Matthew Guy. Can a mediocre leader with a 3rd rate team win government?

[Pakenhamsaint]

The anti-NIMBYs and are starting to become just as annoying as true NIMBYs were in the first place. Not all development is worth approving.

The NIMBYs have themselves to blame on that one. When people spend thier time catastrophising every part of something people tend to get sick of it.

Go look at things like skyrail.
Even now the SRL around Heatherton. The way some are carrying on down there they basically think a train yard is going to make thier homes an unlivable shithole.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The NIMBYs have themselves to blame on that one. When people spend thier time catastrophising every part of something people tend to get sick of it.

Go look at things like skyrail.
Even now the SRL around Heatherton. The way some are carrying on down there they basically think a train yard is going to make thier homes an unlivable shithole.

Not all those who have issues with developments are created equal. Some have legitimate concerns, some don't. Some offer realistic alternative solutions, some don't. Some believe in compromise, some don't.

I believe in considering each case separately and seeing if they have a point, rather throwing them all into the same basket the second they speak up. Then we can ignore the ones who don't have a good argument.

 

[Kwality]

Why is this remarkable? This is often because they have no good alternative, not having neighbourhood shops anymore. People still have to live in society even if they want it to improve in some way. One can advocate for no more major road spending and also want more freight rail, more local freight depots and smaller supermarkets restocked by smaller trucks that aren't a menace on suburban streets.

Are you prepared to pay more to avoid big trucks? How about your neighbour, are you happy for them to pay more ?

Fine to advocate for change but at least think of the unwanted consequences of your nirvana.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Not all those who have issues with developments are created equal. Some have legitimate concerns, some don't. Some offer realistic alternative solutions, some don't. Some believe in compromise, some don't.

I believe in considering each case separately and seeing if they have a point, rather throwing them all into the same basket the second they speak up. Then we can ignore the ones who don't have a good argument.

The ones with a good argument tend to come up with multiple soloutions.

Problem is they get drowned out by the "anywhere but here no ifs of buts" crowd.
They're the type that won't listen to any soloution and they're often the loudest.

To use the SRL as an example the heatherton residents say they will be choked by dust while they build the depot.
They won't accept that there are methods for dust mitigation.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The ones with a good argument tend to come up with multiple soloutions.

Problem is they get drowned out by the "anywhere but here no ifs of buts" crowd.
They're the type that won't listen to any soloution and they're often the loudest.

To use the SRL as an example the heatherton residents say they will be choked by dust while they build the depot.
They won't accept that there are methods for dust mitigation.

Sure, that's an example of people not willing to be constructive. The project in Elsternwick I was referring to, however, did have its detractors proposing alternative solutions.

 

[Pie eyed]

We all know that on exposed form the Libs are struggling .

What chance Guy actually makes it to the election as leader?
Or is the Vic state Liberal party as low on talent as their Federali cousins?

 

[GreyWind]

What chance Guy actually makes it to the election as leader?
Or is the Vic state Liberal party as low on talent as their Federali cousins?

Who would replace him? Crozier? Davis? O'Brien (again and who Guy ousted)? Southwick? Dim Tim crashed his career and car and about the only one with talent in Pesutto lost his seat of Hawthorn at the last election.

The Federal Libs are talentless hacks and compared to the Vic Libs they look marginally competent.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I don't see the appeal of Matthew Guy to anyone except the most rusted-on of Liberal members. Even leaving aside the fraternising with an organised crime figure, his performance as a minister was utterly incompetent, screwing up the Phillip Island rezoning and rubber stamping every apartment development that came across his desk. And he lost the 2018 election badly because he was uninspiring as a leader, fighting pointless culture wars and blaming Africans for every social ill instead of engaging with what the public actually wanted.

What would help the Victorian Liberals most in the long term is a WA-style wipeout. Then the boys club running their party into the ground can be washed away, and everything rebuilt from the ground up.

Or they could just get wiped out, not rebuild, and we can evolve our political discourse.

 

[Saint]

I don't think Guy is incompetent. I think he's done completely as expected.

As planning minister, he approved absolutely everything, practically ruined Fishermens Bend because all the apartments/developments are approved without having to contribute to funding infrastructure. Without the infrastructure funding there are no apartments (can't sell an apartment with no PT or car parking and you can't build a septic tank big enough for these apartments.`

At the last election, he couldn't have a platform. The Grass roots LNP branches are run by religious zealots. So their policies are going to be based on that belief. Closeted racism, anti-education, anti-Govt. Now they're completely a regional party, they've added some moderately decent regional policies which are locally relevant. I've got a feeling this is just because the religious zealotry doesn't extend to the regional/rural seats.

One thing is for certain. Some of the candidates elected by these branches, particularly in the outer suburbs are going to be absolute religious crackers.

Even if Guy was the best potential Premier ever, there's no way the morons they pre-select are going to be able to win Govt, let alone run one. Can you imagine Dim Tim and Dad's Suit James running portfolios like Health or Education?

