Player Watch Mason Cox

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I hope you don’t mind the intrusion. But I couldn’t help but notice, would he much better as a defender than a forward. He could easily play a Jeremy McGovern intercepting role. Additionally, he would not be tagged by two or more , player to prevent him from taking marks. Collingwood already have a lot in the forward line , and perhaps he could even do a position swap with someone like Howe : who played as a forward at Melbourne.

Just a suggestion though.


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loki04

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It isn't Cox's fault that he often ends up 1-3 or that his team mates kick it to him in those situations. Where are the opponents of the spares manning Cox? What are they doing to take advantage of their opponent sagging off? Why aren't they presenting as an alternate target? Why aren't they impacting at the foot of the contest to take advantage of the halved contest?
It's not his fault he ends up in 1v3 (that also wasn't my point you changed the context that was used in) but it is his fault in the many 1v1 he just does not compete in. There were many and often at critical times.


The point is there is no benefit to having a guy "halve a contest" for there to only be a set up of opposition around him waiting for it. This argument that it alone is a pivotal stat and role (and that its doesn't matter if he does sweet fa around that) is redundant when scrutinised properly.
 
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Jen2310

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I hope you don’t mind the intrusion. But I couldn’t help but notice, would he much better as a defender than a forward. He could easily play a Jeremy McGovern intercepting role. Additionally, he would not be tagged by two or more , player to prevent him from taking marks. Collingwood already have a lot in the forward line , and perhaps he could even do a position swap with someone like Howe : who played as a forward at Melbourne.

Just a suggestion though.


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He definitely would be tall enough. Not sure whether they have tried him back in the early days or not. Or maybe they figured they would like to have a tall forward. Obviously before he came into the team on a regular basis, he was mostly playing Ruck with some forward time? I'm trying to recall how he played in the VFL. But no less, it is a interesting observation.
 

jackcass

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and how many key forwards are out marked without making a contest regularly?


This is the worst stat in football oh he halved the contest....yeah great given that there are 3 Geelong players ready for it.

How often do we benefit from this halved contest? I'd suggest more opposition rebounds then us creating scoring opportunities from it. And if its to reset and give a throw up then that also helps the defensive team more as they can get numbers back.


Ridiculous deflection stat.
It isn't Cox's fault that he often ends up 1-3 or that his team mates kick it to him in those situations. Where are the opponents of the spares manning Cox? What are they doing to take advantage of their opponent sagging off? Why aren't they presenting as an alternate target? Why aren't they impacting at the foot of the contest to take advantage of the halved contest?
It's not his fault he ends up in 1v3 (that also wasn't my point you changed the context that was used in) but it is his fault in the many 1v1 he just does not compete in. There were many and often at critical times.

The point is there is no benefit to having a guy "halve a contest" for there to only be a set up of opposition around him waiting for it. This argument that it alone is a pivotal stat and role (and that its doesn't matter if he does sweet fa around that) is redundant when scrutinised properly.
Sorry, when you include statements like that I just assume that they're used to emphasise a point and are therefore relevant to the context.... silly me.
 

loki04

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Hmmmmm! So you appear to keep saying. Doesn't matter if it was the point you were making, it's the aspect of what you've posted I responded to. Are you suggesting you didn't make the initial reference?
Yes I said it in relation to posters claiming that he despite when playing poorly is playing a pivotal role in halving the contest.

This is defunct though when opposition constantly set up for it and often have numbers around him.

Get it?
 

Black_White

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Cox up forward. Needs to make hard leads more often. It’s not only that his teammates drop it in his head, he calls for that option to many times.
Hard lead, drop the ball high 5 metres in front of him...unstoppable.
On top of that, he needs to learn that this is a contact sport and he is a big boy. It ain’t basketball Mason.
 

eddiesmith

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I was surprised to see him get a few free kicks on Friday night, unsurprisingly that didn't last!

Unfortunately for him, this 6-6-6 rubbish doesn't stop the game becoming a congested mess after the centre bounce so he will get the benefit if we get a quick clearance, otherwise its the usual where his best usually comes late in the game when everyone is tiring and they can't get the jump on him as he did against Brisbane last year where he was rubbish for most of the game but stood up when it counted

He could become a dominant player if we could work out how to keep him isolated 1 on 1 close to goal, but opposition coaches wont allow it and it suits us better to have numbers down back at the other end anyway
 

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jackcass

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Yes I said it in relation to posters claiming that he despite when playing poorly is playing a pivotal role in halving the contest.

This is defunct though when opposition constantly set up for it and often have numbers around him.

Get it?
For the record, I completely understood your point. For the record, I think you're the one who is incorrectly minimizing the benefits of "at a minimum, he halves the contest". It's either win, lose or draw and by "at least halving the contest" it means he isn't losing it. If you understood anything about footy you'd know that the issue with Cox and whether he's playing well or badly isn't anything to do with "halving a contest", it's being denied access to the contest. And if you'd taken even a fraction of the time you've used being your typical point scoring arsehole self and addressed even 1 of the points I'd made this would be a discussion instead of me just telling you to go f#€£ yourself, your not worth the effort.

