Matthew Guy. Can a mediocre leader with a 3rd rate team win government?

[Ned_Flanders]

Dim Tim is on abc right now as a “private citizen commentator” and was making semi sensible points though also claims he provided policy around health, education and strategy which was “ignored by the powers that be”

assuming it was before 4pm and happy hour has started?

 

[Donakebab]

Now Ryan Smith is a candidate for the leadership he is supporting Renee Heath to garner the religious vote in the party.

Off to a s**t start champ.

 

[Crankyhawk]

assuming it was before 4pm and happy hour has started?

Just after 5. Then had Ryan smith on (prospective state leader) defending having heath and deeming

 

[Crankyhawk]

Now Ryan Smith is a candidate for the leadership he is supporting Renee Heath to garner the religious vote in the party.

Off to a s**t start champ.

I get it though; he doesn’t have that many colleagues in the parliament to start freezing some out, and has to work with them for 4 years.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Now Ryan Smith is a candidate for the leadership he is supporting Renee Heath to garner the religious vote in the party.

Off to a s**t start champ.

so thats two days after the election for the lessons learned to be turfed by

 

[peetoo]

Dim Tim is on abc right now as a “private citizen commentator” and was making semi sensible points though also claims he provided policy around health, education and strategy which was “ignored by the powers that be”

Obviously liked the gig on sky

 

[mighty tiges]

Now Ryan Smith is a candidate for the leadership he is supporting Renee Heath to garner the religious vote in the party.

Off to a s**t start champ.

The Libs clearly haven't learnt a thing from Saturday night's flogging.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

B…b…but Pesutto is a moderate.

LOL

 

[geoffjennings79]

B…b…but Pesutto is a moderate.

LOL

Yes, was only moderately an IPA director!

 

[kalex6251]

add this one to the pesutto file .... what ya think punter?

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

B…b…but Pesutto is a moderate.

LOL

Pesutto is a fraud.

The only reason people believe he is electable, is simply because he is inoffensive in comparison to the other freaks milling about the party.

Has dogshit political instincts, and is just as aggressive with the dogwhistles, scares, extreme political views or tolerance for them, as other Vic Libs. The difference is he gets favourable press and puts on the effect of something between a leafy suburb real-estate agent and a Melbourne Ned Flanders.

 

[peetoo]

The libs know the greens and alp voters will flush him next election by switching to teal

That’s if he even wins this one

 

[kalex6251]

virginia triolli (and the abc in general) has done her best to paint pesutto as a respectable figurehead for the moderate liberal movement in this state ..... ignoring his central involvement in the disgusting 2018 vic liberal campaign ...... have lost a lot of respect for her over this

 

[The Punter]

Despite not being tagged...

The gangs strategy in 2018 was a mistake, and I think that was recognised by law and order not being a campaign issue this time around.

On the other hand, I'm not going to give much weight to the opinions of people for whom there is no acceptable leader of the Liberal Party. I don't worry about criticism from people from whom I would not take advice.

 

[nut]

Despite not being tagged...

The gangs strategy in 2018 was a mistake, and I think that was recognised by law and order not being a campaign issue this time around.

On the other hand, I'm not going to give much weight to the opinions of people for whom there is no acceptable leader of the Liberal Party. I don't worry about criticism from people from whom I would not take advice.

You should put your hand up fur the leadership

 

[Dave]

Despite not being tagged...

The gangs strategy in 2018 was a mistake, and I think that was recognised by law and order not being a campaign issue this time around.

On the other hand, I'm not going to give much weight to the opinions of people for whom there is no acceptable leader of the Liberal Party. I don't worry about criticism from people from whom I would not take advice.

Not sure who that's aimed at, but there are candidates I'd find acceptable. Despite not voting for him, I've met my local (liberal) member a few times and have found him to be pretty reasonable. He's been active in the electorate and has worked to get local projects funded. The only (minor) issue I have is that like the other candidates, he's happy to have the Pentecostal in the party room. However given she was elected if I'm going to advocate for respecting the will of the majority I can't very well call for her exclusion just because I don't agree with her. At the end of the day it's only going to hurt the liberal party IMO.

 

[The Punter]

Not sure who that's aimed at, but there are candidates I'd find acceptable. Despite not voting for him, I've met my local (liberal) member a few times and have found him to be pretty reasonable. He's been active in the electorate and has worked to get local projects funded. The only (minor) issue I have is that like the other candidates, he's happy to have the Pentecostal in the party room. However given she was elected if I'm going to advocate for respecting the will of the majority I can't very well call for her exclusion just because I don't agree with her. At the end of the day it's only going to hurt the liberal party IMO.

I'm happy you find him acceptable, but you didn't vote for him, so despite whatever laudable work he has done, you'd prefer someone else.

And there seems to be a wonderful ignorance of what it is like to be in a large volunteer organisation. You can't approve of every single person. For whatever reason, the Liberal members of Eastern Victoria preselected Renee Heath. She has been duly elected. It's up to the parliamentary party as a whole to kick her out (which is what happened with Finn). There is a pentecostal in the room - she should be judged by her actions rather than her beliefs. I have no idea whether anyone is happy or unhappy Heath is in there, but it is a reality and it needs to be dealt with.

 

[Dave]

I'm happy you find him acceptable, but you didn't vote for him, so despite whatever laudable work he has done, you'd prefer someone else.