 

[Saint]

Sure, that's an example of people not willing to be constructive. The project in Elsternwick I was referring to, however, did have its detractors proposing alternative solutions.

The alternative solutions always involve reducing the size. It's got to the point where some developers propose an additional few stories knowing that the residents will just always want less.

Trucks near a school can be easily managed (22 trucks per day can fit around the <2 hours of school peak periods).

Regardless of where you put a supermarket, it's going to have traffic on the street around it. They're complaining about traffic using Selwyn Street because there's a single cultural centre there. Are they proposing an alternative street which would be suitable for this amount of traffic? Also, apparently the 20 trucks will affect pollution in the area (which wouldn't have anything to do with the hundreds of parents driving their kids to school??)

There's a difference between proposing alternative solutions and just wanting less development. In 90+% of cases, they use whatever planning scheme they can find, but are only ever focused on one goal - less development.

They even want a concrete half-street turned into a park for no apparent reason except to prevent development on a small piece of Council land which has been fenced off for decades.

Here's some fun street view content.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The Gas and Fuel, Board of Works and State Electricity would sure be handy right now.

Thanks Jeff and nothing to show for it.

Yep!

Essential services should always be state run. The neo-liberal myth that private companies work more efficiently and competition brings down prices is laughable.

 

[Pessimistic]

The EWL is entirely about enabling rich Lib donors in LNP strongholds like Kew to save a few minutes in airport travel. There's no benefit in it for those living in the west going to the east because there's nothing out there that can't be accessed locally for people in the west (well, maybe IKEA?). The NEL will be perfectly fine for those in further out suburbs like Doncaster and Box Hill and beyond to get to the airport.

LNP strongholds?

 

[The Punter]

The EWL is entirely about enabling rich Lib donors in LNP strongholds like Kew to save a few minutes in airport travel. There's no benefit in it for those living in the west going to the east because there's nothing out there that can't be accessed locally for people in the west (well, maybe IKEA?). The NEL will be perfectly fine for those in further out suburbs like Doncaster and Box Hill and beyond to get to the airport.

People in the West have family in the East and vice versa. The Eastern Freeway itself was built before it was needed, and the Suburban Rail Loop is also a "if you build it, they will come" piece of infrastructure.

Anyway, Andrews ain't building it even if someone else entirely pays for it, and he's proven this.

 

[Pie eyed]

Who would replace him? Crozier? Davis? O'Brien (again and who Guy ousted)? Southwick? Dim Tim crashed his career and car and about the only one with talent in Pesutto lost his seat of Hawthorn at the last election.

The Federal Libs are talentless hacks and compared to the Vic Libs they look marginally competent.

I ask because I am not a local.
Your answer was pretty much what i expected.

It seems to me that 20-30 years ago both Libs and Labor had some reasonable talent, now it seems a wasteland of "less than mediocrity" (is there a word for this?) most evidently on the Liberal side.

 

[Jascave]

I don't think Guy is incompetent. I think he's done completely as expected.

As planning minister, he approved absolutely everything, practically ruined Fishermens Bend because all the apartments/developments are approved without having to contribute to funding infrastructure. Without the infrastructure funding there are no apartments (can't sell an apartment with no PT or car parking and you can't build a septic tank big enough for these apartments.`

At the last election, he couldn't have a platform. The Grass roots LNP branches are run by religious zealots. So their policies are going to be based on that belief. Closeted racism, anti-education, anti-Govt. Now they're completely a regional party, they've added some moderately decent regional policies which are locally relevant. I've got a feeling this is just because the religious zealotry doesn't extend to the regional/rural seats.

One thing is for certain. Some of the candidates elected by these branches, particularly in the outer suburbs are going to be absolute religious crackers.

Even if Guy was the best potential Premier ever, there's no way the morons they pre-select are going to be able to win Govt, let alone run one. Can you imagine Dim Tim and Dad's Suit James running portfolios like Health or Education?

What the Victorian Liberals should've done was to keep Michael O'Brien as leader and wait for the federal election defeat of the Coalition so they could pick someone who had 'Canberra experience' to replace O'Brien as leader. Not Josh Frydenberg (because most Victorians won't forgive nor forget Frydenberg taking pot shots at them during the very bad days of lockdown), but someone like Katie Allen or Tim Wilson.

But in retrospect, the poor performance of the Victorian branch of the Liberals could be traced back to their failure of not doing a complete overhaul of the parliamentry side of the party after the 2014 election loss to Daniel Andrews. In other words, the Vic Liberals should've done a major cleanout of the 'dead woods', build up strength in 2018 (which they didn't-they kept most of the same lineup which crashed to defeat in 2014 and copped the consequences for it in 2018) and focus on 2022 to win the next election.

 

[Pessimistic]

I ask because I am not a local.
Your answer was pretty much what i expected.