I'll leave it there safe in the knowledge that once again, you're just wrong and can't argue a case without the snark.

Get it?
 
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loki04

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For the record, I completely understood your point. For the record, I think you're the one who is incorrectly minimizing the benefits of "at a minimum, he halves the contest". It's either win, lose or draw and by "at least halving the contest" it means he isn't losing it. If you understood anything about footy you'd know that the issue with Cox and whether he's playing well or badly isn't anything to do with "halving a contest", it's being denied access to the contest. And if you'd taken even a fraction of the time you've used being your typical point scoring arsehole self and addressed even 1 of the points I'd made this would be a discussion instead of me just telling you to go f#€£ yourself, your not worth the effort.

I'll leave it there safe in the knowledge that once again, you're just wrong and can't argue a case without the snark.

Get it?

Snark that you use in your posts you mean? and for the record no you didn't get it, as you took a snippet of an overall conversation on him as the basis for a misguided clip. Hence the context of how and why it was used.

Other people were arguing his role in the team is to just halve the contest and it matters little of what he does around that, I then expanded on why imo that is a fools gold stat that is used to justify his non dropping last year (over many posts) after weeks of non performing...so again you have missed the point come in firing like usual and got off mark.

Get it?

And btw I hope he comes out and has a big game after all the original point was that he needs to improve.
 

jackcass

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As usual, the basic concepts of a discussion fail you. I was fully aware of the conversation but when you raise a specific aspect and someone queries it, it isn't ignoring the conversation, it's taking it on a natural progression. I'm sorry the concept is beyond your simple grasp. I'll type slower for you in future, use bigger type, and avoid asking questions you're obviously incapable of addressing.
 

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jackcass loki04

I see the merit in both opinions and whilst I err towards loki’s thinking the ground level players need to be held accountable for not making position. The question I have is whether they’re even instructed to be at those contests?

Personally I don’t want the acceptable standard to be halfing contests because that to me is a given for a KPF. Like a ruckman should contest ruck contests or a midfielder should be able to win their own ball that’s what forwards do. The problem I have with Cox’s development is that I’ve never seen a guy with such a reach advantage, get both hands to it and drop as many as he does. Given his handspan it actually confuses me that it’s even possible. I mean he should be able to clunk 4-5 a game even if he’s trying to drop them...

If we’re taking jack’s assessment that it’s acceptable to be halving contests I think the club needs to expose Lynch if Cox’s marking form continues over the next few weeks. Because Lynch will provide that too and his scope is at least on par with Cox.
 

jackcass

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jackcass loki04

I see the merit in both opinions and whilst I err towards loki’s thinking the ground level players need to be held accountable for not making position. The question I have is whether they’re even instructed to be at those contests?

Personally I don’t want the acceptable standard to be halfing contests because that to me is a given for a KPF. Like a ruckman should contest ruck contests or a midfielder should be able to win their own ball that’s what forwards do. The problem I have with Cox’s development is that I’ve never seen a guy with such a reach advantage, get both hands to it and drop as many as he does. Given his handspan it actually confuses me that it’s even possible. I mean he should be able to clunk 4-5 a game even if he’s trying to drop them...

If we’re taking jack’s assessment that it’s acceptable to be halving contests I think the club needs to expose Lynch if Cox’s marking form continues over the next few weeks. Because Lynch will provide that too and his scope is at least on par with Cox.
I have said a lot about Cox over the journey but what I actually said was that at a minimum, he halves those aerial contests which is certainly not the same as saying it's acceptable. If asked I say it's short of acceptable but preferable to losing them.

My query on this though was the assertion that it's a moot point halving the contest if it results in a 1v2 or 1v3 when the ball hits the ground. That's an unfair critisism of Cox because if that occurs the knock more correctly should be on either the work rate or decision making of team mates. Get those aspects right and we saw last season what can happen in the ensuing mayhem of a halved contest with matched numbers at the fall of the footy or we more appropriately use the +1 or 2 created through Cox being double or triple teamed.

Cox had a poorer night Friday night but I think much of that should be slated elsewhere given our shoddy ball movement and overall poor work rate. Overall, Cox has improved his contested marking (16-1.4pg, 17-1.6, 18-2.5) and we need to see that continued growth again this year.

I'm impressed by Lynch's development but think Cox still has him covered and he's got enough runs on the board to deserve more than 1 strike your out.
 

jackcass

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He was very good in the first JLT versus Freo.
I didn't think he was that bad against the Cats, only major knock being he didn't hit the scoreboard. Was 1 of the few who played with any real physicality. Seemed to do a lot of work up the field and probably needs to hold structure better.
 

eddiesmith

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Thought he was a bit quiet tonight but serviceable, I don't think he will ever be the player to regularly kick you bags of goals but he does enough and is such a presence the opposition always have to be wary of him and commit a decent defender or 3 to him at all times
 
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