And there seems to be a wonderful ignorance of what it is like to be in a large volunteer organisation. You can't approve of every single person. For whatever reason, the Liberal members of Eastern Victoria preselected Renee Heath. She has been duly elected. It's up to the parliamentary party as a whole to kick her out (which is what happened with Finn). There is a pentecostal in the room - she should be judged by her actions rather than her beliefs. I have no idea whether anyone is happy or unhappy Heath is in there, but it is a reality and it needs to be dealt with.

It's more that a vote for him was a vote for Guy and that was a bridge too far.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

B…b…but Pesutto is a moderate.

LOL

Anybody associated with the IPA could never be called a moderate.

They're a bunch of absolute nutters.

The Liberals have no "moderates". They're all long gone.

 

[The Punter]

Not sure who that's aimed at,

Bunk.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Dim Tim is on abc right now as a “private citizen commentator” and was making semi sensible points though also claims he provided policy around health, education and strategy which was “ignored by the powers that be”

assuming it was before 4pm and happy hour has started?

Tim's found it hard enough to dislodge all the fence-sitters. Does he think he can break down the walls as well?

 

[Saint]

The reality of the Liberal Party room is that you have to embrace pentecostalism to win leadership, but pentecostalism will cost you the election. So while you might end up being the leader of the party, the party can never win, so you can't be Premier.

When external people who might make strong candidates see this, they don't join the party. Just like good people don't join the ALP because of the Unions. But unions don't cost the ALP elections.

There's a reason that Pessutto was the only decent candidate for what he'd made into an unsafe seat and by all rights should have had somebody who hadn't lost the seat in the past running.

Had Melissa Lowe run for the Libs, (she would have lost pre-selection, let's be real) she would have won by a huge margin.

 

[The Punter]

The reality of the Liberal Party room is that you have to embrace pentecostalism to win leadership, but pentecostalism will cost you the election. So while you might end up being the leader of the party, the party can never win, so you can't be Premier.

When external people who might make strong candidates see this, they don't join the party. Just like good people don't join the ALP because of the Unions. But unions don't cost the ALP elections.

There's a reason that Pessutto was the only decent candidate for what he'd made into an unsafe seat and by all rights should have had somebody who hadn't lost the seat in the past running.

Had Melissa Lowe run for the Libs, (she would have lost pre-selection, let's be real) she would have won by a huge margin.

There's a lot of inaccurate analysis in this post.

First of all, I don't think Melissa Lowe as a Liberal candidate would have done any better. Whether they like it or not, Teal is a brand now.

Secondly, there is nothing to suggest she would have won or lost a preselection inside the Liberal Party. If Renee Heath had run for preselection in Prahran for the Liberal Party, she may have struggled to get a single vote.

And I don't think one has to embrace pentecostalism to become leader, but perhaps one does have to tolerate it to some degree because that is who the party members have sent you in the party room. It's clear that a trend of Liberal candidates talking about issues to do with gender identity and other associated issues is having a deleterious effect on support levels for the Liberal Party in significant areas of the electorate. For whatever reason party members are not taking sufficient notice of this and keep preselecting fellow travellers, and this is a problem for the Liberal Party electorally.

 

[Gough]

There's a lot of inaccurate analysis in this post.

First of all, I don't think Melissa Lowe as a Liberal candidate would have done any better. Whether they like it or not, Teal is a brand now.

Secondly, there is nothing to suggest she would have won or lost a preselection inside the Liberal Party. If Renee Heath had run for preselection in Prahran for the Liberal Party, she may have struggled to get a single vote.

And I don't think one has to embrace pentecostalism to become leader, but perhaps one does have to tolerate it to some degree because that is who the party members have sent you in the party room. It's clear that a trend of Liberal candidates talking about issues to do with gender identity and other associated issues is having a deleterious effect on support levels for the Liberal Party in significant areas of the electorate. For whatever reason party members are not taking sufficient notice of this and keep preselecting fellow travellers, and this is a problem for the Liberal Party electorally.

Rule of thumb with the Pentecostals, treat them as they would you when they think nobody is watching.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

There's a lot of inaccurate analysis in this post.

First of all, I don't think Melissa Lowe as a Liberal candidate would have done any better. Whether they like it or not, Teal is a brand now.

Secondly, there is nothing to suggest she would have won or lost a preselection inside the Liberal Party. If Renee Heath had run for preselection in Prahran for the Liberal Party, she may have struggled to get a single vote.

And I don't think one has to embrace pentecostalism to become leader, but perhaps one does have to tolerate it to some degree because that is who the party members have sent you in the party room. It's clear that a trend of Liberal candidates talking about issues to do with gender identity and other associated issues is having a deleterious effect on support levels for the Liberal Party in significant areas of the electorate. For whatever reason party members are not taking sufficient notice of this and keep preselecting fellow travellers, and this is a problem for the Liberal Party electorally.

I read an article on this for the nsw preselections. apparently no women successfully beat any male ones (I havent checked if this is right fwiw), and a lot of the reasoning (rightly or wrongly) is being attributed to the Abbott reforms.

In principle I like the idea of branches determining their candidates. BUT i also appreciate that if your branches are mostly 60+ year old white men or those climbing the greasy pole, you may get candidates who represent those people and not the community


One problem both parties face is declining membership makes it sooooo easy to take over a branch and stack it with your peeps. im hoping the vic alp changes help minimize this risk, best of luck to you guys figuring out the answer that is best for you