says a lot (IMO I don't think they're comparable in the sense of fan expectation)

 

[Loonerty]

The Bohner thing was lame as but I didn't mind it really. People getting annoyed cos it didn't go the way they thought it would isn't bad writing.

 

[phantom13]

The Bohner thing was lame as but I didn't mind it really. People getting annoyed cos it didn't go the way they thought it would isn't bad writing.

No but very deliberating building stuff up for no outcome is. They did that on a few occasions in wandavision.

 

[Quivorir]

Did they build stuff up or did everyone speculating about it build it up?

 

[pantskyle]

Did they build stuff up or did everyone speculating about it build it up?

This.

 

[glenferry23]

Like many things, the truth is somewhere in the middle. I’m guilty of building it up further than what it was actually intended to be (I thought the multiverse would finally be on).

At the same time, purposely acquiring Peters for the part to then ultimately reduce him to a dick joke was very poorly done.

 

[Ryz]

Entertainment is a subjective medium, if people enjoyed Wandavision, more power to them.

I guess people including myself looked too much into Feige's comment of DS2 "connecting directly to the events of Wandavision" + Peters making the connection of the Multiverse. Don't think they were unreasonable jumps though.

Once you take away the red herrings and easter eggs, there isn't a hell of a lot of substance to a 9 episode show IMO.

MCU content is pretty cookie cutter popcorn fare that usually you can turn your brain off. Just think it was disappointing that they looked to be risky and try something new, and it ended up being even more paint by numbers than what Marvel usually produce.

 

[vast]

Entertainment is a subjective medium, if people enjoyed Wandavision, more power to them.

I guess people including myself looked too much into Feige's comment of DS2 "connecting directly to the events of Wandavision" + Peters making the connection of the Multiverse. Don't think they were unreasonable jumps though.

Once you take away the red herrings and easter eggs, there isn't a hell of a lot of substance to a 9 episode show IMO.

MCU content is pretty cookie cutter popcorn fare that usually you can turn your brain off. Just think it was disappointing that they looked to be risky and try something new, and it ended up being even more paint by numbers than what Marvel usually produce.

If we knew it was going to be just a character piece then I think it was good in that regard. Its like Falcon and Winter Soldier apart from a few known appearances they have announced, they have set no expectations for that show is about so we can just enjoy for what it is.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Did they build stuff up or did everyone speculating about it build it up?

Exactly - it's no coincidence basically all of the stuff people are disappointed didn't happen is stuff that was filtered out by alleged ITK's across the shows run.

The only exception IMO the Evan Peters stuff because that's basic jump to conclusion stuff, regardless it's still open ended until it isn't. His abrupt exit from the show makes me think something was cut late.

 

[pantskyle]

We got White Vision and a great Agatha. You be fools for not being happy.

 

[iBeng]

We got White Vision and a great Agatha. You be fools for not being happy.

They would nit pick even if they did the entire X-Men and F4 reveal in the series because "They tried to do too much, they crammed it, what a waste, save it for a movie!"

 

[phantom13]

I am also as guilty as anyone with the over speculation but wandavision deliberately laid a ton of breadcrumbs and then did nothing with them, the Dottie plotline and scenes are one of many examples, there was no speculation until they had the scene with her, that’s purely writing that had no conclusion.

Everyone seems pretty desperate to blame the fans here and we certainly have some stuff to answer for but a lot of the writing started lines that ultimately went nowhere

 

[glenferry23]

Entertainment is a subjective medium, if people enjoyed Wandavision, more power to them.

I guess people including myself looked too much into Feige's comment of DS2 "connecting directly to the events of Wandavision" + Peters making the connection of the Multiverse. Don't think they were unreasonable jumps though.

I maintain the series was still excellent overall, with a somewhat “serviceable” finale on the back of some fantastic consecutive episodes just prior.

If this was released when originally planned a year or so ago, I do wonder if it would have generated the same amount of theories etc that it did (which ultimately led to false expectations).

I think this has been exacerbated by a COVID environment. Much of the show mirrors what many people have experienced on differing scales: coping alone, periods of isolation, a sense of loss, grief etc.

Movies and entertainment provide a great gateway of escapism from this kind of thing, and even that has been heavily impacted with multiple delays across the industry. 2020 was the first time since 2009 that there was no new MCU content released.

The hype and anticipation was palpable, for something new, and perhaps off the back of The Mandalorian and how good a surprise payoff was delivered there, people (rightly or wrongly) thought Disney had another ace up their sleeve for this.

Hence, a couple of throwaway “my aerospace engineer friend” lines would’ve been pretty harmless a year or so ago. But now, given the circumstances, it was on like donkey kong trying to figure out who is coming in. I’m definitely guilty of things getting carried away in that regard, I was very much hoping for a Lehnsherr reference as you know.

Having acknowledged all of that, all of the hastiness of the fan theories and indulging in the speculation etc, there’s still plenty that the creators did to underpin that as well. It’s already been said so won’t go over those examples again. And again, at the time of production it probably would’ve landed differently.

I’ve read that there was originally planned to be a tenth episode, however production was impacted by COVID and hence it was condensed to nine, can see certain story elements that were merely overlooked or cut short.

However I still maintain the Peters decision was a poor decision. It literally could’ve been filled by any actor. To tease the multiverse over this time, Earth 616 referenced in FFH, and then relegate him to a boner gag is something that I’m still scratching my head about.

 

[peternorth]

Did they build stuff up or did everyone speculating about it build it up?

Bit of both.

