Matches which featured 10+ (or zero) future coaches?

[Roobs321]

Including both official head coaches and acting/caretaker head coaches, which 44 (or less*) has produced the most future coaches?

There have been a number of lists which have had several future coaches at any one time, but getting them all to make the 22 in a particular week against another similar case isn't easy. There might be potential for as high as 15, but only a third or two thirds take the field.

I did a bit of research back to the early 80s and could only find these (but might be overlooking some).


10/40 - 1983 GF
Haw: Ayres, Buckenara, Eade, K. Judge, C. Knights, L. Matthews, P. Schwab, T. Wallace
Ess: R. Merrett, T. Watson

10/40 - 1984 GF
Ess: M. Harvey, R. Merrett, M. Thompson, T. Watson
Haw: Ayres, R. Eade, K. Judge, L. Matthews, P. Schwab, T. Wallace

10/44 - 1994 Rnd 15
Nth: Blakey, A.Clarkson, Crocker, Laidley, Longmire
Ess: Hardwick, Hird, G. ODonnell, M. Thompson, T. Watson


On the flipside, what about games with ZERO future coaches (touchwood). This might be easier to find. At any one time, there are probably a couple lists either without or only a few injuries away from it. To make it harder, the match has to be 20> years old to give the players sufficient time to start coaching.

For instance, there is this little window in the back half of 2000 where G. McKenna (on the way out) & J. Longmuir (on the way in) aren't taking the field regularly and the Saints also appear without:

0/44 - 2000 Rnd 21 (Freo/WCE); 2000 Rnd 18 (STK/WCE); 2000 Rnd 13 (STK/Freo)

*team line-ups of 20 expanded to 21 in 1994 and 22 in 1998

 

[74561347]

i played shitloads of games as a kid where no one has gone on to coach afl

 

[Underarm]

11/40 in the 72 grand final.

 

[Ron The Bear]

46 of the 228 players who took part in Round 7, 1936 coached one or more senior VFL games (just over 1 in 5).

 

[Dirty Bird]

Best place to look is probably the earlier years of the league. Back when there were player coaches. Maybe just before you got proper coaches. Youd have coaches (and excoaches) players as well as new coaches yet to come

 

[Ron The Bear]

Coaches	Year	Round	Home	Away	Players
13	1967	6	St.K	Rich	40
13	1968	2	Rich	Carl	40
12	1920	9	Syd	Coll	36
12	1920	SF	Fitz	Coll	36
12	1922	PF	Fitz	Ess	36
12	1922	GF	Coll	Fitz	36
12	1932	15	Syd	N.M.	38
12	1933	11	N.M.	Syd	38
12	1967	5	Rich	Haw	40
12	1967	9	Carl	Rich	40
12	1967	SF	Rich	Carl	40
12	1968	4	St.K	Rich	40
12	1968	13	Carl	Rich	40
12	1968	15	Rich	St.K	40
12	1969	8	Rich	Carl	40
12	1969	19	Carl	Rich	40
12	1972	4	Carl	Rich	40
12	1972	SF	Carl	Rich	40
12	1972	GF	Rich	Carl	40
12	1974	8	N.M.	Rich	40
12	1974	19	Rich	N.M.	40
12	1974	SF	Rich	N.M.	40
12	1974	GF	Rich	N.M.	40

 

[Ron The Bear]

On the flipside, what about games with ZERO future coaches (touchwood). This might be easier to find.

Harder to do from a query perspective. The oldest such game of 22 a side is 1998 R11 Haw v Melb.

There are 4 games from 1999, 9 from 2000, and 11 from 2001.

 

[Roobs321]

I just edited the OP. I'd forgotten that there were less than 22 a side. 20 expanded to 21 in 1994 and then 22 in 1998. "44" was just vernacular for the full match line-ups.

 

[Roobs321]

Coaches	Year	Round	Home	Away	Players
13	1967	6	St.K	Rich	40
13	1968	2	Rich	Carl	40
12	1920	9	Syd	Coll	36
12	1920	SF	Fitz	Coll	36
12	1922	PF	Fitz	Ess	36
12	1922	GF	Coll	Fitz	36
12	1932	15	Syd	N.M.	38
12	1933	11	N.M.	Syd	38
12	1967	5	Rich	Haw	40
12	1967	9	Carl	Rich	40
12	1967	SF	Rich	Carl	40
12	1968	4	St.K	Rich	40
12	1968	13	Carl	Rich	40
12	1968	15	Rich	St.K	40
12	1969	8	Rich	Carl	40
12	1969	19	Carl	Rich	40
12	1972	4	Carl	Rich	40
12	1972	SF	Carl	Rich	40
12	1972	GF	Rich	Carl	40
12	1974	8	N.M.	Rich	40
12	1974	19	Rich	N.M.	40
12	1974	SF	Rich	N.M.	40
12	1974	GF	Rich	N.M.	40

Thanks for that, very interesting! I was just going off memory and guesswork clicking around AFL Tables with their list of coaches for reference. I'm not as strong on the average player or coach prior to the 80s. Mostly came down to Ess, North and Hawks, although occasionally you'd approach 4-5 a side for others like the Eagles, Bears, Roys, Magpies or Brisbane Lions if you got lucky. Coupled with those 1970s results (which is getting beyond the captain-coach era), gives a sense of onfield powerhouses becoming player destinations, innovation hubs and coaching factories, successful clubs on the resume, with some lowly sides picking up best-before scraps or forging their own golden age.

Interesting that with the expansion to 16 then 18 clubs as well as expanded line-ups that we haven't yet seen a marked rise. Coaches typically seem to be in the job longer, are afforded rebuilds, and the comp is more equalised. Plans are longer, there are more KPIs to point to as heading in the right direction, coach-board relationships are probably less acrimonious than they used to be. St Kilda appeared the worst offender, post-Jeans they tended to ruthlessly churn through their coaches until giving Alan Richardson more time than he probably deserved.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Interesting that with the expansion to 16 then 18 clubs as well as expanded line-ups that we haven't yet seen a marked rise. Coaches typically seem to be in the job longer, are afforded rebuilds, and the comp is more equalised. Plans are longer, there are more KPIs to point to as heading in the right direction, coach-board relationships are probably less acrimonious than they used to be. St Kilda appeared the worst offender, post-Jeans they tended to ruthlessly churn through their coaches until giving Alan Richardson more time than he probably deserved.

A lot of similarities between Thompson and Hardwick a decade apart. Both clubs resisted the seven-year itch and were rewarded with premierships the following year, and continued success. Thompson (185th game) and Hardwick (182nd) have had the longest waits for a first flag at their original club. Collingwood are pushing this sort of faith to the limit with Buckley up to 205 games. Others like Neale Daniher (223) and Brad Scott

Brad Scott

Age

47

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.6

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

(211) finished without reward. Richardson got to 126.

Need to factor in where the club is beginning from, list-wise, but while there have been a few successes at a second club (e.g. Blight, Malthouse, Smith), typically a premiership coach sees a first flag at his first club and within 4-5 years.

Getting off topic a bit.