It seems to me that 20-30 years ago both Libs and Labor had some reasonable talent, now it seems a wasteland of "less than mediocrity" (is there a word for this?) most evidently on the Liberal side.

It’s become more of a statistical exercise pinning that swinging 2-4% and less of an art or conviction

 

[Saint]

What the Victorian Liberals should've done was to keep Michael O'Brien as leader and wait for the federal election defeat of the Coalition so they could pick someone who had 'Canberra experience' to replace O'Brien as leader. Not Josh Frydenberg (because most Victorians won't forgive nor forget Frydenberg taking pot shots at them during the very bad days of lockdown), but someone like Katie Allen or Tim Wilson.

But in retrospect, the poor performance of the Victorian branch of the Liberals could be traced back to their failure of not doing a complete overhaul of the parliamentry side of the party after the 2014 election loss to Daniel Andrews. In other words, the Vic Liberals should've done a major cleanout of the 'dead woods', build up strength in 2018 (which they didn't-they kept most of the same lineup which crashed to defeat in 2014 and copped the consequences for it in 2018) and focus on 2022 to win the next election.

It's also a buoyant labour market, companies were making easy cash. Anybody with a heartbeat and a Uni degree over the age of 40 is making the kind of money first-term state MPs make. There are not a lot of safe lower-house seats any more to plonk them in. Tim Wilson would be taking a 50% pay cut to move from the Federal Govt to the State parliament as non-Premier. He made way more when the Libs appointed him to the Human Rights Council for him to tell everyone to pull themselves up by their boot-straps and get themselves a cushy Govt job handed to them.

Katie Allen is a well-respected Doctor. She'll make double what she would as a state MP when she joins some gravy-train, maybe the AMA?

Unfortunately, the LNP in Vic is a self-fulfilling prophecy. They're paying peanuts, getting monkeys, and making a clear case that we shouldn't bother paying them more (Timmy could have afforded an Uber anyway).

Their best bet would be to chase good talented young people, but the Young Libs is full of people you wouldn't want your kids associating with and who have the social skills and charisma of deflated basketballs.

Everyone else is too scared to have their history raked over to bother to run for state parliament and take a pay cut.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

What the Victorian Liberals should've done was to keep Michael O'Brien as leader and wait for the federal election defeat of the Coalition so they could pick someone who had 'Canberra experience' to replace O'Brien as leader. Not Josh Frydenberg (because most Victorians won't forgive nor forget Frydenberg taking pot shots at them during the very bad days of lockdown), but someone like Katie Allen or Tim Wilson.

But in retrospect, the poor performance of the Victorian branch of the Liberals could be traced back to their failure of not doing a complete overhaul of the parliamentry side of the party after the 2014 election loss to Daniel Andrews. In other words, the Vic Liberals should've done a major cleanout of the 'dead woods', build up strength in 2018 (which they didn't-they kept most of the same lineup which crashed to defeat in 2014 and copped the consequences for it in 2018) and focus on 2022 to win the next election.

In fairness to Guy, he's actually doing a much better job that his first go. All the gaffs and stupid brain farts are coming from his colleagues

 

[Jascave]

In fairness to Guy, he's actually doing a much better job that his first go. All the gaffs and stupid brain farts are coming from his colleagues

Matthew Guy should've asked the Liberals HQ to do a root and branch cleanout of the parliamentry wing of the party once he had regained the leadership from Michael O'Brien. Get rid of the 'dead wood' like David Davis and promote fresh new talent on the frontbench.

 

[fs88]

In fairness to Guy, he's actually doing a much better job that his first go. All the gaffs and stupid brain farts are coming from his colleagues

Don't underestimate him, he still has some gaffs in him. Absolute nutcase.

'Time to move on': Matthew Guy calls for COVID isolation rules to be relaxed - ABC listen

The Victorian Opposition leader told Raf Epstein after years of the pandemic "about 23 million of us are experts on how we manage COVID now".

www.abc.net.au

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Don't underestimate him, he still has some gaffs in him. Absolute nutcase.

View attachment 1418701

'Time to move on': Matthew Guy calls for COVID isolation rules to be relaxed - ABC listen

The Victorian Opposition leader told Raf Epstein after years of the pandemic "about 23 million of us are experts on how we manage COVID now".

www.abc.net.au

thats not a gaff. thats pushing an argument (whether you agree with it or not), that we are in the "commonsense" phase of managing the pandemic

its smart, and a lot smarter than lining up for photo ops with 800 crosses

 

[Maggie5]

Whilst isolating, Guy might like to think about replacing some of the people around him.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

That dude is so ******* happy with himself

As he should be. And not for the collars.

#battingwayabovehisaverage

 

[Gough]

Whilst isolating, Guy might like to think about replacing some of the people around him.

Conservatives are good like that, if you can find their pressure point and keep at it you can goad them into saying what they actually think.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Conservatives are good like that, if you can find their pressure point and keep at it you can goad them into saying what they actually think.

Is "barking dog" as bad as or worse than "mincing poodle"?