As i mentioned earlier i think, throughout the movies saga they dropped in stan lee. Then it became a game of who can spot stan lee first in the next movie. Then that was going to lose its lustre, so what next? fire up clues in the credits. Fire starts to die down, do something else.

But when watching a movie you cant stop and comment on social media, so things move fast. but here in the covid normal life we get episodes once a week. Lots of time to look for easter eggs, and draw conclusions based on tidbits.

I remember when heads turned jon snow parentage, people were doing algebra R + L = J. It became all compassing. Suddenly it was like a bag of scrabble letters!

 

[iBeng]

Bit of both.

As i mentioned earlier i think, throughout the movies saga they dropped in stan lee. Then it became a game of who can spot stan lee first in the next movie. Then that was going to lose its lustre, so what next? fire up clues in the credits. Fire starts to die down, do something else.

But when watching a movie you cant stop and comment on social media, so things move fast. but here in the covid normal life we get episodes once a week. Lots of time to look for easter eggs, and draw conclusions based on tidbits.

I remember when heads turned jon snow parentage, people were doing algebra R + L = J. It became all compassing. Suddenly it was like a bag of scrabble letters!

This isnt a great example, they winged the last two seasons, the books will likely make it a far more important link than the show did. The show really screwed the pooch hard on so much buildup.

 

[JackOutback]

WandaVision was fine; as someone not versed in the comic books and not going online after episodes scouring theories, it was very enjoyable. It’s a character piece about Wanda dealing with her grief while offering up a bit of additional lore.

I guess people including myself looked too much into Feige's comment of DS2 "connecting directly to the events of Wandavision" + Peters making the connection of the Multiverse. Don't think they were unreasonable jumps though.

Fiege also said outright that the TV shows wouldn’t be compulsory viewing for the movies so expecting them to drop major story beats like the multiverse in the show was definitely expecting too much. I took the Evan Peters casting as an in joke and it landed beautifully.

 

[pantskyle]

Bit of both.

As i mentioned earlier i think, throughout the movies saga they dropped in stan lee. Then it became a game of who can spot stan lee first in the next movie. Then that was going to lose its lustre, so what next? fire up clues in the credits. Fire starts to die down, do something else.

But when watching a movie you cant stop and comment on social media, so things move fast. but here in the covid normal life we get episodes once a week. Lots of time to look for easter eggs, and draw conclusions based on tidbits.

I remember when heads turned jon snow parentage, people were doing algebra R + L = J. It became all compassing. Suddenly it was like a bag of scrabble letters!

Stan Lee wasn't exactly hidden and his cameos in Marvel films go back well before any Disney movies. The after-credit scenes existed at the same time as Lee's cameos in the Disney movies.

 

[peternorth]

Stan Lee wasn't exactly hidden and his cameos in Marvel films go back well before any Disney movies. The after-credit scenes existed at the same time as Lee's cameos in the Disney movies.

Yes it’s about doing somethjgg different. The films have evolved to a point that were now seeing so called red herrings or misdirects

 

[phantom13]

It’s ironic, people that enjoyed the show are adamant anyone who didn’t was reading online theories and looking too much into it.

Honestly I didn’t read much online about the show, the bettany tweet and the Olsen tease were pretty much it.

I honestly think the elements I didn’t like were all confined to the show itself and the writing and plot choices. They just started a lot of threads that ultimately went nowhere. That’s got nothing to do with being a superfan and trying to find clues in every scene, that’s seeing what the showrunners put in front of us and seeing it amount to nothing. The first two eps were genuinely filler. Even the weird staggered post credits scenes, have them or don’t. It was ultimately an okay show with good performances but it was pretty unrewarding for it what it was.

 

[pantskyle]

Yes it’s about doing somethjgg different. The films have evolved to a point that were now seeing so called red herrings or misdirects

That's not what you said though.

 

[peternorth]

That's not what you said though.

I agree

 

[glenferry23]

It’s ironic, people that enjoyed the show are adamant anyone who didn’t was reading online theories and looking too much into it.

Honestly I didn’t read much online about the show, the bettany tweet and the Olsen tease were pretty much it.

I honestly think the elements I didn’t like were all confined to the show itself and the writing and plot choices. They just started a lot of threads that ultimately went nowhere. That’s got nothing to do with being a superfan and trying to find clues in every scene, that’s seeing what the showrunners put in front of us and seeing it amount to nothing. The first two eps were genuinely filler. Even the weird staggered post credits scenes, have them or don’t. It was ultimately an okay show with good performances but it was pretty unrewarding for it what it was.

Agreed. It does tend to lead to people drawing absolute conclusions on which “side” you’ve landed on.

It’s somewhere in the middle as I mentioned before. There certainly was some overzealous theories and picking apart every minor detail etc that was happening around. Didn’t participate in that and thankfully am not even on twitter as I imagine it was very active there.

There were certainly a few threads created by the storytellers that ultimately weren’t fulfilled. For various reasons.

I do appreciate the impact the COVID shutdown would’ve had on the way the series was then edited down, it did seem like there was perhaps more to film that they were unable to once the pandemic hit. Hence dropping from 10 episodes to 9.

Some of the little things probably would’ve been ironed out in that case, such as who the missing person was that Woo was tasked with finding. Overall, did it really matter? Probably no, it’s perhaps an inconsequential answer in the grand scheme of things.

But raising it and then not answering it is a tad odd - reminded me of The Rise Of Skywalker where Finn said a few times he wants to tell Rey something, but then never does. It just seems.....odd. Hardly a dealbreaker, but at the same time I think it’s a valid question to raise in the wash up.